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Old 01-28-2012, 07:27 PM #1
SuperMiguel
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Multiple eXTCy questions =)

So i got an eXTCy this week and went to the field to try it today.. So initially it was shooting at a velocity of 240 fps, then i increased to about 290, shotted ok.. Then went a bit more than 300, and buff gun stared leaking air... lowered the pressure and leaking stopped.. So i left the gun around 290, while around 290 i did few more shots and the velocy was varying alot... 275, 290, 292, 280, etcs.. which made it very hard to keep hitting the same target. Was shooting at a 20x20inch square about 20-25 feet away from me and the paintball if hited the squared (missed few times) it would not be in the same place so it was not that accurate.

So i know i need a better barrel than the stock one.. I ordered the Full freak fit, (one with the 8 insert, back and 2 tops_

Also should i go ahead and upgrade to a 360 QEV? also should i upgrade the bolt and get the Firebolt from GoG, that way the velocity will be more consistent making it more accurate.

Also why was the gun leaking air at more when set at more than 300 fps?? (how to fix it?)

FYI my tank is a HPA ninja 68/4500
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Old 01-28-2012, 07:43 PM #2
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Barrel - The freak is a good barrel, it's what I shoot.

360 QEV - This isn't necessary, and in fact, if you use the bolt I'm about to suggest it's actually discouraged, as it will make your bolt cycle too quickly.

Bolt - I'd recommend getting the Deadlywind Hollowpoint bolt as an upgrade if you're really wanting a new bolt. The firebolt (along with 90% of Ion "upgrade" bolts out there) is essentially just another stock bolt.

As to your inconsistency/leaking issues: It sounds like your pressure is too high/dwell too low, or both.

To learn how to properly set your dwell/pressure, try this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZDSPB
Detailed below is the suggested method for finding this optimal dwell setting for your particular Ion. This is how I set all Ions that go through the shop for repair. The setting may be fine-tuned later on, but this will give you a good starting point to use.
1. Pressurize your Ion at whatever input pressure you wish to use. I suggest between 140-170 psi, depending on the internals. The following steps involve dry-firing the marker (firing it without paint). Always be safe. I suggest a pressure that currently gives you about 275 fps
2. Lower the dwell to the minimum setting (or an extremely low setting, such as 5 blinks with the stock board, or 8 milliseconds with an aftermarket board).
3. Gradually increase the dwell setting until the marker begins to fully cycle. When the marker has trouble cycling, the sound of the bolt firing will be muffled and sound erratic, denoting inconsistencies. When you reach the point where it fully cycles, the marker will sound loud on each shot fired, with minimal sound difference between them.
4. Once the Ion is fully cycling, increase the dwell another 4-6 blinks (2-3 milliseconds with aftermarket board), and that will be your new dwell setting.
http://www.zdspb.com/tech/mguide/ion...ectronics.html

One more note: there is no reason to be shooting more than 300 feet per second. It is dangerous, and discouraged. It will also actually decrease your accuracy.

If you have further questions, just ask.
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Last edited by Umami : 01-28-2012 at 07:46 PM.
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Old 01-28-2012, 08:07 PM #3
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The only reason i wanted to hit over 300 was because while playing today i was not able to reach them and they will shoot at me straigh and very very fast
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Old 01-28-2012, 08:21 PM #4
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If that's actually the case, they're shooting over 300. If you're playing safe, nobody's gun should be over 300. (Nearly) every marker out there will have the same range at the same chrono velocity.
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Old 01-28-2012, 09:50 PM #5
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I think your reg on both your gun (not broken in) and tank (low quality) is your inconstantsy.
360 QEV- adds about 2-3 pods a fill (on my 70/45)
Fire bolt-don't get it, techt l7 is the best bolt for the extcy by far
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Old 01-28-2012, 10:43 PM #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azhector View Post
I think your reg on both your gun (not broken in) and tank (low quality) is your inconstantsy.
360 QEV- adds about 2-3 pods a fill (on my 70/45)
Fire bolt-don't get it, techt l7 is the best bolt for the extcy by far
the reg will get better with use? my tank low quality was one of the most expensive if not the the most expensive tank in the store at that time (http://www.zephyrpaintball.com/c=wZO...nk---Grey.html)

also how is the techt l7 compared with the previous recommended Deadlywind Hollowpoint bolt???
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Old 01-28-2012, 11:43 PM #7
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Your tank reg is fine (actually very good), as is the reg on your marker (again, a great reg). It'll break in a little over time, but nothing dramatic.

