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Old 06-25-2012, 12:50 PM #64
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What are your exact settings for your Axe with this tune? Pressure, fluctuating between how much FPS when chroning, and dwell. Just curious.
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Old 06-25-2012, 03:47 PM #65
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What are your exact settings for your Axe with this tune? Pressure, fluctuating between how much FPS when chroning, and dwell. Just curious.
the axe is at a dwell of 3.5ms the input pressure is about 150ish and the back cap is turned about 1.5 turns out. the axe has been pretty consistent; usually in +/- range of 5 or 6 fps, once in a while (usually once every 10 to 15) it'll spit out a screwy one aroun 260/270ish. i had some issues with the input pressure creeping up but that seems to have fixed itself.
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Old 06-25-2012, 03:49 PM #66
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I'd say your first order of business would be to test your Axe without the NDZ threadsaver on it. If everything is OK, then the threadsaver is your problem.
unfortunately removing the thread saver didn't change much of anything:/
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Old 06-26-2012, 10:57 AM #67
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How high does the fps get for you guys before it plateaus? Mine was up at 330 and was still increasing...
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Old 06-26-2012, 11:22 AM #68
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It kills me how many people here think that the barrel has no effect on velocity. Guys if your running the stock barrel it's bore is .691 and if you are shooting small bore paint at .677 you will have problems getting your velocity up. Now if you match your paint and barrel you will get higher fps! Just remember that running a barrel tighter then the ball you run the risk of barrel breaks.
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Old 06-26-2012, 02:17 PM #69
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How high does the fps get for you guys before it plateaus? Mine was up at 330 and was still increasing...

from what i remember the axe was immediately at around 310/315ish when dropped the dwell to 3.5 ms after following the method, i only took it down from there. i hadn't really thought about seeing how high it would go.

the mini i can only get to up to 255 so far.
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Old 06-26-2012, 02:18 PM #70
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It kills me how many people here think that the barrel has no effect on velocity. Guys if your running the stock barrel it's bore is .691 and if you are shooting small bore paint at .677 you will have problems getting your velocity up. Now if you match your paint and barrel you will get higher fps! Just remember that running a barrel tighter then the ball you run the risk of barrel breaks.
this is true
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Old 06-27-2012, 09:11 PM #71
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I'm gonna try this on my TM7 and my bro's TM15. Right now I'm running stock settings except ROF at 18 BPS at 190 psi. Last event I got a hopper and 6 pods on one fill which isn't bad just want a smoother shot.
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Old 07-06-2012, 12:15 PM #72
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Easy guide to follow!! I got my gun down to 150psi and didnt mess with the dwell much. Velocity was 1 1/8 turns. Fps was generally around 268-272 with some outliers. I would sometimes see numbers as low at 240 and as high as 290. I just got my lurker bolt last night and tried this guide today. Is there a breaking in period for tuning ones gun? Ive got about 4 cases through mine in total. And about 140 shots one the new bolt.
Also is it okay/safe or recommended to try someone elses settings or should i always tune my gun using the guide.
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Old 07-06-2012, 05:08 PM #73
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Would dropping your dwell: 29 blinks (7ms stock I think) to 20 blinks (I think thats 5ms) decrease efficiency? I was just playing around with settings and the only thing I changed was the dwell and I could watch my psi drop on my tank prob like 1k psi per pod just from decreasing the dwell!
That was yesterday...
Today, I reset the board to factory, followed the steps and it seems to be shooting fine (unfortunately I ran out of paint). Right now, with my boss v2 bolt & stock spring, my pressure is a little over 160psi, back cap is about 1.5 turns out, dwell is at 23 blinks (i think thats about 5.5ms) and Im chrono-ing at about 285-290 +/-5 but Im getting fsdo at about 260. However, I shot a hopper and the needle on my tank barely moved Once I get more paint, Ill continue fine tuning, but thanks for the tutorial. Im actually thinking of making my axe my go-to gun and putting my geo2 and g6r on the back-up roster
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Old 07-06-2012, 09:29 PM #74
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OK reading this tread has inspired me to try some stuff out. I own two axes and I have them set very different right now ill make a point to shoot both tomorrow to see any difference.

