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Old 01-01-2012, 06:53 PM #1
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Pro Shop Marker Purchase Advice

Hi.

We started recently playing paintball and have been to the Santa's Village location a couple times. Very nice place.

So, sooner or later, we are going to buy markers for the 3 of us family members. We plan to play outdoors almost exclusively and would like markers that are good enough to get the job done and don't make you sad that you went too cheap, but we don't plan to be superstar tournament people. Any ideas what to think about? Without knowing if I am shutting a door on a superior choice, I would say $500 for the marker, loader, and tank would be great ($500 for each person =$1,500)

ADD More Detail to Post:
As far as I know, only from reading the internet, not test firing anything but a Tippman 98, maybe a poppet spool would be great, especially to have a little extra air for home use. Does the shop sell used, also (I have not repaired markers, but could probably catch on fast, just wouldn't know what parts are going out of production or other specific knowledge yet).
Also, no need for mil-sim / detatched tank.

Last edited by Pain't : 01-01-2012 at 07:27 PM. Reason: add more detail.
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Old 01-01-2012, 08:01 PM #2
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Get JT proflex masks. Get some lower end empire packs. That'll be $100~. Then I'd say get the proto rail 2011 $250 sale. Then get a good tank ninja 45/45 or 68/45. The hopper with it will be sufficient.

If the sell used look for pmr's, dye anything, axes and almost anything in your price range. The marker should be 100% working at time of purchase and it sounds like you wont need to maintain them often. I'd also be a bit more wallet lenient to a younger member in the family if they really get into paintball so they can stick with it and go further.
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Old 01-01-2012, 08:38 PM #3
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Get JT proflex masks. Get some lower end empire packs. That'll be $100~. Then I'd say get the proto rail 2011 $250 sale. Then get a good tank ninja 45/45 or 68/45. The hopper with it will be sufficient.

If the sell used look for pmr's, dye anything, axes and almost anything in your price range. The marker should be 100% working at time of purchase and it sounds like you wont need to maintain them often. I'd also be a bit more wallet lenient to a younger member in the family if they really get into paintball so they can stick with it and go further.
Thanks. As a new person, it is hard to perceive what features are missing as you go down in price, and if those features matter. For example, a lever hopper neck vs. a clamp down vs. a straight non-clamp one. They sound neat, but will I care? So it is hard to layout the trade-off list and make an informed decision just yet.

I looked up the rail 2011. Saw that some folks said it was a heavy air user, but it breaks in. I didn't mention that my wife had some preferences for color that the rail seems to satisfy, luckily.
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Old 01-01-2012, 09:11 PM #4
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Have you spoken to the proshop staff? They can help you find the right equipment in your price range.

Something to know is that there's a significant difference between a Tippmann 98 Custom and a spool valve marker. The Tippmann is a great starter marker because it's reliable and easy to maintain, but spool valve markers are way faster and smoother shooting. Think Honda Civic vs Chevy Corvette. Entirely different performance ranges.

As for air consumption, it doesn't really matter when you play at a field with all day air. Testing after tech work you do at home usually consumes a negligible amount of air regardless of marker design.

Here are some pages you should check out in the mean time:
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3606494
http://www.pbnation.com/forumdisplay.php?f=828
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Old 01-01-2012, 09:49 PM #5
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Have you spoken to the proshop staff? They can help you find the right equipment in your price range.

Something to know is that there's a significant difference between a Tippmann 98 Custom and a spool valve marker. The Tippmann is a great starter marker because it's reliable and easy to maintain, but spool valve markers are way faster and smoother shooting. Think Honda Civic vs Chevy Corvette. Entirely different performance ranges.

As for air consumption, it doesn't really matter when you play at a field with all day air. Testing after tech work you do at home usually consumes a negligible amount of air regardless of marker design.

