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Old 12-19-2011, 09:21 AM #1
WJS
 
 
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Potential buyer

So I'm ready to pull the trigger on the 9.1 sniper rifle but I'm a little hesitant because I've never used a first strike paintball gun and a friend of mine, who had the T4, sold his because he was unhappy with chopping and the first strike rounds (no details yet).

How happy are the owners of the 9.1 rifle? I'm expecting great results with the included Lapco rifled barrel and the first strike rounds. Am I expecting too much? 25 times the accuracy is what they're pitching and what I'm expecting. I don't plan to use standard paintballs in this gun; strictly first strike rounds.
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Old 12-19-2011, 10:31 AM #2
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I bought a used t9 with first strike and I am nothing but happy with it. It is that accurate and I have tons of fun using the magizines instead of hoppers. The only downside is the cost of first strike and the fact that you wont be able to carry as much paint so make every shot count!
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Old 12-19-2011, 10:37 AM #3
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FYI. If you do end up picking up a t9.1 and are using it strictly for sniper-ing, I highly recommend carrying an extra marker or sidearm. Once someone gets close enough that your in their range, Its alot harder to compete with that 8-round magazine against there 200-round hopper!
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Old 12-19-2011, 11:14 AM #4
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Originally Posted by MulishaSoldier929 View Post
FYI. If you do end up picking up a t9.1 and are using it strictly for sniper-ing, I highly recommend carrying an extra marker or sidearm. Once someone gets close enough that your in their range, Its alot harder to compete with that 8-round magazine against there 200-round hopper!
That's Good Advice! It had crossed my mind but I'm not sure how my field feels about sidearms. I'm sure it's okay because they're very big into woods ball and MILSIM.

One other question, if you play the field that is field paint only have you run into any problems using the first strike rounds if they don't sell them there?
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Old 12-19-2011, 11:46 AM #5
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Yeah when I first started playing with my Tiberius I didn't have a side arm and would get out gunned when someone closed in. Now I run with a sling on my t9 rifle so I can throw it on my back and pull out my t8.1 If I have too. Works out quite well.

I took the t9 to a field once and they didn't have any problems with me having a side arm or bringing first strike. Could be different where your at so I would call ahead of time b4 making the trip.
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Old 12-19-2011, 12:25 PM #6
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So what about the gun itself and using it? I guess I mean, how exactly do you use it; as a sniper rifle? Do you stay low and wait for targets to approach you? Is the scope useful? I was thinking a shotgun scope with lower adjustable magnification would work better than the 4x scope it comes with.

I'm imagining I am going to use this in a mostly prone position waiting for targets to approach, eliminating as many as I can before being spotted and that being it. Camo is obviously important to this role. I fully expect to get shot out after eliminating one or more targets so the better the range the longer I can stay hidden.

How loud is this gun and has anyone been able to add a suppressor?

I know, a lot of questions. Take them one at a time.
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Old 12-19-2011, 12:56 PM #7
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WJS,

Couple thoughts that I hope help. I'm not trying to make your decisions for you, just hoping my experience can aid you in some way. For reference, I've been through many, many FS boxes and hopefully can give you realistic perspective on them. (With both 8.1/9.1 pistols, and a 9.1 with the rifled barrel.)

"25 times more accurate" - It's a hard image to quantify, compare, and to live up to while you are on the field. If you are obsessed with magical "25X Better" you may be setting yourself up for disappointment depending on how you measure it.

Instead of "25x better" I prefer the following positive descriptions of first strike use:
  • Effective range that exceeds flatline/apex barrels.
  • Accurate enough that one or two well placed shots is all that's needed most of the time.
  • MUCH flatter trajectory then a paintball. Allowing you to take long shots in areas where the arc of a longball paintball would hit brush or low hanging branches.
  • FS rounds stay true and round in high humidity, heat, and cold. They are much more durable than a standard paintball. If conditions are rough outside, you can be more confident slapping in a magazine of FS than paintballs.