So far this feels the softest
Stock Axe stock bolt.

I very high dwell of 9.0
Reg. set at 150 (a lower psi then my gun with a Boss bolt)
back cap just less then 1 full turn.
semi loose fit barrel bore. (ball could roll)

This setting chronographed consistent 285 +/- 3 with the same Reball over and over. If I had a "clock" chrono I could check shot consistency but I dont so im going to use a stock Axe with default settings for the control to see if it really feels better.
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Old 07-07-2012, 02:13 PM #75
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Personally, I've had good success with higher dwell and lower pressure, than what is recommended.

However, it is a fine line.

Essentially, you are playing around with the timing of the bolt, and if the pressure gets too low, you will get problems with the poppet valve not resetting properly after each shot or the bolt not returning fully.

So, while you get a softer shot, by feel, you are essentially in jeopardy of breaking more paint, because the bolt timing is off.

It's quite like the problem with the lighter aftermarket bolts..... while you feel the gun shooting softer, because less mass is moving, the bolt speed is increased significantly, which means the bolt is hitting the paint with greater force...... so feeling soft, and being gentle on paint, is not always the same thing
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Old 07-07-2012, 05:25 PM #76
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OK reading this tread has inspired me to try some stuff out. I own two axes and I have them set very different right now ill make a point to shoot both tomorrow to see any difference.

So far this feels the softest
Stock Axe stock bolt.

I very high dwell of 9.0
Reg. set at 150 (a lower psi then my gun with a Boss bolt)
back cap just less then 1 full turn.
semi loose fit barrel bore. (ball could roll)

This setting chronographed consistent 285 +/- 3 with the same Reball over and over. If I had a "clock" chrono I could check shot consistency but I dont so im going to use a stock Axe with default settings for the control to see if it really feels better.
Well today went well with this setting. However the paint I was shooting seemed to be very small to the bore I had to turn the reg up to about 165 ish maybe 170ish to get around 280s.
But the marker shot well It did feel smoother then the axe with all the stock settings. But I cant confirm that one setting is softer then another on the actual ball. But this is the setting im going to keep it on.
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Old 07-15-2012, 07:41 PM #77
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i tried using this method to tune my gun however as i was my gun was as i backed my back cap out i plateaued at 320 (+- 20) then lowered to 284 (+-20) and did the same for the dwell... the problem why am i having such large swings with +-20 my reg set at 180 with dwell of 8 using a .679 egienbarrel and stock bolt ... also with such large swings of speed i noticed my accuracy left something to be desired... also the gun only had 1 tank ran through it to break in the spring... could that be the reason why im having such large swings? (i ended up going through 3 more today should i start seeing more consistantly closer chronos??)
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Old 07-15-2012, 07:58 PM #78
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Originally Posted by Yellowsno View Post
i tried using this method to tune my gun however as i was my gun was as i backed my back cap out i plateaued at 320 (+- 20) then lowered to 284 (+-20) and did the same for the dwell... the problem why am i having such large swings with +-20 my reg set at 180 with dwell of 8 using a .679 egienbarrel and stock bolt ... also with such large swings of speed i noticed my accuracy left something to be desired... also the gun only had 1 tank ran through it to break in the spring... could that be the reason why im having such large swings? (i ended up going through 3 more today should i start seeing more consistantly closer chronos??)
First and foremost, it is essential you use good quality paint for this.
Ask around at your field, if others using the same paint, with other guns, are getting the same velocity fluctuations.
In my gun, with good high grade paint, I get 6-7 FPS fluctuations, but with low grade practice paint, it's around 20-25 FPS (don't just trust the price of the paint, some tournament grade paint also have large velocity fluctuations).

