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Old 05-02-2012, 02:08 AM #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
Advertising costs money. Very rarely does money spent on advertising in paintball create enough additional participation to justify the expense. Why? Because the money field owners make from each individual player isn't very much, due to the highly competitive atmosphere in paintball, so you need to attract a lot of extra people to pay for the advertising.

Now, if all paintball players would be willing to pay higher prices, then field and store owners would be able to justify more advertising to attract more players. You all ready to pay more?
I am ready to pay more to help local fields out so they can grow and advertise as long as i know the field owner is using the money to good use which 3 out of 4 fields that i go to would do and use the money perfectly.
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Old 05-05-2012, 01:17 AM #86
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......GET RID OF RAMPING....... new players are scared out of the sport the first time they play because of getting mowed down by people that think ramping is something that is nessesary for rec play... if your fingers cannot shoot 20bps then your gun shouldnt shoot 20bps... go back to the old days where there was actual skill involved in playing ... pros using barrel swabs mid game every game due to loaders not keeping up with their fingers... 10 on 10 semi only pro division like the good ol days would be sick! enough of this pull the trigger once shoot 3 balls psp ramping BS.... go back to old school mech guns and then tell me how good you are at paintball....

i remember when the shoebox shockers came out and they were the dm12,ego11s of today... and when hyperframes came out for mags. i was a the store the day they got their first shipment i was 15yrs old then.... thing was insane.... paintball is slowly going on its down hill slide.not fun to go out on a sunday and get hit 20 times in 2 secs every game you play. the sport will never grow if things like psp take over...
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Old 05-05-2012, 11:35 AM #87
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Originally Posted by shaferbruce View Post
......GET RID OF RAMPING....... new players are scared out of the sport the first time they play because of getting mowed down by people that think ramping is something that is nessesary for rec play... if your fingers cannot shoot 20bps then your gun shouldnt shoot 20bps... go back to the old days where there was actual skill involved in playing ... pros using barrel swabs mid game every game due to loaders not keeping up with their fingers... 10 on 10 semi only pro division like the good ol days would be sick! enough of this pull the trigger once shoot 3 balls psp ramping BS.... go back to old school mech guns and then tell me how good you are at paintball....

i remember when the shoebox shockers came out and they were the dm12,ego11s of today... and when hyperframes came out for mags. i was a the store the day they got their first shipment i was 15yrs old then.... thing was insane.... paintball is slowly going on its down hill slide.not fun to go out on a sunday and get hit 20 times in 2 secs every game you play. the sport will never grow if things like psp take over...
I see your point with this argument, but you seem to contradict yourself some. There are PLENTY of people at my field that can do 20 semi, and me and my friends have been asked to turn our guns off ramping, when they were on semi, because we can shoot 12.5 or higher on semi. So instead of being hit 25 time in two seconds, someone would be hit 40 times in 2 seconds. Its all about trigger control. PSP ramp is not one pull three shots right away. I can one ball all day with my gun on ramp. It's just that when your fingers start moving really fast it's one pull three shots, but it only goes up to 12.5 instead of how fast your fingers are moving. How fast your fingers move is really not that important of a skill, and all "ramping" does(modern guns don't truly ramp if my info is correct) is even the playing field.
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Old 05-05-2012, 12:45 PM #88
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GET RID OF DOUCHEBAGS, because we all know that ramping is only to level the playing field in tournaments. Almost Anybody can shoot 12.5 or higher. Is all about trigger control ...
I fixed it for you. You're welcome.

Oh, and you might not get shot 20 times in two seconds if you were a little better. Just sayin'. I'm not saying that there are not people that scare off newbies because they use ramping, but if you had them using uncapped semi, they shoot you just as many times.
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Old 05-05-2012, 01:24 PM #89
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ramping and the price are definitively the 2 things keeping people off the fields
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Old 05-05-2012, 05:29 PM #90
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OK, so a lot of people are saying they would make changes to lower the cost. That's easy to say, but what specifically would you do/change/implement to get the cost to play tournament paintball down?

By the way, that has been the number one complaint sine the beginning of tournament ball. Back when paintballs were $200/case players said the same thing and said things would be a lot better if paintballs would be half the cost. When they were half the cost, they still said the same thing. When the price was half of that, they still said the same thing. When they were half again, they still sad that. Taking inflation into consideration, paintballs are less than 1/10th. of the cost, and it is still the number one complaint. So if we take history into consideration, chances are players are still going to say that participation would improve if the price of paintballs were half of what they are today, but let's assume that doesn't significantly change participation.