The TechT L7 is also a nice bolt, but I prefer the DW Hollowpoint because where the TechT tries to improve the marker by giving you the greatest volume possible, the Hollowpoint actually improves the air path to the paintball. You should get very slightly better air efficiency from the hollowpoint, provided it's properly tuned. Besides that, the ARB feature on the Hollowpoint is nice, and Colin at Deadlywind is very responsive if you ever have a problem.

IMO the deadlywind bolt is worth it, but when it comes down to it they're pretty similar in design theory.
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Old 01-29-2012, 12:01 AM #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umami View Post
Your tank reg is fine (actually very good), as is the reg on your marker (again, a great reg). It'll break in a little over time, but nothing dramatic.

The TechT L7 is also a nice bolt, but I prefer the DW Hollowpoint because where the TechT tries to improve the marker by giving you the greatest volume possible, the Hollowpoint actually improves the air path to the paintball. You should get very slightly better air efficiency from the hollowpoint, provided it's properly tuned. Besides that, the ARB feature on the Hollowpoint is nice, and Colin at Deadlywind is very responsive if you ever have a problem.

IMO the deadlywind bolt is worth it, but when it comes down to it they're pretty similar in design theory.
gotcha.. when you say properly tunned you taking about dwell settings??
also why is my gun leaking at more than 300fps..?? like i dont even have to shoot its just leaks as soon as i close the valve
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Old 01-29-2012, 07:41 AM #9
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Right, dwell and pressure.

Dwell determines how long the valve is open, and pressure determines effectively how much air you're dumping during that time. If your dwell is low, in order to reach 300 FPS you have to compensate by making your pressure much higher than is safe for the marker - causing the solenoid to vent in order to protect itself. It also could cause the valve to close before the paintball has left the barrel - which makes your consistency depend on your electronics, and paintball electronics aren't very consistent. Also, know that most electropneumatic markers, and spool valved markers like the eXTCy, aren't really designed to shoot much higher than 300 FPS. You could easily damage the seals in the marker by attempting to do so, especially if you don't know what you're doing.

tl;dr - a short dwell and too high a pressure will cause the solenoid to vent in order to protect itself, as well as lead to inconsistencies. I recommend re-tuning the dwell and pressure of your marker.

Another likely source of inconsistency is bad paint and a bad paint-to-barrel match, but you've already taken care of that by grabbing the Freak barrel.

EDIT: I would like to point out that I'm trying to diagnose the problem based on what you've described online, so if re-tuning the marker doesn't fix the problem there are other possible causes, this just seems to fit your description of the symptoms best.
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Last edited by Umami : 01-29-2012 at 07:53 AM.
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Old 01-29-2012, 08:09 AM #10
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Gotcha whats the maximum velocity this gun will shoot safety?
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Old 01-29-2012, 08:56 AM #11
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I honestly wouldn't take it over 300 fps. You can seriously injure someone at that velocity if you hit them in the neck, unprotected parts of the head, or other sensitive "areas". Not to mention paintball masks aren't rated for velocities higher than 300 fps, and the energy carried by an object goes up very fast as you increase your velocity. A 10% increase in velocity corresponds to a 21% increase in energy carried by the paintball.

Quote:
If velocity adjustment is necessary, use a 5/32-inch allen wrench on the adjuster in the bottom of the
vertical regulator, turn clockwise to increase the velocity/pressure or counter-clockwise to decrease.
Take three or four shots after every adjustment to allow the gas pressure inside the eXTCyTM to stabilize,
then measure velocity again. Adjust until the marker is firing consistently within the limits for the field
where you are playing. For safety reasons, never adjust the eXTCyTM to fire at greater than 300 feet per
second (91.44 meters per second).
http://www.gogpaintball.com/docs/manuals/extcy.pdf

