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Old 03-16-2012, 07:32 PM #1
toty
 
 
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The black holes

Certainly, Scientists discovered a giant black hole at the center of our galaxy which is 4 million times double the sun, Qur’an had referred to these creatures,…

Black holes are terrifying cosmic phenomenon and scientists are trying to discover its secrets and they found that these holes are in our galaxy and they are heavy four million times than the sun!

A group of germen scientists from Max Planck Society had found strong evidence that these holes are existed in our galaxy (Milky Way) and they accurately measured the space between earth and the center of the galaxy.

Before, it was just a kind of estimation because of the billions of stars but now it is a clear reality with no doubt.

For 16 years those scientists performed many studies on 28 stars around the center of Milky Way and by studying the movement of these starts they said that they became able to determine the characteristics of the substance that these stars are moving around.

Professor Reinhard Gentzl head of the research team said “our study offered a strong evidence on the existence of the giant black holes ”



Astronomers accurately measured the space between earth and the center of the galaxy as they found it 27000 light years and they used infrared rays to penetrate the dust clouds

Did Quran pointed to these Black Holes?

Scientists say that these super-massive black holes are dead stars but they are very heavy within very narrow space, they are the cemetery of the stars, swallow, sweep everything coming close to it even light and they are swimming in the space.

As they have very enormous gravity they attract even light and do not reflect it and do not allow any light to leave, so, they are invisible.

Because of the greatness of these creatures, they are one of the very great cosmic phenomena.

Allah, Almighty swears by it (To show how great they are) and by their distinctive characteristics:

(Invisible, swims in the space, sweeps and swallows anything close to it even light).

Quran summed up these attributes in only three words. He almighty says:

“So, verily I swear of that invisibles * that running and sweep” At-Takweer (verses 15,16)

Since Allah, The Almighty swears by these frightful holes, it is a must that these should be discovered by human one day to be evidence of the sincerity of the Quran.

And this discovery must be on the hand of unbelievers to show them a proof for the sincerity of the Quran and to be as an argument on them on the Day of Resurrection.

And of course the appeal is addressed to non-Muslims, because Muslims believe in all that came in the Quran without physical evidence on this.

This means that the Quran text includes three clear miracles:

1. had preceded the Non- Muslims scientists in talking about the black holes phenomenon.

2. Pointed to an implication that these holes exist and will be discovered, as everything that Allah swears by it is necessary to be seen whether by human in this world or in the Hereafter to be a proof on the sincerity of the Quran.

3 - There is an implication that who will discover these holes are non-Muslim, and this is what actually happened, as the Scientists who discovered these holes are non-Muslims, and Allah talked to them as an answer to his swear:

“Verily this is the word of a most honorable Messenger” (At-Takweer-verse19)

Our question for those who denies these miracles: Do black holes have been described with such accuracy, accidentally? Or is there a scientific miracle in the Quran?
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Old 03-16-2012, 07:35 PM #2
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Old 03-16-2012, 07:39 PM #3
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWirrqzeLQk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2uv_HrqIEk
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Old 03-28-2012, 04:40 PM #4
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Thank you for reading the subject and I am waiting for any questions you have
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Old 03-29-2012, 02:14 PM #5
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Can you post references to Qur'an/Hadith that says those who discover the black holes will be non-Muslims?
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Old 03-29-2012, 05:15 PM #6
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“So, verily I swear of that invisibles * that running and sweep” At-Takweer (verses 15,16)
There is nothing in this statement that makes me think the author is referring to black holes. That black holes act like vacuums is pop culture's misunderstanding of their behavior, and if the Qur'an is specifically referencing black holes with this passage then the Qur'an is incorrect.

I would also love to see the portion of text that has been edited out, unless the asterisk is supposed to represent a line break.
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Old 03-31-2012, 12:13 PM #7
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I referenced my version of the English translation of the Qur'an, and I read a different translation of those specific verses.

One translation

"-So I swear by the receding stars
- Those that run their courses and disappear" [Qur'an 81:15-16]

Another version

"-So truly I call to witness the receding stars that hide away
- Go straight, and hide" [Qur'an 81:15-16]

We know that black holes are formed when massive stars collapse at the end of their lives. I could see how one could interpret this to mean that.

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Old 03-31-2012, 05:54 PM #8
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We know that black holes are formed when massive stars collapse at the end of their lives. I could see how one could interpret this to mean that.
Especially once black holes have already been discovered, and you can pretend like that is what they meant. Besides, I think a huge majority of stars don't even form black holes, they just cool off and go dark.

