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Old 03-13-2012, 02:22 PM #400
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The shards can take a little time to collect but it is the best relic to use. Then, use your champ tokens to buy the champ power relic and those are done. Then start buying centurion gear to fill out your equipment slots and replace with Champ when you can afford them.

Another way to get gear is by doing hard mode flashpoints. You'll get tionese gear which is equivalent to centurion gear left and right and then columi on the last boss which is equivalent to champ gear. You lose out on expertise but according to Arabesque the PVE bonuses for a marauder are better.
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Old 03-13-2012, 08:51 PM #401
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i spent like 3 hours doing the daily missions. so many crappy teams full of people like me. I eventually did get them done and I have 2 new pieces of centurion gear.
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Old 03-13-2012, 10:31 PM #402
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Another way to get gear is by doing hard mode flashpoints. You'll get tionese gear which is equivalent to centurion gear left and right and then columi on the last boss which is equivalent to champ gear. You lose out on expertise but according to Arabesque the PVE bonuses for a marauder are better.
Full Columi is better than full Centurion imo, and much easier to get. It's plenty easy to do the HM's, and then pug a couple normal operations. Guaranteed at least a couple pieces of Columi if you do both.

That said, I did notice a HUGE boost to damage and survivability with expertise up to 420. But Centurion gear is such ****. Luckily for me, I got like 7 unique pieces of Champion gear the week before the bag changes, including my mainhand out of a bag 5 minutes before the patch went live.

I'll probably transfer to Sith Wyrm if there's enough of you when server transfers happen. Guilds are pretty pointless as of now, I'm full Rakata and Champion from pugs.
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Old 03-13-2012, 10:43 PM #403
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Columni is a tier higher than centurion. EPT still needs a lot of valor so doing PVP makes sense. Even with tier equivalent gear, you are hurting yourself going full PVP. Considering you can crit craft Rakata bracers and belt, there really is no reason to wear PVP versions of those unless you are wearing other PVE gear for the bonuses and need the expertise. I think it is weird though that Columni implants are better than Rakata for several classes.

Edit: if you are saying to just get Columni now and then replace with Champion when it is affordable, that isn't a bad idea considering he only has a couple PVP pieces. I don't know if it is worth running through FPs to replace cent pieces he already has though.

Last edited by angelballer : 03-13-2012 at 10:54 PM.
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Old 03-13-2012, 11:30 PM #404
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Edit: if you are saying to just get Columni now and then replace with Champion when it is affordable, that isn't a bad idea considering he only has a couple PVP pieces. I don't know if it is worth running through FPs to replace cent pieces he already has though.
I think it is. It would allow him to focus on the pieces that cost less, especially. Mainhand and offhand are the core of the set, but it's really easy to make that work with the new crystals. You really start to notice a difference when you have Cent/Champion relics, implants, and earpiece.

Bracers and belt are a necessity of a pvp set too, because you sacrifice the least amount of stats for the expertise. The set bonus from most (and probably all) pve sets is better than pvp, and that's on top of the stat bonuses.

Edit: Also, unless they completely reinvent the way diminishing returns affects expertise, the difference between 400 and 1000 will be negligible. Currently tanks have only reason to push expertise past diminishing returns, and even still I doubt the mitigation is worth the extreme health hit.
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Old 03-14-2012, 12:57 AM #405
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I think it is. It would allow him to focus on the pieces that cost less, especially. Mainhand and offhand are the core of the set, but it's really easy to make that work with the new crystals. You really start to notice a difference when you have Cent/Champion relics, implants, and earpiece.

Bracers and belt are a necessity of a pvp set too, because you sacrifice the least amount of stats for the expertise. The set bonus from most (and probably all) pve sets is better than pvp, and that's on top of the stat bonuses.