So if lowering the price of paintballs isn't going to make things better and really won't lower the overall cost, what changes would you make that will actually lower the cost and increase participation?
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Old 05-07-2012, 01:01 AM #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
OK, so a lot of people are saying they would make changes to lower the cost. That's easy to say, but what specifically would you do/change/implement to get the cost to play tournament paintball down?

By the way, that has been the number one complaint sine the beginning of tournament ball. Back when paintballs were $200/case players said the same thing and said things would be a lot better if paintballs would be half the cost. When they were half the cost, they still said the same thing. When the price was half of that, they still said the same thing. When they were half again, they still sad that. Taking inflation into consideration, paintballs are less than 1/10th. of the cost, and it is still the number one complaint. So if we take history into consideration, chances are players are still going to say that participation would improve if the price of paintballs were half of what they are today, but let's assume that doesn't significantly change participation.

So if lowering the price of paintballs isn't going to make things better and really won't lower the overall cost, what changes would you make that will actually lower the cost and increase participation?
True that but with changing times so do new generations of people come into the sport and thats where it all restarts with the problems of players thing it is too expensive. I for one think the pricings work because for a day going skiing it costs over $100 compared to a day of paintball being that if not less
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Old 05-07-2012, 09:35 AM #92
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True that but with changing times so do new generations of people come into the sport and thats where it all restarts with the problems of players thing it is too expensive. I for one think the pricings work because for a day going skiing it costs over $100 compared to a day of paintball being that if not less
Definitely less for rec players. At my field its $35 for equipment, paint, and air. Rental players don't really have to pay to much.
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Old 05-07-2012, 10:34 AM #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
OK, so a lot of people are saying they would make changes to lower the cost. That's easy to say, but what specifically would you do/change/implement to get the cost to play tournament paintball down?

By the way, that has been the number one complaint sine the beginning of tournament ball. Back when paintballs were $200/case players said the same thing and said things would be a lot better if paintballs would be half the cost. When they were half the cost, they still said the same thing. When the price was half of that, they still said the same thing. When they were half again, they still sad that. Taking inflation into consideration, paintballs are less than 1/10th. of the cost, and it is still the number one complaint. So if we take history into consideration, chances are players are still going to say that participation would improve if the price of paintballs were half of what they are today, but let's assume that doesn't significantly change participation.

So if lowering the price of paintballs isn't going to make things better and really won't lower the overall cost, what changes would you make that will actually lower the cost and increase participation?
You completely dismissed the ROF trend that grew in the opposite direction of paint cost. In 1989 they didn't play PSP 12.5 in a race2 format. So the price COULD come down a little in the paint department. However what alot of players never see is that the higher level of play, the more paint comes down in price. My d2 friends paid something like $34 a case for evil at their last event.

Ramping is GREAT for tournament play. If someone at your local field is blowing up the newbs you should fix that. Tell a ref, field owner, or properly address the perpitrator yourself. Complaining about it on the internet is a very poor solution.
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Old 05-07-2012, 11:06 AM #94
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The price of paintballs isn't that bad when you've got a good local store to give you some deals on it.
The most expensive part to me is the money it takes to actually get into paintball.
The cost of a mini is nothing to someone who has been in paintball a while and has a luxe/ego/geo/clone/dm ect. But to someone who is jut starting out, 325 (new) Sounds crazy for a paintball gun.
Then you've got pants/jersey. -about 100 bucks
Decent Podpack- 30-50 bucks
Pods- ehhh 15 bucks
Decent mask- 50-100 bucks
Decent loader- 70-150
4500 tank- 160

That's just basic stuff to go play and not look like a straight newb in jeans, t shirt, and a co2 gun ha.

And before too long your gonna want the rest
Pads
Barrel
Upgrades for your gun
Tank cover/butt
Gearbag
Sandana/headband
Podcaddy
A rotor/Z2 cause you bought a halo to be cheap
Random cool paintball shizz
And if you've really got the extra money- backup gun

And before too long your going to want to upgrade that mini.

All that said it takes about 1000 bucks to get the basic noob speedballer package.

I know the first time you go play you won't need all that by any means. However, once you really get into it and wanna start playin speedball/woodsball, your gonna have fork out some doughhhhhh to look like the guys in the YouTube video you just watched. And to not be the "kid in the army pants" out there.