Some things to keep in mind to keep your expectations at a realistic level:
  • FS are more precise/accurate. They are NOT heat seeking missiles.
  • Precision (accuracy) is good enough where your experience/skill as a marksman is far more important then typical paintball. Proper breathing, stable shooting position, clean trigger pull can all make the difference between a hit or a miss. If you miss a mid-long shot with a first strike on a clear target, chances are you did something wrong. You can't just blame a miss on a FS like you can a bad paintball.
  • Optics/Sights NEED to be zeroed in. This might be obvious to some. But I've met plenty of people expecting that a scope or red dot to be on the mark right out of the box. They are NOT. Then when they can't hit the target they think "Fist strikes aren't accurate, they never hit the crosshair" Don't be that guy. Plan to go through at least 30 FS rounds getting your sights properly zero'd at your preferred range.
  • Experience at gauging distance is very important and ties into the above, "if you missed, it was your fault". When you zero in your sight/scope you are doing so at a particular range. When shooting at something farther then that range, you need to place the crosshair above your target. The "sniper" package comes with a range adjustable sight rail. This can help, but you still need experience to gauge the distance properly, and then some trial and error to determine how many clicks to adjust the special rail.
  • Longballing with paintballs, you are often hopping for that rare lucky paintball that flies just right. With first strikes you are hopping you don't get that rare FS with a chipped fin that will spin off target in a wild corkscrew maneuver. They are rare, but do happen.

Tips:
  1. Use the red spring in your magazines. Especially since you are using the rifled barrel and only first strikes. The red springs in the magazines ensure a much more consistent feed reducing the chance of a misfeed over the stock silver mag springs. Don't worry. The red springs come with any new magazines and are very easy to change out. The reason they ship with the silver spring installed is that the red mag spring is too strong for regular paintballs and tends to crush them
  2. Practice. Practice. Practice. At the start you really need to spend a good deal of time on the target range instead of the field. Zeroing in the sight and getting a feel for the ranges. Many fields will let you come out and use the target range even if you aren't playing in games. If yours is like that. Save the admission fee one day and just hit the range with a case. (Or use your backyard/back woods if you are lucky enough to have access to them.)
  3. Give it time. Commit to going through at least one (or two) 100 round case in active play before making any decision on if FS sniping is for you. If you only go through half a case of first strikes before you give up with "these are cool, but not as accurate as I thought" you will never realize the true potential. It takes experience and dedication to get the most out of FS.
  4. Setup Cost. For your budget, you need to not only figure out how the marker, mags and First Strike rounds will cost. You also need a way to carry those mags. Mag pouches, vest/belt, and dump pouches cost money too.


Bottom line. First strikes are a fun and new exciting way to play paintball. It's a drastic change from the spray and prey style of play. It's not for everyone and takes more skill to use properly then a ramping electro. That's ok by me. I like seeing different styles of play on the same rec fields. Things were getting stale for a while with everyone shooting and playing just like they do on the speedball fields.

...
One other thing to keep in mind. FS play is just one way to play a limited paint style. Much of the moving, hiding, and wiating for just the right shot you do with FS. You also do with Pistols, Stock class pumps, and 30 round tac capped Tippmanns. They all give you motivation to "one shot" and the exhilaration that comes with it.

If you are unsure if limited paint is for you, and you've got a A5/X7/Phenom laying around. You could just toss a 30-40 round tac cap on it and pickup some of these 30 round pods: http://www.allenpaintball.com/pods.html
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Last edited by voodooaddict : 01-06-2012 at 01:45 AM. Reason: Some typos and clarification on "you can't blame a miss on a bad FS the same way you blame a bad paintball".
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Old 12-19-2011, 01:00 PM #8
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One other question, if you play the field that is field paint only have you run into any problems using the first strike rounds if they don't sell them there?
Many times if you call ahead and talk to the owner/general manager you can work something out. If you talk to a peon though, often they can't authorize it. Waiting till you arrive a the field to check is a bad idea. Sometime fields just simply won't allow it. Check with your regular field of choice first! before making the investment in a 9.1 Sniper.
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Old 12-19-2011, 01:12 PM #9
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voodooaddict, that was an amazing post! Thank You!

