I'll be updating this thread with info regarding project - Shimmy
I've had several Shockers over the years. I've liked how they shoot and point, but I have never really liked the triggers. I played NPPL for many years, so having a "perfect for me" trigger is extremely important due to the fact that semi-auto requires a ton more work than ramping. If I was ramping, then trigger feel wouldn't be as nearly as important.
Anyways, I'm not sure if it was due to the fact that I'm a west coaster, but I've always thought that Timmy's had the best trigger geometry/feel of the popular guns out there. I really think that the shoulder screw used for the pivot point does an awesome job of capturing bearings, providing a good platform for a completely slack/wobble free trigger. I also like the close spacing of the web of your hand and the trigger itself. While this requires a vertical solenoid, I do feel that it allows me to wrap my fingers further around the actual trigger, and pull it faster and more comfortably while keeping a firm grip on the gun with my thumb.
This project was born out of taking a look at my parts box, and realizing I have a ton of parts that could be used for tinkering
I'll be updating this thread over the next few weeks with my progress, hopefully it ends in success and not failure.
Here is a Z frame mocked up on the body. I also have a critical and empire frame that I may try out. I'm not sure if I like the huge "luxe-like" spacing that the Z frame is providing.
My first challenge is to figure out how to orient the solenoid in a vertical fashion, as Timmy frames do not have enough space to accommodate a horizontal one. CS900 has been doing some amazing magical work using the Luxe manifold to do just this. However, I am not a magician like him, so I decided to go with using hoses/barbs (just like in a stock Timmy).
I realize that going with hoses/barbs presents a couple of possible challenges:
1) Slower cycle rate due to the less direct air passages. Since PSP is capped at 12.5, and NPPL at 15, I realize I do not necessarily need a quick cycling gun. As a side effect, perhaps the slower cycle rate will be gentler on paint.
2) Shockers work at a much higher solenoid pressure that other guns using LP tubing. One of my huge worries is that the 160-180psi that Shockers need will blow the hoses off of the barbs. I guess I'll figure this out once I get there.
With the help/advice of CS900 (which I will probably be saying a lot during this build thread) I isolated the fire and rest solenoid transfer passages, and tapped them for M3 barbs. There wasn't enough space to have a 3rd barb in the area for the main air source, (especially since the passage is angled), so I will be plugging the normal hole, and using a factory sealed passage a inch or so away.
I hooked up a solenoid, and used an external LP source ~ 100psi. The Shocker itself was not gassed up at all, only the bolt fire/rest passages. Using the manual cycle button on the solenoid, I was able to get the Shocker bolt to shuttle back and forth perfectly. When holding down the manual cycle button, I was getting some air venting out of one of the air source passages, which may be normal, or perhaps I need to change out some orings on the bolt.
Next steps will be to plug the stock air source passage, unplug the factory sealed one and tap it for M3 barbs. I have some 90 degree barbs on their way to me which may make routing the hosing easier.
I got the new air passage tapped and barb installed. I still need to plug the stock air passage. It's drilled at an angle, which is making me a bit paranoid about tapping and inserting a grub screw to plug it. I did go by the hardware store and they didn't have 4-40 taps (sad), so I'm debating on just using a dab of JB weld to plug it. Anyone have any other ideas?
I chopped the front of the frame down and tried to contour it to the VA as much as I could. Front screw fits nicely. I'll have to drill/tap the rear screw hole though. Ordered a 10/32 bottom tap and endmill bit. Gonna start it with a normal drill bit, then finish it with the endmill so I get a flat bottom without poking into the body. Then I'll start the tapping with a normal plug tap, then finish it with the bottom tap. Going to be scary but fun! I was also really glad to see that there was more than enough clearance for the hoses within the frame, even if I don't use a 90 degree elbow.
I also got a hopper/tank on the sucker so I could shoulder it. Shoulders very nicely, felt great. Glad I'm going through with this project. I really liked moving the grip towards the back of the gun, as it relatively moves the hopper further forward on the gun. This will help a ton with running and shooting while hunching over your gun since you won't have to worry about a hopper smacking you in the head with every step.
Been a while since the last update. Been working on getting my workshop ready for primetime. Moving all the tools in this weekend so I'll be able to do all my drill press necessary operations then. We just finished painting the space - check it out.
I did get a chance to make a quick video showing the system manually cycling, along with the leak that occurs when the bolt is in the forward position. Please take a look and let me know if this is normal.