If you want to increase your range, you could get an Apex freak tip and an Apex2 barrel or something that adds spin to the paintball.
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Last edited by Umami : 01-29-2012 at 09:03 AM.
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Old 01-29-2012, 10:59 AM #12
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I know ninja have good regs, but that is really my only guess, try changing your O-rings, the gun reg takes about 10 cases to break in, but I've only cycled 3 cases and never had to change my pressure. So I'm just guessing one of your o rings is lose/snapped.
And for the l7 vs hollow point: lighter bolt = smoother, sightly more efficient (I believe the l7 is like 2g lighter. More air capacity = better efficiency, the l7 has a small back plug and a very small bolt itself that sits farther up then the hollow point; which means the l7 is smoother and more efficient. But I do agree with umami that deadly wind has better customer service
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Old 01-29-2012, 11:03 AM #13
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Dont really care about customer service just care about performance
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Old 01-29-2012, 12:43 PM #14
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lol 1vs1 here on the techt l7 vs the Deadlywind Hollowpoint
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Old 01-29-2012, 02:36 PM #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azhector View Post
And for the l7 vs hollow point: lighter bolt = smoother, sightly more efficient (I believe the l7 is like 2g lighter. More air capacity = better efficiency, the l7 has a small back plug and a very small bolt itself that sits farther up then the hollow point; which means the l7 is smoother and more efficient. But I do agree with umami that deadly wind has better customer service
Lighter bolt does not automatically mean smoother, has no noticeable effect on efficiency, arbitrarily increasing air capacity alone are likely to actually hurt efficiency, and the size of the plug and bolt have nothing to do with smoothness and efficiency. I don't mean to offend, but I don't think you really know what you're talking about.

I've already mentioned I prefer the deadlywind bolt, as I put in my UL'd Ion XE seen below, but in the end they're both solid bolts so I'm not going to argue. You can't really go wrong either way, I just prefer the hollowpoint.

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Old 01-29-2012, 06:13 PM #16
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so the Deadlywind Hollowpoint with no QEV upgrade? or go ahead and do both?
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Old 01-29-2012, 09:55 PM #17
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I'd go hollowpoint and no QEV. You'll be able to handle brittle paint better and the hollowpoint already has a pretty low dwell requirement and high flow so ROF and efficiency aren't an issue. And if you decide you want one, you can always get one later, but like I said it would probably reduce the flexibility of your marker to shoot high quality paint by causing the bolt forward speed to be unnecessarily high.
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Last edited by Umami : 01-29-2012 at 10:04 PM.
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Old 01-29-2012, 11:31 PM #18
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i saw hollowpoint sells a CF barrel that works with the freak inserts.. how better is it than the GoG barrel (one that comes with full freak kit)
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Old 01-30-2012, 12:14 AM #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperMiguel View Post
i saw hollowpoint sells a CF barrel that works with the freak inserts.. how better is it than the GoG barrel (one that comes with full freak kit)
Its just lighter and is a one piece instead of two.
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Old 01-30-2012, 02:16 AM #20
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Yup, what he said. FYI it's carbon fiber, if that means anything to you.

Just found a pretty cool Russian site, thought you might be interested:

Stock
http://paintball.newkamikaze.com/scheme.php?id=5

DW Hollowpoint
http://paintball.newkamikaze.com/scheme.php?id=8

L7
http://paintball.newkamikaze.com/scheme.php?id=7
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Old 01-30-2012, 06:58 AM #21
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Your gun is new, instead of throwing money at it to make it shoot faster or more accurate, try putting a few cases threw it so your reg seals have time to properly seat and do its job. Same with your tank. Everything is new and hasn't had the proper amount of time to break in, this is why your performance is erratic. I forsee your impatience as your downfall and many more threads in your future because you tried to fix something thats wasn't broke.

Also, just because you pay more for something doesn't make it the best.

Umami is correct, a lighter bolt does not equal better efficiency. A lighter bolt only reduces kick or barrel rise when using any other mode besides semi auto. A lighter bolt combined with a QEV allows you to reduce your dwell, resulting in less gas it takes to operate the marker, however, when you use a barrel such as the Freak with all the holes in the barrel, this throws the efficiency you gained right out the window. If you want better efficiency I say have your stock barrel "Freak Bored" as it has less holes in it and will be a lot more efficient then the Freak. Then add a lighter bolt bolt in it.

Last edited by [NA]WARLORD : 01-30-2012 at 07:33 AM.
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