Here are some pages you should check out in the mean time:
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3606494
http://www.pbnation.com/forumdisplay.php?f=828
Sometimes the staff is stretched thin, so I figure if they have a heads up, I can show up when the best gun techs are around. I just viewed the ****** review of the PMR. Seems like the Gog Extcy is similar price. At least this is getting narrowed down to some specific candidates.
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Old 01-01-2012, 09:51 PM #6
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A spool valve like a rail won't be the most efficient however it will get plenty of air efficiency for a player just in the family. Also if you ever want to get better performance out of one of those rail you could get a tech t l7 for it. Itd cost about 70~ per L7 bolt assembly. It does take a little work to install but tech t post you I've videos showing you exactly how to do it.
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Old 01-01-2012, 10:07 PM #7
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... The hopper with it will be sufficient.
..
I just heard a blurb here: pmr review that the pmr 2011 was made with the idea of using a gravity hopper. That is interesting if I heard right.
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Old 01-01-2012, 10:20 PM #8
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Ehhh nog exactly however the proto primo is a great gravity hopper. Like I said since the pmr has eyes it will be fine with the gravity hopper.
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Old 01-01-2012, 10:31 PM #9
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Ehhh nog exactly however the proto primo is a great gravity hopper. Like I said since the pmr has eyes it will be fine with the gravity hopper.
I saw in the 19-minute review of the 2011 rail by ****** that there was an eye, protected by an eye tube, accessed by removing the barrel.

ADD: and this review here mentions the anti-chop eyes at about the 1-minute mark.

Last edited by Pain't : 01-01-2012 at 10:34 PM.
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Old 01-01-2012, 10:54 PM #10
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Yes those are all good features especially the eye pipe. The eye pipe was designed for their 1200 dollar marker the dm in 2007
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Old 01-03-2012, 03:11 PM #11
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Old 01-08-2012, 11:58 AM #12
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I stopped in the Skokie store on Friday at lunch. It was a nice experience, and we got 1 Invert Mini to start out with.

Thanks!
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Old 01-21-2012, 09:32 PM #13
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Wink Good Call

I have had a Invert Mini for about 2 years now and Have absolutely zero problems with it. A couple things to note are:

1) I suggest turning the PSI on the asa/regulator down from 200 to 170-185 and turning your dwell up 1 click for better air consumption.

2) Someone with larger Fingers may want to think about The Empire axe.

3) If you keep good care of it you will not be dissapointed if you keep your eyes on and donít mess with the barrel or overbore.

Good luck, Have Fun, and Keep Ballin'
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Old 01-22-2012, 08:29 AM #14
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I recommend you get on the nation and ebay to find a lot of stuff. Regardless of how much you want to spend all gear needs maintenance. Spool valve guns are a little more work to maintain because you need to relube more often, but they tend to be simpler than poppet valve guns. Having said that here's a few of my favorite spool valve guns.

1. Dangerous Power G4: $300 new, $200 or so used. It's a good starter gun, simple to maintain and decent reliability. They have a clamping feed neck and on/off venting ASA which higher end guns sometimes lack. I have this gun and I recommend it to anyone who is starting into paintball on a budget. It's even amateur tournament ready.

2. Proto Matrix Rail (PMR) 2008-2010: Don't get the 2011 PMR, it's not the same gun. The 2008 to 2010 PMR's are great guns and nice shooters. You can pick them up used for 150-350 or new for 450. I wouldn't upgrade anything on this gun other than the feed neck.

3. Proto Reflex Rail 2011: Don't confuse this with the Proto Rail which is a lower end gun and not the same quality. The Reflex is the replacement for the PMR 2010 line. These are nice guns, but a little more complicated than a PMR. I don't own one, but they are good.

4. Macdev Drone DX: New you can buy them for $550 or used $400 and up. This is a great gun with good efficiency. There is effectively nothing on it that isn't well thought out and well designed. There are better spool valve guns, but you will pay a lot more money to buy them. I have one of these and recommend it highly. Any complaint I have is minor at most.

Masks:
The Proto FS mask is $50 new and works very well for the price. They come with an easy to remove lense. You can take the lense out and clean/replace it in less than a minute. For the price point you probably wont find a better mask that is more comfortable and as easily serviced. I have 2 of these masks. Proto makes another mask called the ES I think that uses the same lense design, but doesn't have the soft area on the bottom of the mask. I have yet to get a break on the softer lower part. Whatever you get in a mask, get one that allows for easy lense removal and has a fan option for the times your mask gets fogged up. Both the FS and ES can take a fan. The rest of the mask will last for many years, but your lense will get scratched or deteriorate making it hard to see.