Yep, I'm still alive. Millions of things got in the way, but I dusted this project off and did a bit of work today.
I decided to use an LPR, mainly because I'm a bit afraid of sending ~ 180psi through hoses and barbs to a solenoid. I did get a solenoid rated up to 300psi, so I'm not worried about that, I'm mainly worried about blowing -Lhoses off of barbs. I also imagine that dropping the cocking pressure a bit should reduce kick a tiny amount (probably not noticeable) as a side benefit.
I used the gauge port to fit a 90 degree elbow and used a plain old cocker LPR.
I then trimmed a bit out of the front edge of the trigger frame to allow the hose to neatly route into the frame.
This was the first time having the firing and cocking sides both gassed up. Set the HPR to 180psi, and turned up the LPR while manually cycling the solenoid. Shot a couple of balls (awkwardly since I had to use the solenoid button), and was shooting ~ 320 fps. Very good sign.
Next step will be electronics.
Today was dedicated to EYES!
Using the schematic at ZDSPB, I was able to figure out what the stock eyes were pined out to. Eyes are made up of 2 parts, a emitter, and a detector. Both of them have 2 wires each. Both the emitter and detector require an input voltage of some sort, which is 1 of the wires. The other wire can be looked at as a "signal" wire, which via voltage pulses or droops, will let the board know what is going on.
According to the schematic, Shocker eyes want a voltage of 3.75v. This made me a bit nervous, as Timmy eyes are spec'ed at a voltage of 5v. I decided to try em out anyways. If this didn't work, my backup plan was to figure out a way to wire Timmy eyes directly into the Shocker. I wanted to avoid this though, as it would require me to make modifications to the body and eye covers.
So, after some detective work, I was able to figure out the pinout of the Timmy harness (no fancy schematic for this), and then moved onto soldering. As most of you know, the Shocker eyes use a thin ribbon cable. I took one look at it and knew soldering it would be near impossible. I then remembered that the ribbon plugs into the upper board in a nice little slot with pins that interface to the upper board. I unsoldered that plug from the upper, and then soldered leads to the exposed pins. That was still extremely difficult to do. I used some harvested wire from an old IDE cable. After about 20 min, I had all 4 wires done.
Testing was a success, and I then placed a bunch of hot glue over the plug to make sure I would never ever have to solder something that small again in my life.
Here's the pics - not much to look at, but I'm proud of it, took a lot of time to do
Most project guns look uglier than sin until they're done. I personally love timmy triggers/frames over most Shockers, but love the feel of a shooting shocker over a timmy. This would be the best of both worlds for me to see.
there any way to move the frame forward a bit so the back of the fame lines up with the indent on the back of the body. Would make it look 100X better.
I totally plan on doing this. My current priority is getting the air passages taken care of, then I'll start working on fine tuning the fitment. I'll probably move the frame up a bit until it is flush, and perhaps use a SFT vert adapter if I don't need the longer reach of the NXT one.
Originally Posted by smartparts07
thats pretty sweet is it lighter with the timmy frame or heavier?
Hard to say with the Z frame. With the critical frame, it is definitely a bit lighter.
Originally Posted by Umami
There any chance you have a Gen 4 frame floating around? That would be HOT.
That would definitely look awesome. Unfortunately, I pretty much skipped the Gen4 of Timmys due to the whole balanced valve thing causing reliability issues. I don't have any Gen4 specific parts at all. Got a ton of Gen 1-3 stuff though. Pretty much the whole reason I started this project.
Thread updated with my work for 1/1/2012. Let me know what you guys think. Might be a few days before my next update, as a couple of the steps I'll need to be taking require a drill press. My workshop is currently in the process of moving/being setup, so be patient with me.
I may start on some of the electronics while I wait.
1) don't use JB weld. do it the right way and tap the hole for a 4-40 set screw and loctite it closed. JB weld is a last resort tool
2) don't worry about using a square end mill for the back frame threads. even a bottoming tap still have leadin threads that will make it a useless step.
Thanks for the advice yet again. I'm going to have to send you a bottle of your favorite liquor when this is all said and done.
Do you have any advice on tapping that angled passage? I'm freaked out that I'll accidentally join 2 passage that shouldn't be if I don't have the tap at the correct angle. Or do I have a bit of leeway and shouldn't be a wuss about it and just do it?
"Originally posted by 63VDub: Or, you could go to that thread and find your own info. That would make two self informed people, and that's dangerous, risky, and a threat to the establishment!"