Edit: Also, unless they completely reinvent the way diminishing returns affects expertise, the difference between 400 and 1000 will be negligible. Currently tanks have only reason to push expertise past diminishing returns, and even still I doubt the mitigation is worth the extreme health hit.
I disagree with PVE bonuses being better than PVP. Some classes that might be the case but definitely not all. Take an assassin for example. Both PVE sets provide negligible bonuses to PVP play. A lot of people argue that is better to get the PVP survivor set and replace the mods with those from the stalker set. Shield chance is worthless. 2% reduction isn't that great. Spike is useful as well as the 10% damage on the PVP set. Even if you stick with the stalker set, you get an extra charge of recklessness with is a 50% dmg bonus on an autocrit shock. For a concealment operative, optimal gear is 2 of each. Plenty of other examples as well.
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Old 03-14-2012, 05:02 AM #406
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I disagree with PVE bonuses being better than PVP. Some classes that might be the case but definitely not all. Take an assassin for example. Both PVE sets provide negligible bonuses to PVP play. A lot of people argue that is better to get the PVP survivor set and replace the mods with those from the stalker set. Shield chance is worthless. 2% reduction isn't that great. Spike is useful as well as the 10% damage on the PVP set. Even if you stick with the stalker set, you get an extra charge of recklessness with is a 50% dmg bonus on an autocrit shock. For a concealment operative, optimal gear is 2 of each. Plenty of other examples as well.
Not really sure about all classes bonuses, but if you crunched the numbers the stat increase from pve sets is a HUGE boost to health and damage over pvp sets. That alone is worth it after 400ish expertise, imo. The main stat and endurance increase is pretty silly.

I still have not dropped 500k damage. I get 475ish a few times a day, but I cannot break that 500k mark for whatever reason.
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Old 03-14-2012, 06:56 AM #407
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what is your gear breakdown? I wouldnt mind doing flashpoints, expecially since they break up the 100 games of huttball I have to play everyday.
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Old 03-14-2012, 08:56 AM #408
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Not really sure about all classes bonuses, but if you crunched the numbers the stat increase from pve sets is a HUGE boost to health and damage over pvp sets. That alone is worth it after 400ish expertise, imo. The main stat and endurance increase is pretty silly.

I still have not dropped 500k damage. I get 475ish a few times a day, but I cannot break that 500k mark for whatever reason.
I don't even know what your argument is anymore.

Yes, PVE stats are better. Expertise up until a certain point is more beneficial than the increase in stats the PVE sets provide over the PVP set. ~10% Damage reduction as well as ~10% increase in damage done > whatever % increase the PVE set provides in end and main stat because it is less than 20%. Depending on the PVP and PVE bonuses, sometimes it is better to have 4 PVE head, chest, pants, boots, and glove pieces than 4 PVP pieces. Otherwise, get your expertise from 4 PVP pieces plus a couple more until you reach somewhere between 400-500 and then fill out with PVE bracers, belt, implants, ear, and/or relics. I thought we established this a couple pages ago (if not longer)?
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Old 03-14-2012, 09:23 AM #409
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get Ninja Mouse in here...
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Old 03-14-2012, 09:27 AM #410
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Old 03-14-2012, 03:23 PM #411
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I don't even know what your argument is anymore.

Yes, PVE stats are better. Expertise up until a certain point is more beneficial than the increase in stats the PVE sets provide over the PVP set. ~10% Damage reduction as well as ~10% increase in damage done > whatever % increase the PVE set provides in end and main stat because it is less than 20%. Depending on the PVP and PVE bonuses, sometimes it is better to have 4 PVE head, chest, pants, boots, and glove pieces than 4 PVP pieces. Otherwise, get your expertise from 4 PVP pieces plus a couple more until you reach somewhere between 400-500 and then fill out with PVE bracers, belt, implants, ear, and/or relics. I thought we established this a couple pages ago (if not longer)?
I guess I wasn't succinct enough.

Columi is better than Centurion for pvp, at least for damage and healing classes. The jump is definitely more than 20% over Centurion gear.

Secondly, getting any of the set gear from pvp sets, minus a piece to supplement your expertise is also pointless. No matter what the set bonus from your pvp set is, it's not better than the flat increase in damage/healing/mitigation/health you'd receive from a pve set via superior stats.

I'd guarantee this is true for all classes. My point is that you should focus on weapons, relics, and implants to build your expertise.