Pods:
Don't get anything less than 140 round pods. The 140 round variety are very inexpensive and you can buy them anywhere for less than $10 for 6. Get the kind that has no collar around the top. The collar tends to break or crack. Dye makes locking lid pods that hold 160 rounds. I really like them, but you need a harness that will carry them since they are a little longer and fatter than a 140 round pod. The lid doesn't really lock, it's just harder to open the lid by accident. you can buy them new for $5-6 each or on the nation or ebay for less than that. I just bought 7 of them on the nation for $3 each. One of the things I like about them is a full pod will almost fill an empty hopper.

Harness/pod carrier:
Go with what you like and think is comfortable. Get one that will hold the pods vertically not horizontally. Pods carried horizontally stick out the sides and snag on stuff and provide a larger target to hit. Vertical pods are totally behind you on your back and don't stick out as much.

Air vs CO2:
Don't go with CO2. Get air bottles. New air bottles are rather expensive, but you can buy them used for 50-80 bucks and they will last for years and serve you well. C02 is more problematic, harder on guns that will work with it and less consistent than compressed air. Compressed air is the way to go. Get 68ci 4500 psi bottles. They are extremely common and a good size for everything. If you play woods ball or play where you don't have ready access to 3000 or 4500 psi compressed air then get a couple of scuba tanks and a fill station. You can get the scuba tanks filled at most scuba stores for around $12 per scuba tank. You will fill your paintball bottles many times for the cost of a scuba fill. Typically you will pay $6-8 to fill your 68/4500 bottle at most paint ball stores. The fill station clamps on the scuba tank and then you attach your paintball bottle to it to fill your bottle. You can buy new fill stations for $40-80. Get bottle covers for your air tanks so they don't get damaged as they are usually wrapped in carbon fiber.

Hoppers:
Gravity fed hoppers are fine for low rates of fire, but if you want to shoot more than 6-8 bps you will want an electric hopper. Electric hoppers can cost between $10 to $200, but all the good ones are worth the money. Pretty much anyone you ask will tell you that the Dye Rotor is the best hopper out there. I have 2 and I completely agree. They are faster than you will ever need to shoot, quiet, reliable, excellent on battery usage, super easy to fix and very popular. New you can buy them for $180-210 each. Used they can be picked up for $80 and up. After you use a Rotor you will probably never want to try another hopper again.

Barrels:
The barrel that comes with your gun is going to work great as long as the paint you are using is a good fit in the barrel bore. If you want better efficiency, consistency and accuracy, get a barrel kit. You can spend $300 for a Dye UL kit new and have no better accuracy than you would with a used 7 piece Empire kit that you paid $50 for. You want a barrel kit with at least a 4" control bore. 7" is the ideal, but no one makes a kit with 7" bores anymore. Here are several that are very good, easy to find and not very expensive. I like barrel backs that have different control bores rather than inserts that go in a single barrel back. Empire used to make a great barrel kit that had 6 backs and at least one tip. I have bought 3 of these kits and paid $30-60 each for them used. They only came in gloss black. The control bore section of the barrel back is almost 6" long. Another good kit is the freak kit. You can get them with 8 inserts for around $100 that will take care of any size paint you are likely to shoot. The inserts are 6" long, but a little fragile. The Dye UL kit is quite expensive and very well made as is the Macdev Shift kit and the WGP Kaner. The UL and Kaner both have multiple barrel backs. The Shift kit has inserts.

O-ring kit:
At some time in the life of your gun you will need spare o-rings. Get a kit that contains multiples of each o-ring size your gun uses. Some times you will damage an o-ring during use or when working on your gun. Some times they just wear out. The kits that are multiple bags of o-rings are inexpensive, but might not be enough. Spend a little more money and get a kit that contains spare screws and other parts that your gun might go through or lose. For every gun I own I have a kit for it.

Tools:
Spend $15 and get a set of allen wrenches that you can take with you when you go playing PB. Being able to service a down gun on the spot means you are back in the game all the sooner.