That's my input if you like it, sweet. If you don't, well I probably won't look back on this thread so have fun with your b*%#$ing.
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Old 05-07-2012, 12:47 PM #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turnburglar View Post
You completely dismissed the ROF trend that grew in the opposite direction of paint cost. In 1989 they didn't play PSP 12.5 in a race2 format. So the price COULD come down a little in the paint department. However what alot of players never see is that the higher level of play, the more paint comes down in price. My d2 friends paid something like $34 a case for evil at their last event.
No, I didn't mention ROF, because everyone knows it's a given that when paint prices go down, paint consumption goes up. ROF (measured in balls per second) went up due to increase in technology and rule changes allowing it to go up. But ROF (measured in balls per day/outing/ or game) increases and decreases with paintball pricing. But that's the whole point, as paintball prices go down, like many of those ask for that want competitive paintball to get more affordable, it just entices players to buy more to give them a better chance of winning and in the end, so it's no cheaper to compete than it was before the price drop. The only thing that changes is the way players play and practice.
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Old 05-07-2012, 03:12 PM #96
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Originally Posted by stringbuster View Post
The price of paintballs isn't that bad when you've got a good local store to give you some deals on it.
The most expensive part to me is the money it takes to actually get into paintball.
The cost of a mini is nothing to someone who has been in paintball a while and has a luxe/ego/geo/clone/dm ect. But to someone who is jut starting out, 325 (new) Sounds crazy for a paintball gun.
Then you've got pants/jersey. -about 100 bucks
Decent Podpack- 30-50 bucks
Pods- ehhh 15 bucks
Decent mask- 50-100 bucks
Decent loader- 70-150
4500 tank- 160

That's just basic stuff to go play and not look like a straight newb in jeans, t shirt, and a co2 gun ha.

And before too long your gonna want the rest
Pads
Barrel
Upgrades for your gun
Tank cover/butt
Gearbag
Sandana/headband
Podcaddy
A rotor/Z2 cause you bought a halo to be cheap
Random cool paintball shizz
And if you've really got the extra money- backup gun

And before too long your going to want to upgrade that mini.

All that said it takes about 1000 bucks to get the basic noob speedballer package.

I know the first time you go play you won't need all that by any means. However, once you really get into it and wanna start playin speedball/woodsball, your gonna have fork out some doughhhhhh to look like the guys in the YouTube video you just watched. And to not be the "kid in the army pants" out there.

That's my input if you like it, sweet. If you don't, well I probably won't look back on this thread so have fun with your b*%#$ing.
This is a small percentage of the paintball population. You can ask any field owner, and they will tell you that the majority of their customers are people that own a tippman setup and a mask, or rent. Very few people, and only people really dedicated to paintball will spend more than about $250 on gear. There are always exceptions, but mostly.
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Old 05-08-2012, 11:56 PM #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stringbuster View Post
The price of paintballs isn't that bad when you've got a good local store to give you some deals on it.
The most expensive part to me is the money it takes to actually get into paintball.
The cost of a mini is nothing to someone who has been in paintball a while and has a luxe/ego/geo/clone/dm ect. But to someone who is jut starting out, 325 (new) Sounds crazy for a paintball gun.
Then you've got pants/jersey. -about 100 bucks
Decent Podpack- 30-50 bucks
Pods- ehhh 15 bucks
Decent mask- 50-100 bucks
Decent loader- 70-150
4500 tank- 160

That's just basic stuff to go play and not look like a straight newb in jeans, t shirt, and a co2 gun ha.

And before too long your gonna want the rest
Pads
Barrel
Upgrades for your gun
Tank cover/butt
Gearbag
Sandana/headband
Podcaddy
A rotor/Z2 cause you bought a halo to be cheap
Random cool paintball shizz
And if you've really got the extra money- backup gun

And before too long your going to want to upgrade that mini.

All that said it takes about 1000 bucks to get the basic noob speedballer package.

I know the first time you go play you won't need all that by any means. However, once you really get into it and wanna start playin speedball/woodsball, your gonna have fork out some doughhhhhh to look like the guys in the YouTube video you just watched. And to not be the "kid in the army pants" out there.

That's my input if you like it, sweet. If you don't, well I probably won't look back on this thread so have fun with your b*%#$ing.
I couldnt agree with you more!!!

Think about other sports!!!

Lacrosse: 170 for a helmet, gloves 150, cleats 60, elbow pads 60, shoulder pads 190, shaft 120, head 90....

