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Old 03-27-2012, 01:02 AM #1
cmdrsuds
 
 
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Just got Karnivor - lots of questions - building spare parts kit (orings and such)



Don't worry I'm def getting 3way hose

BIG QUESTION:Where can I get a new reg seat for the stock regulator?! - http://paintballgateway.com/wgpinre.html

Let me know what you guys think of my settings! My goal is to be consistent not fast.

(EDIT: settings I found to be the best 3/27/2014)

ZeroB 1.00
TIMING:
Sear On 3.5ms
C Delay 10ms < (too high will waste air)
C On 55ms < (caps ROF eyes off around 10 instead of 12)
C T/Out 0.4sec
C Off 30ms < (raise this value to cap your ROF to your liking)

HOW TO CAP ROF: 1000/(CON+COFF+CDEL)

FILTER:
Ball 3ms
Empty 3ms
Pull 3ms
Release 5ms < (raise only this if your trigger gets bouncy, or cap your ROF)
TT band 75%
TT Toll 15%

What spare parts should I start collecting as I plan on hanging onto it for a long long time!

Spring kits worth it as an upgrade? (NO) I've been told stiff valve and soft hammer springs are best for smooth operation. < (Lug spring is specific to Karnivor's, ONLY the valve spring can be swapped out, not worth the trouble)

eyes? noids? ect.


CONCLUSION: IF ITS NOT BROKE DON'T FIX IT!! Only take the gun apart if there are leaks. I made the mistake of taking it apart to replace orings just for the heck of it - BIG MISTAKE. To lube your internals just remover the HPR and put several drops of oil in the vertical asa. your HPR should be maintained regularly, every 10-15 cases or so
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Old 03-28-2012, 12:09 AM #2
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its ok if you dont know the oring question.. what do you Ecocker owners keep for spares?

if you use the spring kit please share what combo you use
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Old 03-28-2012, 12:28 AM #3
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A lot of people just buy the massive universal Oring kits, the more sizes the better.

The solenoids are an industrial part, and so are the eyes, but the eyes are getting harder and harder to find and most industrial companies have a minimum order of 100+ pieces. You can find the solenoids all over, but the gaskets are the prime piece there.

The stock parts on the Karni are pretty nice, and most people choose to run them stock. They really are a great "stock" autococker. There are a few people who claim the eclipse rams are a little smoother than the old STO's/MP4(not so much on the latter).

Breakbeam eyes are another option, but require additional drilling. If your eyes do burn out, you can use a fast enough hopper and not have any problems save for last ball chop, but that's a common problem in a lot of markers.

Other than a bunch of orings, there's not a lot to go wrong on a karni. And the orings usually only fail with age or lack of use, they don't get eaten like they do in spool valves.

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Old 03-28-2012, 01:39 AM #4
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A lot of people just buy the massive universal Oring kits, the more sizes the better.
Crap I'm terrible at sizing orings by naked eye. Always guess wrong 2- 3 times quickly becomes a major pain!

Anyone know of a source or can anyone check their own orings?
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Old 03-29-2012, 10:30 PM #5
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is setting the reflective eye to the paint you're using that day necessary or are stock settings suitable and just shoot until I run into a problem?
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Old 03-29-2012, 10:32 PM #6
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its nice
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Old 03-30-2012, 02:52 AM #7
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is setting the reflective eye to the paint you're using that day necessary or are stock settings suitable and just shoot until I run into a problem?
pretty much I haven't had a single problem sensing paint colors on any of my eblades on the past 8 years lol
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Old 03-30-2012, 03:11 AM #8
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Black, dark dark blues, and blackish purples are hard for the eye to see.