Secondly, if you are not too concerned with efficiency, I'd try overboring, rather than matching the paint to the barrel. Unless you are using top quality paint, with great ball to ball consistency (size+weight)), overboring will give you less fluctuation, but yes, cost you on efficiency.

Third, if none of the first two items are relevant to your situation, the next thing you need to do, is to clean and re-lube your poppet. Especially on a new gun, you need to do this regularly (I did it once a week at first, and during events daily), as at first, the gun will create a lot of residue that is lodged around the poppet o-ring, which will cause pressure (and in turn velocity) fluctuations.

Fourth, if you are using a low pressure air system, you might try borrowing a HP one and testing your gun with it. The gun does feel less "smooth" with a HP airsystem, but it can also be a little more consistent, so if you care more about shot to shot consistency, than how it "feels", go with a HP system (700-800 psi output). - Yes, I know many recommend a LP airsystem, but the Axe is not a gun that "needs" a LP system (it regulates down to the 180-200 psi just fine with a HP system anyway).... it just feels better with one (a little less kick).

Fifth, and in reply to your question: Yes, like any gun, you should expect a break in period of around 20,000 rounds, until you see your gun stabilise at its natural level.

Enjoy
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Old 07-15-2012, 08:02 PM #79
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Really weird that you have such large swings. I used this same method first with lurker bolt, took it out and used stock for more consistency. I couldnt get a consistent +300 fps but when i lowered the pressure from 180 to 140ish dwell 8 i was getting 273-283 with the most common number being 276 i think it was.
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Old 07-15-2012, 11:26 PM #80
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First and foremost, it is essential you use good quality paint for this.
Ask around at your field, if others using the same paint, with other guns, are getting the same velocity fluctuations.
In my gun, with good high grade paint, I get 6-7 FPS fluctuations, but with low grade practice paint, it's around 20-25 FPS (don't just trust the price of the paint, some tournament grade paint also have large velocity fluctuations).

Secondly, if you are not too concerned with efficiency, I'd try overboring, rather than matching the paint to the barrel. Unless you are using top quality paint, with great ball to ball consistency (size+weight)), overboring will give you less fluctuation, but yes, cost you on efficiency.

Third, if none of the first two items are relevant to your situation, the next thing you need to do, is to clean and re-lube your poppet. Especially on a new gun, you need to do this regularly (I did it once a week at first, and during events daily), as at first, the gun will create a lot of residue that is lodged around the poppet o-ring, which will cause pressure (and in turn velocity) fluctuations.

Fourth, if you are using a low pressure air system, you might try borrowing a HP one and testing your gun with it. The gun does feel less "smooth" with a HP airsystem, but it can also be a little more consistent, so if you care more about shot to shot consistency, than how it "feels", go with a HP system (700-800 psi output). - Yes, I know many recommend a LP airsystem, but the Axe is not a gun that "needs" a LP system (it regulates down to the 180-200 psi just fine with a HP system anyway).... it just feels better with one (a little less kick).

Fifth, and in reply to your question: Yes, like any gun, you should expect a break in period of around 20,000 rounds, until you see your gun stabilise at its natural level.

Enjoy
Imma Try lubing the poppet... I only lubed up the bolt and everything else just not the poppet... The paint I was using was field paint its empire but I'm not sure which If I remember correctly the box said premium but from experience I can call my poo premium but it doesn't change the fact that it's poo if u get the drift. I do noticed a slight kick in the beginning but as the day wore on it wasn't as bad... I didn't chrono at the end of the day to see if there was a diffence as I think maybe 4000 balls went through the gun so far...(2000 playing today and maybe 2000 when dry firing using the breaking method found in one of the stickies)... And dont know anyone with a hp air system nor do I know what that is...On a side note I may have underbored by a lot because i went straight for the .679 eginbarrel and after few rounds I helped my friend by letting him borrow my .684 and the ball had a tight squeez through then.679 but there was also a squeez in the .684... Just not as tight