Football is around the same as lacrosse

Skiing and snowboarding is 40-100 for a day on the slopes, ecuipment totals around 600 with bindings, boots, board/skiis, jacket, pants, helmet, goggles

car/kart/etc racing... most expensive

soccer: 60 cleats, 5 socks, 20 shirt, 30 shorts, 25 shin guards,

etc.

there are other expensive sports out there but nothing like paintbll
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Old 05-08-2012, 11:58 PM #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turnburglar View Post
You completely dismissed the ROF trend that grew in the opposite direction of paint cost. In 1989 they didn't play PSP 12.5 in a race2 format. So the price COULD come down a little in the paint department. However what alot of players never see is that the higher level of play, the more paint comes down in price. My d2 friends paid something like $34 a case for evil at their last event.

Ramping is GREAT for tournament play. If someone at your local field is blowing up the newbs you should fix that. Tell a ref, field owner, or properly address the perpitrator yourself. Complaining about it on the internet is a very poor solution.
It's all about the experience and like you said, if someone is lighting noobs up then that is not good.... whenever i go play with my noob friends i decide to take out for the first time i only use 1 finger and mainly use it as a snapping drill when i play with them. they noobs need to feel safe as well as fun!
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Old 05-09-2012, 07:22 AM #99
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I couldnt agree with you more!!!

Think about other sports!!!

Lacrosse: 170 for a helmet, gloves 150, cleats 60, elbow pads 60, shoulder pads 190, shaft 120, head 90....

Football is around the same as lacrosse

Skiing and snowboarding is 40-100 for a day on the slopes, ecuipment totals around 600 with bindings, boots, board/skiis, jacket, pants, helmet, goggles

car/kart/etc racing... most expensive

soccer: 60 cleats, 5 socks, 20 shirt, 30 shorts, 25 shin guards,

etc.

there are other expensive sports out there but nothing like paintbll
Were you hoping to demonstrate that these other sports were more affordable than paintball? You added some of those numbers together before posting, right? That's $840 for participating in Lacrosse. Football is about the same? Another 800+ right there. $600 for skiing equipment?

I'm sorry dude, but if you can't get reasonably "in" to paintball on $600 then there's something wrong. Much less $800. I know that what we do is expensive, but it's not so expensive that $800 wouldn't be enough to buy me all new gear for recball this weekend.

You're also not taking into account the fact that very few players will spend all of that money right up front. Spreading the expenditure out over time reduces the sting significantly. Moreover, (generally) the more a player gets in to the sport and begins to educate themselves, the more savvy they will become in how/when to spend their money. Let's say they discover PBN, and then B/S/T, or maybe they find a hot deal on Craigslist, they might never pay retail for piece of paintball equipment (excluding paint) again.

Finally, no one forces the player to spend money on equipment. He doesn't necessarily need to blow a fortune "keeping up with the Jones-es" as it were. Get a gun, mask, tank, loader, decent pack, a few pods, and maybe a pair of pants, and you've pretty much got all of the paintball kit you're ever going to need. The rest of it is up to the player.
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Old 05-09-2012, 09:28 AM #100
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Most people will start off by buying a $200 tippmann and a $30 mask. Most people don't go out and even buy basic speedball gear until after they have been playing a while.
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Old 05-09-2012, 02:46 PM #101
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Were you hoping to demonstrate that these other sports were more affordable than paintball? You added some of those numbers together before posting, right? That's $840 for participating in Lacrosse. Football is about the same? Another 800+ right there. $600 for skiing equipment?

I'm sorry dude, but if you can't get reasonably "in" to paintball on $600 then there's something wrong. Much less $800. I know that what we do is expensive, but it's not so expensive that $800 wouldn't be enough to buy me all new gear for recball this weekend.

You're also not taking into account the fact that very few players will spend all of that money right up front. Spreading the expenditure out over time reduces the sting significantly. Moreover, (generally) the more a player gets in to the sport and begins to educate themselves, the more savvy they will become in how/when to spend their money. Let's say they discover PBN, and then B/S/T, or maybe they find a hot deal on Craigslist, they might never pay retail for piece of paintball equipment (excluding paint) again.