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what is your gear breakdown? I wouldnt mind doing flashpoints, expecially since they break up the 100 games of huttball I have to play everyday.
My gear for pvp is 4/5 Rakata (hat, chest, gloves, boots), Matrix Shard, and the rest champion. Sitting at 16.7kish hp unbuffed and 420 expertise. If I ever get BM gear, I'll do 5/5 Rakata. Just as long as I break 400 expertise.

Edit: broke 500k for the first time in my first warzone today. Dropped 550k, and I honestly have no idea how it happened.
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Old 03-14-2012, 04:48 PM #412
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Columi is better than Centurion for pvp, at least for damage and healing classes. The jump is definitely more than 20% over Centurion gear.
Maybe because it is a tier higher? Also, by the time he gets fully-kitted out in columni gear, he could have had all of his centurion gear and several champ pieces. If he spends all his time trying to get columni gear, a week later he has no expertise. If he spends a week completing daily/weekly pvp missions, he has 140 champ commendations (= a couple pieces of champ gear) and he is fully kitted out in centurion gear. Compare centurion to tionese (as they are the same tier and take about as long to get) and there isn't much difference. Plus, when he goes to do some of the harder flashpoints, he isn't in green gear.

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Secondly, getting any of the set gear from pvp sets, minus a piece to supplement your expertise is also pointless. No matter what the set bonus from your pvp set is, it's not better than the flat increase in damage/healing/mitigation/health you'd receive from a pve set via superior stats.

I'd guarantee this is true for all classes. My point is that you should focus on weapons, relics, and implants to build your expertise.
Tell that to all the BM and War Hero people on my server. Plenty of cases where PVP set bonuses are better than PVE set bonuses for PVP play. Just ignore the couple examples I gave and keep believing what you want. There are also several cases where the stats on PVE implants and weapons are considerably better than their tier-equivalent PVP versions.

Do you still need more examples?

http://sithwarrior.com/forums/Thread...Focus-Rage-DPS

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Set Bonuses
PvE Vindicator
(2) Lowers the cooldown of Combat Focus [Beserk] by 5 seconds
(4) Reduces the minimum range of saber throw by 10m

PvP Vindicator
(2) Guardian Leap [ Intercede ] heals you for 8% of your total health.
(4) Increases all damage dealt for 10% for 5 seconds after using Force Leap [ Force Charge ].

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?! If you ever break your 4 set PvP Vindicator bonus, go respec to something else right now. You don't deserve to be a Focus guardian. I'll explain way in Rotation #1 a few paragraphs down.
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=337892

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Head: Rakata Enforcer's Headgear*
Chest: Battlemaster Enforcer's Jacket
Hands: Rakata Enforcer's Gloves*
Legs: Battlemaster Enforcer's Leggings
Feet: Battlemaster Enforcer's Boots
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Old 03-14-2012, 10:23 PM #413
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so far I have centurion helmet, chest, pants, belt, and offhand saber. Plus champ main hand saber. Ill probably finish out centurian gear tomorrow. I think all I have left is gloves, boots, implants, and relics. Im sitting at 244 expertise right now and Im ~29 valor.
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Old 03-14-2012, 11:53 PM #414
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Maybe because it is a tier higher? Also, by the time he gets fully-kitted out in columni gear, he could have had all of his centurion gear and several champ pieces. If he spends all his time trying to get columni gear, a week later he has no expertise. If he spends a week completing daily/weekly pvp missions, he has 140 champ commendations (= a couple pieces of champ gear) and he is fully kitted out in centurion gear. Compare centurion to tionese (as they are the same tier and take about as long to get) and there isn't much difference. Plus, when he goes to do some of the harder flashpoints, he isn't in green gear.
My tank, healer, and myself were all full Columi in less than two weeks of hitting 50. Most people are...

I was full Columi like 6 days after hitting 50, and that was before the bag nerf. It's easier to get Columi than Centurion or Champion gear.