I'm going to reread that post a few times and digest it over the next day or so so I can fully consider all the options.

Thanks again.
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Old 12-19-2011, 01:19 PM #10
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^What he said lol

Its an expensive way to play but 4 me, its worth every penny. Voodoo is absolutely right on practicing with the first strike tho. She's a totally different animal that takes a little getting used too. When/if you do play with first strike try to think of the motto "One shot one kill" when you play. Because if your good enough with it, one shot is all you should need.
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Old 12-19-2011, 01:44 PM #11
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Yeah I guess I put a bit into that one.

I think I'm just tired of people picking up a single tube of first strikes for a new 9.1/8.1, trying them and going "meh".

There's plenty of other posts around about maintenance and care of the 9.1 so I left that stuff out of it. But maintenance and knowing how any mechanical marker works is key to being happy with it for a long time.
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Old 12-19-2011, 03:35 PM #12
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Second what people have said about the secondary marker... I usually have the t9 slung on my back and I run with my A5 + hopper as my main gun, if i need to stop and snipe someone out, i can pull out the t9...
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Old 01-05-2012, 06:50 PM #13
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Originally Posted by voodooaddict View Post
[list][*]FS are more precise/accurate. They are NOT heat seeking missiles.[*]Precision (accuracy) is good enough where your experience/skill as a marksman is far more important they typical paintball. Proper breathing, stable shooting position, clean trigger pull can all make the difference between a hit or a miss. If you miss a mid-long shot with a first strike on a clear target, chances are you did something wrong. You can't just blame a miss on a bad paintball.
no offense, but this is very ridiculous. first of all, proper breathing is not going to happen, its a paintball game and the kid is probably 14. second of all, proper breathing for paintball? are you serious? this isnt a 1000 yard shot where it needs to be absolutely perfect breath holding in order to make it. and yes, you can blame a miss on a bad paintball. these are not consistent at all. when a t9.1 can shoot anywhere from 265-280 between shots, its very hard to blame a drop or over shoot on the shooter. also, not all the first strikes are the same. this isnt professional sniping, and treating it like professional sniping isnt going to make any fun.
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Old 01-05-2012, 07:58 PM #14
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no offense, but this is very ridiculous. first of all, proper breathing is not going to happen, its a paintball game and the kid is probably 14. second of all, proper breathing for paintball? are you serious? this isnt a 1000 yard shot where it needs to be absolutely perfect breath holding in order to make it. and yes, you can blame a miss on a bad paintball. these are not consistent at all. when a t9.1 can shoot anywhere from 265-280 between shots, its very hard to blame a drop or over shoot on the shooter. also, not all the first strikes are the same. this isnt professional sniping, and treating it like professional sniping isnt going to make any fun.
Wow, dude; troll much? Does the expression, "haters going to hate" mean anything to you? Voodoo offers nothing but positive information and you flame in here offering nothing but negativity and nothing constructive. Does my post read like it was written by a 14-year-old? Your assumptions make you sound like an idiot. And speak for yourself when you say, professional sniping isn't going to make it much fun. Who said anything about being professional? Everything about paintball is fun but maybe not for you. Offer something positive or piss off because what's the point, otherwise? Freakin, Debbie-downer.... you must a lot of fun at parties.
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Old 01-05-2012, 08:01 PM #15
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no offense, but this is very ridiculous. first of all, proper breathing is not going to happen, its a paintball game and the kid is probably 14. second of all, proper breathing for paintball? are you serious? this isnt a 1000 yard shot where it needs to be absolutely perfect breath holding in order to make it. and yes, you can blame a miss on a bad paintball. these are not consistent at all. when a t9.1 can shoot anywhere from 265-280 between shots, its very hard to blame a drop or over shoot on the shooter. also, not all the first strikes are the same. this isnt professional sniping, and treating it like professional sniping isnt going to make any fun.
You are welcome to your opinion. Here's mine:

- Proper breathing helps with real steel on 30, 50, and 100yard shots ... not just 1000 yard shots. IMHO it's extra important when you are running around and shooting from un-stabilized positions. You are breathing heavy. If proper aim wasn't important, what are we doing using first strike rounds at all?

