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Old 03-15-2012, 08:39 AM #1
Diomedes
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A thought on safety

Something that happened at the field last weekend got me thinking...



Thoughts?
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Old 03-15-2012, 09:29 AM #2
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Good stuff. I've done this many times (enforcing the rules as a player) and I often find myself putting a tone of anger behind my words. Its better to shame someone then let them get hurt. If paintball is my religion then the safety rules are among its commandments and I better not catch anyone sinning in my church.
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Old 03-15-2012, 10:24 AM #3
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Good video!
I do this at my field ALL the time. I play at a field with about 40 acres, but maybe, on a busy day, 30 players. So, needless to say, that field is massive. It's also in the Eastern Plains of Colorado, so it can get hot. As soon as players are hit, it's a great feeling to pull their mask off between games, or even DURING games while sitting in the open on the sidelines! So far, I haven't seen anyone take a face-shot without their mask, but I have been hit on the sidelines just by being in the line of fire.
I constantly yell at players to keep their masks down, and those that I can't get to heed my warnings, I lead by example and keep my mask down and secure at all times, even on the walk back to the staging area.
Good video, and thanks for sharing!
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Old 03-19-2012, 06:52 PM #4
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Good video dude.

I think we all do this or at least hope we do especially if there are younger players who are really interested in the sport. Its better to get rid of bad habits now than later.
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Old 03-19-2012, 07:30 PM #5
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can't see vid on my phone, but I don't understand what is so hard about keeping a mask on that protects your face. I always have to yell at kids for taking their masks off when they walk on the fields. the dads are just as bad and get an attitude when u ask then to put it on. I'm to thr point whete I will ask once, then I tell you . after that I will follow you around screaming about your mask and make an *** of you. its for your protection *******!
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Old 03-20-2012, 06:48 AM #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sh00t2Thrill View Post
Good stuff. I've done this many times (enforcing the rules as a player) and I often find myself putting a tone of anger behind my words. Its better to shame someone then let them get hurt. If paintball is my religion then the safety rules are among its commandments and I better not catch anyone sinning in my church.
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Old 03-20-2012, 06:58 AM #7
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my cousin played for his first time last week. to get to the point every time his fat a** tried to say something he took off his ENTIRE mask. and at that time the b**** and paintballer in me came out so i told him to get off the field but he did not budge so i dragged him off the field and made him sit through safety training again. go paintball!
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I wish paintball was on tv i really do....but im also glad its not......tv makes things mainstream and mainstream things bring in people who want to be cool by doing what every one else does..........i like playing with people who dont mind spending thousands of dollars on paintball not wannabe losers.
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Old 03-20-2012, 11:33 AM #8
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The lady was probably on her period or something. Every field I go to if someone doesn't have their mask on or forgot their barrel cover then players tell them to put whatever back on. It's just about safety. It's not like people are being dicks about it either like "OMG WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU PUT YOUR MASK ON" no people just say like "hey put your mask on" so they don't get shot in the eye. All about safety and he was right to warn him, it's actually worse if you don't warn the player to put their mask on because what if you saw a player with no mask on and you didn't say anything, they may get shot in the eye and then it sucks because you could've prevented that from happening just by reminding them to put their mask on. Anyways he made a good video.
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Old 03-21-2012, 05:53 AM #9
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nutshelling this video for a second: "paintball customers should be responsible for the safe conduct of the paintball field's business - safety is everybody's responsibility"

sounds all good and fine - and I know Ive thought along these lines.

Now substitute McDonalds or Disney World or Wrigley Field for the word Paintball and it starts to sound absurd and over reaching. I mean I really really don't want to be responsible and or liable for the safety of the patrons of McDonald's every time I walk in there for a hamburger. ditto any other real business. As a customer the business is liable/responsible for my safety.. not the other way around.
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Old 03-21-2012, 11:16 AM #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scroadkill View Post
nutshelling this video for a second: "paintball customers should be responsible for the safe conduct of the paintball field's business - safety is everybody's responsibility"

sounds all good and fine - and I know Ive thought along these lines.

Now substitute McDonalds or Disney World or Wrigley Field for the word Paintball and it starts to sound absurd and over reaching. I mean I really really don't want to be responsible and or liable for the safety of the patrons of McDonald's every time I walk in there for a hamburger. ditto any other real business. As a customer the business is liable/responsible for my safety.. not the other way around.
But McDonalds isn't like paintball. Disney World is not like paintball. You don't have IMMEDIATE and potentially SERIOUS consequences if you don't follow the rules. If you want to relate this to another business, how about one where there could be immediate and potentially serious consequences; a bar.

Paintball: Joe goes to the business and partakes in what they are selling (playing paintball)
Bar: Joe goes to the business and partakes in what they are selling (drinking alcohol)

P: Joe says he will be safe (barrel cover on when out of safety area)
B: Joe says he will be safe (he will get a cab to take him home)

P: You see Joe not being safe (barrel cover off)
B: You see Joe not being safe (stumbling drunk out to his car)

Here is where you say the business is responsible. That they should have an employee to match up with every person there so that they can keep an eye on every single person at every single moment. Is there any other way to do this? As the video says, there were about 45 people there, so there should be 45 refs to keep an eye on every person.

P: No one reports Joe or calls him out, his unsafe actions affect someone else (he shoots someone without a mask)
B: No one reports Joe or calls him out, his unsafe actions affect someone else (he runs a red light and hits someone)
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Old 03-21-2012, 11:36 AM #11
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Everyone at our field makes it a priority to watch out for people safety. If you have everyone paying attention, a lot less accidents can happen.
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Old 03-22-2012, 05:42 AM #12
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Everyone at our field makes it a priority to watch out for people safety. If you have everyone paying attention, a lot less accidents can happen.
OK.. Taking this a hair further: If a field has a paid staff of professionally trained refs then the burden of ensuring the safety of the patrons fall on them.