Lube:
DOW33 is great for just about anything on any gun. I put it on my barrel and ASA threads so they screw together easier. It is o-ring safe and wont cause them to swell or deteriorate. It works well in most guns as a bolt and regulator lube. Get some Monkey Poo or Hater Sauce. They are a little slicker and thinner than DOW33 and work well in cold (40 degrees and lower) conditions and will work well in warm weather too. I use DOW33 for everything except the bolt in my guns. For the bolt I use Hater Sauce usually. Most gun makers have their own lube and they almost always swear that their lube is the only thing to use in their guns. I have been told by several manufacturers that anything other than their lube will void the warranty or cause damage to the gun. It's just noise so you will buy grease from them. You can use any of the greases mentioned above in just about any gun and they all work fine. I have a variety of oils and greases that are o-ring safe and can say that all you really need in most cases is DOW33. Don't get DOW44 as it will cause o-ring swelling which will cause problems.

Get a gear bag or tool box so you can carry your stuff with you.

Stuff to NOT get:
1. Don't get remotes. They allow you to put your bottle on your back and attach an extension coiled hose to the bottle on your back to the gun. They add complications to your set up. The air hose keeps you from switching sides easily as it gets in the way when pulled across your chest. Filling your air bottle is nearly impossible without help since it's in the middle of your back where you can't get at it. Also you have a valve you have to open/close which is on top of the bottle in the middle of your back. Very inconvenient all the way around! Attaching the bottle right into the ASA on the gun gives you a natural shoulder stock which helps with gun stability.

2. If you are into MILSIM then ignore this. Sites, scopes, stocks, rails and other stuff mounted on your gun will not help you one bit with better accuracy or consistency and will only make your gun heavier and more cumbersome. If you can't site down your gun and hit your target within a 10" area, practice more and even 10 inches is a big target. All that stuff is a waste of time and money. I look down the sides of my gun and shoot paint balls off the ground that are 30-60 feet away. I know people who throw paint balls into the air and shoot them. Sites and scopes won't get you better than that and will just slow you down.
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Last edited by rkenders : 01-22-2012 at 09:32 AM.
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Old 02-06-2012, 03:18 PM #15
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Pbnation is the best place to get everything you need in my opinion.
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Old 02-06-2012, 08:35 PM #16
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Old 02-06-2012, 08:38 PM #17
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But we give you a membership, and we honner the manufacture warranty in house
And (subject to availability) you sell used markers as well! Can't miss at Paintball Explosions store or field.
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Old 02-08-2012, 08:20 PM #18
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Ok i read here is what i would suggest Tippmann A-5 hopper already built into the gun, cost a little more but tippmann are like tanks they last forever, plus parts are everywhere for them then for an air supply avoid CO2 all together go with a basic 68 ci 4500 tank, it will last you a long time, then buy sly profit masks


3 x Tippmann A-5 $537

3 x Ninja 68/45 $464.85

3 x Sly Profit Masks $269.85

Price per person is about $423

Grand Total $1,271.70

dont buy a mini or a speedball gun i had a mini they do NOT work great all year round if you plan to play all year
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Old 02-09-2012, 01:31 PM #19
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But we give you a membership, and we honner the manufacture warranty in house
This applies to any new marker purchased in the pro shop correct?
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Old 02-09-2012, 01:58 PM #20
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Old 02-09-2012, 03:02 PM #21
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I think your on the right track here the guys at PBE are a good bunch, and your going the right direction with the Invert-Mini, for air would go with a Ninja the guys PBE should beable to help you with that (FYI if you like supporting local industry Ninja is a IL based company) , for loaders I would go with something at leaset agitated if not force feed, I don't know what PBE has but discountpaintball (which is a local business as well ) has

http://www.discountpaintball.com/Vie...ck_p_5572.html
http://www.discountpaintball.com/Vie...ck_p_4021.html

both good performers for around $40.00

The one last piece of advice I can give you is don't skimp on your goggles the worst thing you can do is get some cheap goggles that are a pain the butt to maintain and are constantly fogging on you, but that being said you don't have to spend a arm and a leg either.. empire/invert makes these http://www.empirepaintball.com/paint...goggle-thermal in green and black essentially an hard plastic version of one of there higher end goggles, they are inexpensive, durable, and the lenses are the same as there higher end models so they are well made and easy to change out.


Anyway that's my 2 cents hope to see you out at PBE.
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