- I was learning and shooting with proper breathing at 14 (couple decades ago now). No reason he can't, and no reason to assume that he's 14.

- If your 9.1 is that inconsistent (fps) with first strikes I suggest you rebuild the regulator and/or use a different input pressure/tank. These regulators aren't fully balanced, inconsistent input pressure leads to inconsistent FPS. My constant air (Ninja Reg set @ 650psi) 9.1 Tiberius at most might swing 10FPS on a bad shot but are most often within +/-5 FPS. A 5FPS swing is not enough to badly miss an open shot on someone's torso. CO2 can certainly give you a really big swing... but if that's the case, why blame the marker or the FS?

- Bad paintballs yes... bad first strikes happen, but not often. FS are very consistent in the size/shape/wieght. You will occasionally get one with a chipped fin... If you are careful you can minimize the impact of chipped rounds, by saving them for other uses. I put them aside for the pistols or chronoing. You hand load each round into the mags... take the extra half second to check them ahead of time.

- Treating it like sniping and using proper marksmanship behaviors is exactly what makes it fun for many of us. If you don't like slowing things down, taking your time, and making every shot memorable, hit or miss. Then be happy, and stick to regular paintballs. FS is not for everyone and that's ok. It wouldn't be as dynamic and interesting if everyone out there used limited paint FS setups.

I'm sorry you haven't been happy with your setup and first strikes. I on the other had have been. I'm glad we both have a place to share our opinions.
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Last edited by voodooaddict : 01-05-2012 at 08:06 PM. Reason: Formating for easier reading.
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Old 01-05-2012, 10:12 PM #16
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Wow, dude; troll much? Does the expression, "haters going to hate" mean anything to you? Voodoo offers nothing but positive information and you flame in here offering nothing but negativity and nothing constructive. Does my post read like it was written by a 14-year-old? Your assumptions make you sound like an idiot. And speak for yourself when you say, professional sniping isn't going to make it much fun. Who said anything about being professional? Everything about paintball is fun but maybe not for you. Offer something positive or piss off because what's the point, otherwise? Freakin, Debbie-downer.... you must a lot of fun at parties.
you just trolled me. i wasnt trolling, i was giving my opinion on first strikes and t9.1s, considering i have more experience with them than you do i have room to talk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by voodooaddict View Post
You are welcome to your opinion. Here's mine:

- Proper breathing helps with real steel on 30, 50, and 100yard shots ... not just 1000 yard shots. IMHO it's extra important when you are running around and shooting from un-stabilized positions. You are breathing heavy. If proper aim wasn't important, what are we doing using first strike rounds at all?

- I was learning and shooting with proper breathing at 14 (couple decades ago now). No reason he can't, and no reason to assume that he's 14.

- If your 9.1 is that inconsistent (fps) with first strikes I suggest you rebuild the regulator and/or use a different input pressure/tank. These regulators aren't fully balanced, inconsistent input pressure leads to inconsistent FPS. My constant air (Ninja Reg set @ 650psi) 9.1 Tiberius at most might swing 10FPS on a bad shot but are most often within +/-5 FPS. A 5FPS swing is not enough to badly miss an open shot on someone's torso. CO2 can certainly give you a really big swing... but if that's the case, why blame the marker or the FS?

- Bad paintballs yes... bad first strikes happen, but not often. FS are very consistent in the size/shape/wieght. You will occasionally get one with a chipped fin... If you are careful you can minimize the impact of chipped rounds, by saving them for other uses. I put them aside for the pistols or chronoing. You hand load each round into the mags... take the extra half second to check them ahead of time.

- Treating it like sniping and using proper marksmanship behaviors is exactly what makes it fun for many of us. If you don't like slowing things down, taking your time, and making every shot memorable, hit or miss. Then be happy, and stick to regular paintballs. FS is not for everyone and that's ok. It wouldn't be as dynamic and interesting if everyone out there used limited paint FS setups.