In other news, I can't believe this toty account hasn't been banned. 90% of his posts are copypaste trash and have 0 replies.
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Old 03-31-2012, 07:24 PM #9
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Especially once black holes have already been discovered, and you can pretend like that is what they meant. Besides, I think a huge majority of stars don't even form black holes, they just cool off and go dark.
Can you please tell me how else I'm suppose to interpret this verse? What else does it tell you other than stars die out? It's a pretty specific thing to swear on, stars "running their course" and then "disappearing", which is precisely what we've learned about the life of stars. Was this knowledge, the fact that stars have finite lifetimes, even known by astronomers at that time?

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Old 03-31-2012, 10:18 PM #10
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Was this knowledge, the fact that stars have finite lifetimes, even known by astronomers at that time?
It wouldn't surprise me considering the middle east was the intellectual center of the world for a while, including astronomy and science. There is also the possibility that it could be talking about supernovae (which had been witnessed by that time period)
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Old 04-01-2012, 11:34 AM #11
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Who knows, and even if it was known to astronomers, it must have also been known by an illiterate desert dweller.

The point is, the verse agrees with scientific understanding. In no way can you say it contradicts it. I don't really expect the book to say "I swear by the receding stars, those that fuse hydrogen into helium for millions of years before running out of fuel and collapsing"

The Qur'an also tells us to learn about the Earth and Universe that God created, and we will discover that the Qur'an agrees with it.
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Old 04-01-2012, 12:59 PM #12
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Another verse I believe also can be backed up by science is in Surah Ma'arij, ""The ascending stairways", verse 4

"The angels and the spirit ascend unto him in a Day the measure whereof is (as) fifty thousand years:" [Qur'an 70.4]

This means, while the angels feel that it takes them 1 day, during that time we feel 50,000 years. If this is the case, using Einsteins theory of relativity and time dilation, we can calculate the speed at which the angels must be going in order for this to be true.

t = t0 / sqrt(1-v^2/c^2)
t = 50,000 human years = 16,393,200 earth days
t0 = 1 day for the angels,
v = velocity of the angel
c = 2.99792458 * 10^8 m/s (speed of light)

50,000 human years = 50,000 years * 12 lunar months/year * 27.323 days/lunar month = 16,393,200 earth days

Solving for v, the speed of the angels, we obtain v = (.9999999999999981)*c, so we can essentially say that the angels must travel at the speed of light.

What God also tells us, is that he created angels from light, meaning that if they were to travel, they should also move at the speed of light. According to the Qur'an verse, they do.
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Old 04-02-2012, 07:32 PM #13
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Originally Posted by SuperSupra619 View Post
Can you please tell me how else I'm suppose to interpret this verse?
Right, it says stars die, but there is nothing in those passages to suggest the existence of spacetime-warping black holes.
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Who knows, and even if it was known to astronomers, it must have also been known by an illiterate desert dweller.
I highly doubt the transcribers of the Qu'ran were illiterate.



tl;dr - ambiguous text can always be warped to fit a narrative.
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Old 04-03-2012, 04:45 PM #14
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He means that Mohammed was illiterate. http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9601970.0

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Old 04-03-2012, 09:41 PM #15
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Originally Posted by SuperSupra619 View Post
Can you post references to Qur'an/Hadith that says those who discover the black holes will be non-Muslims?

My dear brother
Thank you

Muslim narrated in his Saheeh and nassaei in the interpretation
At this hadeeth from the hadeeth Ibn msar Kdam
AboutAlwaleed bin Sriya
Amr ibn al-Hurayth said
: I prayed behind the Prophet peace be upon him waxing heard him read, ""(15) So I swear by the retreating stars
(16) Those that run [their courses] and disappear
(17) And by the night as it closes i
(18) And by the dawn when it breathe


That is why I said
Must be
Study the Koran and the certainty of phenomena including
We offer to the world
The theories
And of course will find in the Quran, only a right


Any Muslim, whether ordinary or learner

Knows automatically all scientific phenomena
Because of its presence in the Holy Qur'an has already
Since 1433 year

So
Self-evident and natural

Who does not know?

Non-Muslim

Will he become for him the discovery of this

Due to lack of knowledge of what inside Holy Qur'an

God says in the Holy Qur'an

(53) We will show them Our signs in the horizons and within themselves until it becomes clear to them that it is the truth. But is it not sufficient concerning your Lord that He is, over all things, a Witness
(54) Unquestionably, they are in doubt about the meeting with their Lord. Unquestionably He is, of all things, encompassing
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