Where paintball epic fails (in general) is 1) paying for a reffing staff 2) professionally training that staff 3) general industry professionalism & standards. I resent the notion that after 25 years the customers are still considered the "catch all".
Baseball has umpires, rules and regs.. and works fine.
Football has referees, rules and regs.. and works fine.
Paintball has its untrained volunteer staffs and therefore relies heavily on the paying customers to ensure safety... which is an epic fail compared to real sports and businesses. The lady mentioned in the video has a valid point.
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Old 03-22-2012, 07:55 AM #13
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OK.. Taking this a hair further: If a field has a paid staff of professionally trained refs then the burden of ensuring the safety of the patrons fall on them.

Where paintball epic fails (in general) is 1) paying for a reffing staff 2) professionally training that staff 3) general industry professionalism & standards. I resent the notion that after 25 years the customers are still considered the "catch all".
Baseball has umpires, rules and regs.. and works fine.
Football has referees, rules and regs.. and works fine.
Paintball has its untrained volunteer staffs and therefore relies heavily on the paying customers to ensure safety... which is an epic fail compared to real sports and businesses. The lady mentioned in the video has a valid point.
Baseball has 1 ball to watch, and there is no more than 4 offensive players on the field, and there are 4 umpires there to watch. Even with that ratio, calls are missed all the time, players come off the base early, tags are missed, etc.

Football has 7 refs, and there are 22 players on the field allowed. There are missed illegal block and holding calls all the time.

So both are bad examples. Just turn those missed calls into safety violations, and you'll get a good idea of how much professional refs would miss.

The ONLY way that all safety issues would be noticed is if there was 1 ref per person. If that is what you want, EACH person would have to pay about $80 to $100 per DAY for just field fees. If you thought paintball was a dying sport before...
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Old 03-22-2012, 08:21 AM #14
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ill tell ya i reffed for almost 10 years(and no not all are Volunteers) i absolutly loved it when players policed them selves with Goggles and Plugs because like you said Our eyes cant be everywhere all the time. SOme customers would get annoyed but people like you are trying to keep this sport going. trust me ive seen it 3 times. it aint pretty to see an eye shot out(only one was their no fault at all to either customer). I do the same thing at games i attend at other fields. and ill scream at them at the top of my lungs so that hopefully a ref will hear it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by liquidfiretibby View Post
can't see vid on my phone, but I don't understand what is so hard about keeping a mask on that protects your face. I always have to yell at kids for taking their masks off when they walk on the fields. the dads are just as bad and get an attitude when u ask then to put it on. I'm to thr point whete I will ask once, then I tell you . after that I will follow you around screaming about your mask and make an *** of you. its for your protection *******!
100% agree but understand this, to some one who doesnt play all the time or is a newbie to the sport(or a fire fighter) it is a VERY un natural feeling to have something pressed against your face like that for extended periods of time. Its a natural reaction to want to rip it off especially if they cant see. I always tried(as a ref) to explain it nicely at least two times. third time they sit their *******es out and my tone with that person is no longer a nice one for most of the day. most of the time they get the hint.
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Old 03-22-2012, 08:47 AM #15
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ill tell ya i reffed for almost 10 years(and no not all are Volunteers) i absolutly loved it when players policed them selves with Goggles and Plugs because like you said Our eyes cant be everywhere all the time. SOme customers would get annoyed but people like you are trying to keep this sport going. trust me ive seen it 3 times. it aint pretty to see an eye shot out(only one was their no fault at all to either customer). I do the same thing at games i attend at other fields. and ill scream at them at the top of my lungs so that hopefully a ref will hear it.
I've been lucky that all the incidents that I've seen have turned out OK. The worst two I've seen were one guy took his mask off and was shot in the cheek, another was in the staging area a guy was shot in the back of the head. While this doesn't sound bad, if he were facing 180 degrees the other way, it would have been VERY bad.
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Old 03-22-2012, 11:29 AM #16
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Two were in the dead zones, no barrel plug aiming it in the air and all. The third was a freak accident. Guy was running down the field, tripped and fell. His goggles got snagge don a branch. All this happened while two guys were shooting and him and then WHAM it happened...
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Old 03-28-2012, 09:47 PM #17
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good video...
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Old 03-29-2012, 06:12 PM #18
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I have had to dive on a kid (or at least near him) to cover his face because his mask falls off and he trips or something to that effect. I got shot everywhere, but I would do that again if it saves someone's eye sight. You only have to see one eye shot, and trust me you will do anything to never see that again.

I agree 150% to everyone keeping their mask on, unfortunately it is not that easy. Even mores so with new players, they tend to be the worst with mask and barrel sock usage, as they do not understand that paintballs go 200 mph, and the eye does not take that kind of impact lightly.

The arguments about refs, it would be really hard to have an industry standard of a ref, not only would field fees go up just due to training alone, but also due to insurance (more things liable to go wrong, the higher the price of insurance.) So as Rasco said field fees would be in the $50+ range, severing the head off of paintball.
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Old 03-31-2012, 05:20 PM #19
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..The arguments about refs, it would be really hard to have an industry standard of a ref, not only would field fees go up just due to training alone, but also due to insurance (more things liable to go wrong, the higher the price of insurance.) So as Rasco said field fees would be in the $50+ range, severing the head off of paintball.
Seems like the industry standard (set by APL) was something like 1 ref per 10 to 12 players, and any real field had at least one NAPRA certified ref on staff to train and mentor the junior refs. (circa 1987-1993). I recall the APL charging per player to insure the fields - managing this with serialized waiver forms - and the first $3 of everyones entry fees back then went to the APL for insurance.
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