I'm sorry you haven't been happy with your setup and first strikes. I on the other had have been. I'm glad we both have a place to share our opinions.
i never said i was unhappy with my set up. i love first strike rounds and my 9.1. the for sale thread is closed, it was a different 9.1 i bought used as a fixer upper and sold it. i guess the difference is that im not hanging back when i use first strikes, i still play somewhat in the front lines, but im not one to hang back. i mean if you are sniping, i guess those things could affect you, but they really dont for me. i wasnt trying to be rude. i guess i just have a different experience with them
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Old 01-05-2012, 11:22 PM #17
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you just trolled me. i wasnt trolling, i was giving my opinion on first strikes and t9.1s, considering i have more experience with them than you do i have room to talk.
It didn't read that way to me. My point is, the effort and time voodoo put into his posts deserves respect. You're welcome to share your opinion. Had you put in that effort in your post I would not have responded the way I did.
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Old 01-06-2012, 01:31 AM #18
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i never said i was unhappy with my set up. i love first strike rounds and my 9.1. the for sale thread is closed, it was a different 9.1 i bought used as a fixer upper and sold it. i guess the difference is that im not hanging back when i use first strikes, i still play somewhat in the front lines, but im not one to hang back. i mean if you are sniping, i guess those things could affect you, but they really dont for me. i wasnt trying to be rude. i guess i just have a different experience with them
Sorry, I guess I guess wrongly assumed with the tone that you didn't like FS or your setup, or keep using them.

Maybe I also incorrectly assumed WJS was interested in the sniping aspects of the FS? Sniping style play is where you see the largest difference moving from a regular paintball.

That said. I'm like you, my preference is not to hang back and my mains now are a 9.1 in pistol form (mini-red dot) with an 8.1 as the secondary both using FS only. I still find myself making some simply amazing shots with the FS in pistol form. And find them well worth the $$ for a limited paint player. The 9.1 rifle (with rifled FS barrel and bi-pod) comes out after the inevitable injury (ankles and broken toes seem to be my usual the past few years). I'm able to hang back, take it easy and still have a good time, even when I can't move quickly up in the fray.

With the pistols... the reasons I'm using first strikes are pretty simple. The added range helps make my limited supply of shots on the field far more useful. The added durability of the rounds means that I can leave them sprung in the magazines longer and in hotter weather then regular paintballs and know that when I pull the trigger I'll get a solid shot.

If you can afford to use them regularly, and realistically manage your expectations ... FS are a great way to play limited paint.
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Old 01-06-2012, 04:56 PM #19
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Sorry guys I didn't mean for my answer to sound rude. And wjs, if you want the bestanswer to your question, here it is. Nothing is more satisfying than shooting someone in one or two shots from well over 150 feet. Especially when they have a nice ego or luxe. Seriously, if you can live with less paint but have way greater range and accuracy than get it. Just keep in mind that you'll want good gear and accessories to have an optimal mag fed experience. More to come when im not at work about this.

so first of all, you want a way to carry this new gear. youre going to want more than just the single magazine they give you. youre going to want to have a place to put these extra magazines. I have tried my pockets, it doesnt work. its too heavy and just flaps around. so youll probably want some kind of molle rig and get mag pouches. you could actually just use pod a pouch with a completely sealed end (like the valkens) they fit two tiberius mags. i use the full clip mag pouches. they are okay, but are very tight so its hard to put the mags back in during a game, so i just use a dump pouch.