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Tell that to all the BM and War Hero people on my server. Plenty of cases where PVP set bonuses are better than PVE set bonuses for PVP play. Just ignore the couple examples I gave and keep believing what you want. There are also several cases where the stats on PVE implants and weapons are considerably better than their tier-equivalent PVP versions.
BM and War Hero does not equate to skill or knowledge. The huge, vast majority of people with those titles sat in Ilum soaking up valor. That's not even an appeal to authority.

I'm not reading that whole ****ing thing you linked. I know better Juggs who DO NOT USE the 4 set pvp bonus. Also, anecdotal **** means absolutely nothing (hurr durr I got 500k damage with two pocket healers and smashing around against light armor for 15 minutes durr). 8% increase to smashes from the set bonus and the added expertise damage/mitigation does NOT negate the HUGE strength and endurance benefits from pve sets.

Further still, damage in warzones is about consistency, not about huge hits. BIG NUMBERS EQUALS BIG DPS RITE RITE. No. In that thread the dude argues that crit strike is pretty pointless for a dps jugg, which is wrong. That theory is completely built around burst damage, which is NOT superior overall damage. Sustained damage will always be superior.

For a dps Jugg, the secondary stat breakdown would be surge > crit > power. And yes, I have Jugg friends who can provide plenty of anecdotal evidence and screenshots to support that claim.

I do the most damage in 9/10 warzones, even against premades on the most populous server in game right now. And I've yet to be out damaged by a Jugg since I hit 50. Probably because all of them follow that ****tard's advice.

But, hey, don't listen to me. I don't know anything.
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Old 03-15-2012, 12:52 AM #415
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I like how you changed the point I was making about PVP set bonuses > PVE set bonuses for several classes to Jugg tactics. The links were provided for reference. Notice how I only quoted gear choice and not tactics?

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But, hey, don't listen to me. I don't know anything.
Best idea yet.
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Old 03-15-2012, 10:00 AM #416
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My tank, healer, and myself were all full Columi in less than two weeks of hitting 50. Most people are...

I was full Columi like 6 days after hitting 50, and that was before the bag nerf. It's easier to get Columi than Centurion or Champion gear.



BM and War Hero does not equate to skill or knowledge. The huge, vast majority of people with those titles sat in Ilum soaking up valor. That's not even an appeal to authority.

I'm not reading that whole ****ing thing you linked. I know better Juggs who DO NOT USE the 4 set pvp bonus. Also, anecdotal **** means absolutely nothing (hurr durr I got 500k damage with two pocket healers and smashing around against light armor for 15 minutes durr). 8% increase to smashes from the set bonus and the added expertise damage/mitigation does NOT negate the HUGE strength and endurance benefits from pve sets.

Further still, damage in warzones is about consistency, not about huge hits. BIG NUMBERS EQUALS BIG DPS RITE RITE. No. In that thread the dude argues that crit strike is pretty pointless for a dps jugg, which is wrong. That theory is completely built around burst damage, which is NOT superior overall damage. Sustained damage will always be superior.

For a dps Jugg, the secondary stat breakdown would be surge > crit > power. And yes, I have Jugg friends who can provide plenty of anecdotal evidence and screenshots to support that claim.

I do the most damage in 9/10 warzones, even against premades on the most populous server in game right now. And I've yet to be out damaged by a Jugg since I hit 50. Probably because all of them follow that ****tard's advice.

But, hey, don't listen to me. I don't know anything.
Not only are you completely ****ing 100% wrong here, but you don't even attempt to make a believable post. Congrats dude, you are a *******.
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Old 03-15-2012, 10:14 AM #417
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surge > crit > power.
You had me until this. Then I realized what you were doing.
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Old 03-15-2012, 12:57 PM #418
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You had me until this. Then I realized what you were doing.
Hahaha.
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Old 03-15-2012, 10:09 PM #419
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I have full centurion gear with 2 pieces of champion gear and am valor level 30. Should I continue selecting champ bags or am I able to get more champ tokens from battlemaster bags?
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Old 03-15-2012, 10:41 PM #420
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You can't open battlemaster bags until valor 60. You can get one for a reward but then you have to pick champ bags. Keep getting champ bags and start kitting out your companions.
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