If it's not black or near black, you'll have little or no problem.
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Old 04-01-2012, 02:31 AM #9
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Well don't go splurging on a gigantic mega ultra Oring kit for an AC -- why? AC's simply do not go through Orings much if at all because most of the Orings are either "non-dynamic" or "non-sealing". The only Oring(s) that is/are "dynamic" is the Ram shaft Oring, and perhaps the bolt as well, but the bolt's Orings don't necessarily need to seal so that is kind of iffy. Now just to play it safe, I would build a 10x kit just to be set for anything. When I mean build, I mean build. Don't buy a pre-built Oring kit from these paintball Oring stores. You can build your own on the cheap and get the Orings that you actually would need and some that you think you would need and in the material that you want. I go here for all of my Oring needs:

http://www.oringsusa.com/catalog/

Any AC owner should have a spring kit as well. A good one (literally) is the Maddmann spring kit. And what you heard regarding a stiff valve spring and a soft main spring is right, it is probably not what you want for efficiency. From what it sounds like, a stiff valve spring in conjunction to a soft main spring like a pump/sniper type setup. For example, a stiff/heavy valve spring is usually installed to reduce the chance of the AC from "farting" (i.e., hammer bouncing) and in conjunction to a soft/light main spring for a smooth pump stroke. For a mechanical AC and ESPECIALLY for electric AC's, what you want is the same relative spring weight combination for the AC in parallel to the input pressure of the HPR (known as "sweet-spotting"). So if you use a soft valve spring, you then use a soft main spring -- if you use a medium valve spring, you use a medium main spring, and so on. This sort of setup limits the stress on the valve in regards to the stem being activated in releasing too little or too much air as well to keep the IVG set at a minimum range to lessen the main spring compression which then also attributes to a lower LPR pressure (or higher depending on the spring configuration). A good article on this as well as other stuff, and are located here:

http://www.endlesspb.com/tech.html

Your eyes will last a long time if cared for properly, that is of course assuming that the electronics don't go bad. So I would put a set of eyes on your list of things to get. The solenoid will also last a long time if cared properly, again that is of course assuming that the electronics don't go bad. Since AC solenoids are so cheap, grab one or two. Also grab a few gaskets as well. I would also get a couple of foots of pneumatic hosing. I can't think of anything else that an AC would need..they are dependable markers that while require tedious maintenance and care, don't really have any issues with replacing parts if cared for properly (although this goes for any other marker as well). So in conclusion:

-Orings
-Springs
-Eyes
-Solenoid
-Solenoid Gaskets
-Pneumatic Hosing

I hope this helps. Let me know if you need something reiterated upon or if you have any questions or further comments,

-Jarred
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Old 04-02-2012, 09:56 PM #10
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great thanks for all the info! Where can I find the sizes of orings on Karnivors? specifically the Tickler LPR. I found a x2 rebuild kit for the HPR on ebay which I think I will go with. And as for the rest of the parts I believe I can find them on here pretty easily...

are clapper noids worth picking up or do those things run for awhile?
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Old 04-03-2012, 03:15 AM #11
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is setting the reflective eye to the paint you're using that day necessary or are stock settings suitable and just shoot until I run into a problem?
i think i kept my eye sensitvity on 59%, and down to 30% for dark paint and that never gave me any issues.

its also pretty uncommon for any of the o-rings in a karni to go bad unless its just sat un-used for years. not many questions on karnis in here anyway thats not just a board setting issue. a few drops of 3-in-1 air tool oil was all mine ever needed. i think part of the reason most karnis never had issues is because they were so good stock nobody ever bothered taking them apart to upgrade anything and thus nothing ever got messed up.
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Old 04-03-2012, 12:11 PM #12
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o rings i think ive only changed my valve body o ring once in all 5 of my cockers. not really a lot of maintnance on cockers just timing after its been sitting.. karnis dont know to much about their stock internals mine is an mq2 shoots terrific.. only upgrade i would reccomend is find 2 eclipse qevs for your ram all i would worry about. since your like me and keep spare parts get a set of factory eclipse eyes mine finally broke bout a week ago on my E2 2k broke wire off back of eye board sucks A$$ since i usually play with my 2k since it halfblock and light. on my 2k it has soft hammer spring maddman spring green and using blue valve spring $8 kit comes with 3valve 3 hammer springs. Other than that please dont cut ur karni keep as original as possible or keep all stock parts u remove.
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Old 04-03-2012, 12:40 PM #13
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You may want to track down a new poppet stem too. Cupseals don't go bad often, but it is good to have one on hand.

I have large industrial o-ring kits, But those are mainly for my other markers.