you also want to decide what you want as your air source. you can use 12g, a large co2 tank, or hpa. if youre looking for most consistency, i would go with an hpa tank. now if you think these are too large, i would look into the tank in stock. you can get roughly 150 shots out of a brand new t9.1 off of the 13 cu in 3000 psi tank. now you may think thats not enough, but considering youre probably never going to shoot more than that in a single game or scenario (before you get shot out), it is plenty. trust me. 12g are very nice and light, you get roughly 3 mag fills on a single 12 gram (shoot 8 rounds through the mag and refill it with paint). i have 4 mags, so i can shoot 96 shoots before i have to change a single 12g, which is plenty for mag fed. but if you go 12 grams, you may want to look at getting a 12 gram pouch (i use dye's which holds 12 12 grams and i have tippmanns tpx holster. it holds 3 12gs in a pouch and has 2 elastic loops on the outside which i use to hold 10 round tubes) 12 grams are awesome because they are light and you dont have a tank anywhere, which i dont like.

now if you ever want to run your t9.1 as a pistol (which is very fun), you may want to look into getting a holster. there are many types of holsters you can get. there are ones that go on your vest (molle holsters), belt holsters, and drop leg holsters. i personally like drop leg because i dont have room for it on my vest and its more comfortable than a belt holster (digs into my side and hip). like i said before, i use the tippmann holster. its awesome. it has dual leg straps so its very secure. its also very versatile, you can use it on your right or left side. has a velcro section on the outside where they attack the 12g pouch (also uses snap buttons). it also has a mag pouch. i put 3 12 grams in the 12 gram pouch, 2 10 round tubes in the elastic bands on the outside, and 2 ten round tubes in the mag pouch (i have all my mags on my vest). this is a great holster, its the same price as the rap4 and full clip holsters but they dont have the mag holsters and co2 pouches. (the rap4 has some kind of pouch but i dont know what)

as for vests, there are many options. i definitely suggest a molle vest so you can put your own pouches on there and anywhere you want. now you can get a chest rig which just has a front with just the straps on the back (very good for pistol play). i dont like them because i need atleast one pod and i dont have room on the front for it. there are plate carriers. these will give you the most room to put molle stuff because it has molle webbing on the front (without a zipper interrupting it) on the side and back. they are also the hottest and heaviest. you can also get just a normal tack vest (hydration vest). its usually mesh on the front or front and back and has a bladder pouch. has minimal room for pods and tanks on the back (i run a vertical tank, and i only have room for the tank and 2 pods on the back. if i ran a horizontal one, i could have 4 pods.) i use one made condor, it has a nice padded back (which can get hot) and a mesh front. it velcro on the front for patches and on the back for a long patch (callsign, team name, whatever).

my complete set up is a condor hydration molle vest, a full clip vertical tank pouch and valken 2 pod pouch on the back. on the front i have a dye 12g pouch, a full clip 3 mag pouch and a full clip large general usage pouch (i use a dump pouch for mags, 12g, and 10 round tubes). then i have the tippmann drop leg holster. on the front of my dump pouch, it has molle webbing, so i can use that to hold 4 more ten round tubes. this is my optimal set up for pistol and rifle mag fed play.

i forgot to say, if youre running first strikes, i would just use a 100 round or 2 50 round pods to carry them. i found that 10 round tubes take just as long to use as pods to fill up mags of first strike rounds since you have to hand feed them anyway. so when im not using 12g, ill put my valken pod pouch up front with the opening facing up so i can just keep the pod in there and hand feed the first strike round in the mags to reload them.
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Last edited by robot0ninja : 01-08-2012 at 01:51 PM.
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Old 01-08-2012, 01:51 PM #20
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more info, hope it helps
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Old 01-08-2012, 05:02 PM #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robot0ninja View Post
i forgot to say, if youre running first strikes, i would just use a 100 round or 2 50 round pods to carry them. i found that 10 round tubes take just as long to use as pods to fill up mags of first strike rounds since you have to hand feed them anyway. so when im not using 12g, ill put my valken pod pouch up front with the opening facing up so i can just keep the pod in there and hand feed the first strike round in the mags to reload them.
Very cool idea. I will have to give the 100 round pods a try. I've got a box full of 100 round tubes from back in the 90's. Currently I keep a few 10 round tubes full (13 FS per tube) on my vest rig for long reinsertion style games.

It also sounds like the absolute perfect way to carry them the for single shot FS JR2 and traccer pumps I've been planning to mod.
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