Finally, no one forces the player to spend money on equipment. He doesn't necessarily need to blow a fortune "keeping up with the Jones-es" as it were. Get a gun, mask, tank, loader, decent pack, a few pods, and maybe a pair of pants, and you've pretty much got all of the paintball kit you're ever going to need. The rest of it is up to the player.
I posted the prices just because people were talking about paintball being pricey yet other sports can be just as pricey year after year. I understand all the discounts people can get but i was aiming for opening the viewpoints on this thread to not just look at paintball and compare it to paintball but compare it to other sports and all the factors that are included
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Old 05-09-2012, 07:04 PM #102
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Comparing to other sports(this is my experience, let me know if I should change something). This is a comparison of prices on average. Very few sports, just examples.

Football<Paintball
Soccer<Paintball
Baseball<Paintball
Basketball<Paintball
Hockey<=Paintball???
Lacrosse<=Paintball???
Skiing>Paintball
Snowboarding>Paintball
Go-Kart Racing>Paintball

SO a trend I seem to notice is the more mainstream a sport is, the lower the cost. The more extreme/out of the ordinary a sport is, the higher the cost(btw was not sure about price of hockey or lacrosse, but figured less than or equal to was about right). Basic rules of supply and demand say that the more people that play, the cheaper it will become(that or companies start raking it in ). I think for adrenaline junkies paintball is potentially one of the cheaper sports. With anything it all depends on what you are buying though. Soccer, one of the cheapest, could potentially become the most expensive if you buy the world cup championship ball and Renaldo's cleats. The thing you have to keep in mind is that most people on the nation are hardcore, expensiver gear, tournament types. So ya for us our stuff might cost upwards of 1K, but I started with a $70 Wal-mart gun and a $30 dollar case of paint that lasted me a couple months. All I am saying is the price is what you make it.
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Old 05-09-2012, 09:40 PM #103
Coenen
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I'd point out that the "mainstream" sports are cheap b/c they are both simple and accessible.

You don't need much besides a ball and someone with a decent-ish arm to go to any reasonably empty space and play football. Same with soccer, you need a ball, and something to act as a goal. Basketball, flat surface, hoop, done. Baseball, bat, ball, glove.

The other thing is that those sports don't necessarily have to be played in what would be considered an "organized" way. Any of us could probably make a couple phone calls and have a group together for Football, Basketball, Baseball or Soccer tomorrow, for free at any of several local facilities. I doubt any off us are just strapping on our gear and heading down to the park to play a few games of pick-up paintball the way we might for Basketball or Football. I'm guessing most everybody here remembers playing makeshift baseball as a kid without so much as a backstop or a diamond.

That ease of participation is ultimately what keeps those sports on top.
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Last edited by Coenen : 05-09-2012 at 09:42 PM.
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Old 05-10-2012, 07:37 AM #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coenen View Post
I'd point out that the "mainstream" sports are cheap b/c they are both simple and accessible.

You don't need much besides a ball and someone with a decent-ish arm to go to any reasonably empty space and play football. Same with soccer, you need a ball, and something to act as a goal. Basketball, flat surface, hoop, done. Baseball, bat, ball, glove.

The other thing is that those sports don't necessarily have to be played in what would be considered an "organized" way. Any of us could probably make a couple phone calls and have a group together for Football, Basketball, Baseball or Soccer tomorrow, for free at any of several local facilities. I doubt any off us are just strapping on our gear and heading down to the park to play a few games of pick-up paintball the way we might for Basketball or Football. I'm guessing most everybody here remembers playing makeshift baseball as a kid without so much as a backstop or a diamond.

That ease of participation is ultimately what keeps those sports on top.
I was thinking so hard a few days ago about this argument, but I just couldn't put it to good words -____- Well said, though.
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Old 05-10-2012, 05:47 PM #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coenen View Post
I'd point out that the "mainstream" sports are cheap b/c they are both simple and accessible.

You don't need much besides a ball and someone with a decent-ish arm to go to any reasonably empty space and play football. Same with soccer, you need a ball, and something to act as a goal. Basketball, flat surface, hoop, done. Baseball, bat, ball, glove.

The other thing is that those sports don't necessarily have to be played in what would be considered an "organized" way. Any of us could probably make a couple phone calls and have a group together for Football, Basketball, Baseball or Soccer tomorrow, for free at any of several local facilities. I doubt any off us are just strapping on our gear and heading down to the park to play a few games of pick-up paintball the way we might for Basketball or Football. I'm guessing most everybody here remembers playing makeshift baseball as a kid without so much as a backstop or a diamond.

That ease of participation is ultimately what keeps those sports on top.


Exactly! well said
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