I also have extra, Rams (if ram shaft breaks), SP 360 QEV's, Bolts, Springs, Clapper noids, Cocking noids, Gaskets, Eyes, Full length AKA pump arms and Circut boards (zero-b and stock E1)
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Old 04-03-2012, 06:19 PM #14
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ram and pump arm good suggestion heard people brake these idk how never had problem but could see it happening to much pressure or gettin a rod in a bind
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Old 04-03-2012, 11:23 PM #15
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Ok, I will look into a spring kit, sounds like a cheap simple upgrade that makes a noticeable difference.

is there a metal noid cover that covers the bottom side? i noticed some paint and dirt up in the there and it seems like something worth covering up.
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Old 04-03-2012, 11:30 PM #16
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Not to my knowledge my karni same way my original e2 noid is fully incased so u can buy new housing switch it out honestly on electro spring not big deal but I switch it back and forth between pump and electro like now I have no working eyes so playing pump like my spring soft but not fart sound it's no where near ccm smooth but works just as good not near expensive or hard to find
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Old 04-04-2012, 12:15 AM #17
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great thanks for all the info! Where can I find the sizes of orings on Karnivors? specifically the Tickler LPR. I found a x2 rebuild kit for the HPR on ebay which I think I will go with. And as for the rest of the parts I believe I can find them on here pretty easily...

are clapper noids worth picking up or do those things run for awhile?
You're welcome -- I will have to get back to you in regards to the exact sizing of the Karnivor's Orings

Clapper noids rarely fail if at all because they seem to be built to last -- I've owned my E1 AC for a good few years now, and the clapper is in relatively good shape. But on the opposite side of the coin, I also have an E1 AC that has some sort of oxidation/rust protruding from the clapper's surface..can't say what it exactly is, but I think it's attributed to my clapper being slow to respond although still usable (sits on the wall anyway)

-Jarred
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Old 04-04-2012, 04:54 AM #18
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Ok, I will look into a spring kit, sounds like a cheap simple upgrade that makes a noticeable difference.

is there a metal noid cover that covers the bottom side? i noticed some paint and dirt up in the there and it seems like something worth covering up.
spring kits are nice if your really into tuning your gun. however on the karni they can be a pain to install because of the ics system. its not any different from any other cocker really just more time consuming since you cant just unscrew the cocking rod. there are 2 small flat spots on the ics rod for a wrench so you can unscrew it from the back block in case you decide to go that route.

if yours has the mp4 ram with the integrated qev's and the ram ever breaks, just get a new ram. they are very hard to take apart without mauling. pretty rare for them to go bad though.

stock karni pump arm is titanium. if you break it your doing something very wrong.

theres really nothing to worry about with the noid being exposed. believe me this gun can take a beating. none of the wgp covers were enclosed but the e2 and i think the ndz ones are. the karnivor one is the only one that has the barbs placed how they are to make the hoses cleaner looking. all the others have all 3 barbs on the top.
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Old 04-04-2012, 01:01 PM #19
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Sick thanks man, you guys have been so much help. I have the older gen ram with visible WGP QEV's which looks awesome. Good to hear I can put my worries about the noid to rest.

How do I remove the regulator btw, I think the collar or whatever has it locked down..

I have noticed my board has pretty low battery life w/ my ZeroB 1.00 board.

WOULD REFLASHING HELP?

WHATS THE LOWEST SEAR ON TIME MOST COCKERS GET?

Would the 9v battery on this page work, I already have the charger... http://www.dueydogpaintball.com/
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Old 04-04-2012, 04:15 PM #20
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Sear on time will very depending on where your hammer lug is set. I set my lug to release at 50% of the clapper noids travel.

Open the grips, Manually cock the gun. Push the disk on the clapper noid up. You'll want it to release the hammer at 50% of the gap.

Once that is set you can start lowering the sear on time. Start at factory fast and work your way down from there. Remember, Too low of a time and it will not release the hammer reliably.

Times will also very depending on the condition of the lug and sear.
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Old 04-04-2012, 07:22 PM #21
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yeah the clapper needs to move almost all the way up to release it so it def needs to be adjusted

what size allen do I use because I cant find the lug set screw, even with grip frame off, to save my life!
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