On a side note mini itself... Awesome.... Definatly glad I upgraded to the mini... The walls of paint I laid I never could have done in my old gun and definatly a different feel
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Old 07-16-2012, 08:51 AM #81
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Originally Posted by Yellowsno View Post
Imma Try lubing the poppet... I only lubed up the bolt and everything else just not the poppet... The paint I was using was field paint its empire but I'm not sure which If I remember correctly the box said premium but from experience I can call my poo premium but it doesn't change the fact that it's poo if u get the drift. I do noticed a slight kick in the beginning but as the day wore on it wasn't as bad... I didn't chrono at the end of the day to see if there was a diffence as I think maybe 4000 balls went through the gun so far...(2000 playing today and maybe 2000 when dry firing using the breaking method found in one of the stickies)... And dont know anyone with a hp air system nor do I know what that is...On a side note I may have underbored by a lot because i went straight for the .679 eginbarrel and after few rounds I helped my friend by letting him borrow my .684 and the ball had a tight squeez through then.679 but there was also a squeez in the .684... Just not as tight

On a side note mini itself... Awesome.... Definatly glad I upgraded to the mini... The walls of paint I laid I never could have done in my old gun and definatly a different feel
HP (High Pressure) Airsystem is the most common one - output pressure off 7-800 PSI

Didn't know if you were running a LP system, like a CP or Ninja one
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Old 07-16-2012, 01:49 PM #82
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Just wanted to say thanks for posting this. Just picked up my Axe last Friday and I love being able to tinker with my gun. This will definitely help in letting me do so.
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Old 07-16-2012, 02:04 PM #83
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The paint I was using was field paint its empire but I'm not sure which If I remember correctly the box said premium but from experience I can call my poo premium but it doesn't change the fact that it's poo if u get the drift.
OT - but now you mentioned it:

Most mid- and highgrade paint is awesome leaving the factory.

What makes a lot of difference to the end user experience, is how it is transported and stored, both by the manufacturer, the store and the end user.

Generally, paint stored or transported under 60 degrees (Fahrenheit) or above 70 degrees, will be less than perfect in terms of shot to shot consistency.... Though, if you are looking for it to be brittle, cooling it to 50-55 degrees is the way to go (many tournament teams have coolings bags for their paint at events, for this very reason, and at events, paint trucks will also be around 50 degrees for the high grade stuff to be brittle).

Another thing is how the store stacks it and how long they have it in stock.... a box that has been sitting at the bottom of a pallet for a month, and has never been rotated, will have a tendency to be inconsistent also, due to the paint becoming slightly misshaped.
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Old 07-16-2012, 03:07 PM #84
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OT - but now you mentioned it:

Most mid- and highgrade paint is awesome leaving the factory.

What makes a lot of difference to the end user experience, is how it is transported and stored, both by the manufacturer, the store and the end user.

Generally, paint stored or transported under 60 degrees (Fahrenheit) or above 70 degrees, will be less than perfect in terms of shot to shot consistency.... Though, if you are looking for it to be brittle, cooling it to 50-55 degrees is the way to go (many tournament teams have coolings bags for their paint at events, for this very reason, and at events, paint trucks will also be around 50 degrees for the high grade stuff to be brittle).

Another thing is how the store stacks it and how long they have it in stock.... a box that has been sitting at the bottom of a pallet for a month, and has never been rotated, will have a tendency to be inconsistent also, due to the paint becoming slightly misshaped.

hummm... may be why one ball got stuck in the barrel at one point and why i had to clear up a jam in the barrel (that ball lodged in there good... and i thought it was a chop at first till i walked off to really take a look found 3 balls behind the one ball that started the mess)

i actually kept one of the balls cuz it was in my rotor when i cleaned out my gear after use the line down the middle of the ball (its half orange half white) is crooked so maybe its the balls causing the inconsistancies... but i hate to think that much of a flux...

ohh and yea they had boxes of paint stacked to the ceiling (wish there were more local byop fields here)
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