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Old 02-22-2012, 08:46 PM #1
turnburglar
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how do angel folk feel about barrels

Hey angel folk.

How do you feel about paint to bore match? There seems to be many theories out there on what's best. The most represented one I have seen is underboring. Others claim overboring gives superior accuracy and reduced barrel breaks. So how do you guys feel and what barrels threaded for an a1 give your desired results.

Right now I am running my stock. 691 back with gi sports 1 star? I think it bores around. 685 or a hair smaller. Typically my paint is dimpled and outs shape so I don't think underboring would help much.
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Old 02-22-2012, 08:59 PM #2
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Underboring matters if say you shoot autocockers or any other closed bolt guns and if you want to have the best efficiency. Theory behind underboring is better efficiency = better accuracy.

Over boring works fine as long as you don't have any balls that are close to fitting the bore as then you'll notice your fps jumping around. I overbore on my angel cuz I don't have any other small bored barrels lol. It seems to work really well though.
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Old 02-22-2012, 10:09 PM #3
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If you're underboring it's going to take more pressure to propel your ball at your desired velocity. Overboring suffers the same problem. You're sacrificing efficiency in either case, and underboring has never gotten me anything but more barrel breaks in my experience.

The "blow test" method is still the best way to match your paint and bore, IMO. Put a ball in your barrel back. If it drops through, the bore is too large. If you turn blue trying to blow it through, the bore is too small. If a puff of air will pop the ball through the back, it's just right.
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Old 02-22-2012, 10:22 PM #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.strangelove
The "blow test" method is still the best way to match your paint and bore, IMO. Put a ball in your barrel back. If it drops through, the bore is too large. If you turn blue trying to blow it through, the bore is too small. If a puff of air will pop the ball through the back, it's just right.
this is the method that I currently use. Dropping a few balls through my barrel kit only takes a few seconds. I'm not going to stress over finding the prefect match. I'd rather waste a bit of air than worry about breaking paint in the barrel
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Old 02-22-2012, 10:28 PM #5
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this is the method that I currently use. Dropping a few balls through my barrel kit only takes a few seconds. I'm not going to stress over finding the prefect match. I'd rather waste a bit of air than worry about breaking paint in the barrel
^ this.

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Old 02-22-2012, 10:40 PM #6
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Now what is your guys opinion on control bore lengths? Most 2 piece or barrel kits have a huge bore for the tip meaning the only part that interacts is the back. With that said I noticed some companies producing barrels with VERY short control bores. Is there science to this or is it simply cutting costs.
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Old 02-22-2012, 10:55 PM #7
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IIRC, the Tom Kaye experiments were extrapolated to indicate a 6-8" control bore being ideal, but it's always been highly disputed.
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Old 02-22-2012, 11:09 PM #8
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IIRC, the Tom Kaye experiments were extrapolated to indicate a 6-8" control bore being ideal, but it's always been highly disputed.
That's how I have always felt yet there are multiple kits out with very short control bores.

When I am ready I think freak boring my. 695 back sounds like the most effective solution.
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Old 02-22-2012, 11:48 PM #9
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I've never had any trouble with Freak backs/inserts, and boring the stock barrel looks good aesthetically too. Not a bad way to go these days with the relative scarcity of A1-threaded barrels.
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Old 02-23-2012, 07:03 AM #10
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So do you guys disregard cockerpunk's underboring/overboring tests? I think he also did one on the correspondence between underboring and barrel breaks (broke less). Food for thought.
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Old 02-23-2012, 08:01 AM #11
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So do you guys disregard cockerpunk's underboring/overboring tests? I think he also did one on the correspondence between underboring and barrel breaks (broke less). Food for thought.
Can you link to them? I missed them somehow.

Thanks!
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Old 02-23-2012, 08:38 AM #12
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No, he can't link to them, because we don't send anyone to the place the information is stored. There's more than a few good reasons.

I've always thought the best possible thing to do with regards to bore sizes in paintball is to try it out yourself, and see what works for you and your setup. I've found that the method dr.strangelove described has always been, and continues to be, the gold standard in picking your barrel size for the day/event.
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Old 02-23-2012, 09:06 AM #13
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No, he can't link to them, because we don't send anyone to the place the information is stored. There's more than a few good reasons.

I've always thought the best possible thing to do with regards to bore sizes in paintball is to try it out yourself, and see what works for you and your setup. I've found that the method dr.strangelove described has always been, and continues to be, the gold standard in picking your barrel size for the day/event.
Ah, my mistake. I wasn't aware that the information in question wasn't on PBN.
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Old 02-23-2012, 11:45 AM #14
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Personally I am weary of Tom Kayes test results. Alot of it was accurate, however some......not so much.

I was part of the **** storm that ensued on AO when such information went public. I want to say 05-06?
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Old 02-23-2012, 12:13 PM #15
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I've got it on good authority that 7"-8" is indeed the optimal bore length, from better funded testing than most of us can hope to accomplish.
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Old 02-23-2012, 12:40 PM #16
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I guess the concept behind the tests I mentioned was that underboring or overboring allows the paintballs to have a more consistent resistance on the inside of the barrel and thus yielding a more consistent FPS... which has a tighter shot grouping. Using the traditional sizing technique or the blow test was shown to have less consistent resistance because the slightly varied paintball sizes either dragged or floated through the barrel, which caused a less consistent FPS (and thereby looser shot grouping).

You can find it all on the tube, but take it for what it's worth... it's not my absolute belief. Their math seemed pretty reasonable.

My opinion: I usually use two sizes above or two below the blow test given the quality of paint and the weather.
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Old 02-23-2012, 02:01 PM #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.strangelove View Post
IIRC, the Tom Kaye experiments were extrapolated to indicate a 6-8" control bore being ideal, but it's always been highly disputed.
ideal for what? I recall his results showed 6-8" control bore is ideal for efficiency, and i believe it was only 2" for accuracy.
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Old 02-23-2012, 02:39 PM #18
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Inconsistent paint is going to be inconsistent regardless of what barrel you put it through. Granted, you will notice it less when you're pushing a ball with, say, 30% more pressure through a barrel too small for it, because the ball is always going to be touching the interior of the barrel. But then, you're also using 30% more pressure.

Bear in mind what you're shooting: it's an out-of-round sphere of gelatin filled with water based paint. Personally, I don't think the efficiency hit is worth whatever additional "accuracy" you might achieve.
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Old 02-23-2012, 02:43 PM #19
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true true. I just top off after every game so i'm not too worried about it.
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Old 02-24-2012, 06:40 PM #20
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I used to use Dr. Strangeloves' method too. What I have found is that when you have a bore size that is real close to the paint size, you get more inconsistency at the chrono. For example, my local field sells paint that is about .682, and it just so happens my smallest barrel insert is --- .682
When using my cockers at this field I get crazy chrono numbers. Sometimes the +/- is 20fps. Part of that is the rec grade paint being inconsistent and some paint rolls out, some fits tight, some just right. Using my Angel, I can overbore without fear of rollouts and the consistency is much better. For the record, I use Scepter kits for both guns, and they usually are pretty close consistency wise if I use the same inserts on both. Also a big reason as to why I just ordered some .678 barrels for the cockers, hating the occasional roll outs!
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Old 02-24-2012, 07:37 PM #21
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I only play rec, and only quick games, so I dont really care about efficiency. I either perfect fit (blow test) or over bore slightly.

I also have way to many barrels and barrel kits that i never use, but like to have "just in case"
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