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Old 05-19-2016, 12:47 PM #1
romanlynch
 
 
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DM5 with a back cap leak

I read the basic leak thread in the sticky, I've replaced all of the o-rings on the bolt assembly with what the diagram showed, I greased everything with Tech T gun sav. When I air up the gun there is still a leak out the back cap and the gun won't cycle at all but I can hear the solenoid click. If I cover the hole in the back cap it will 1/2 cycle. What I mean by that is covering the hole the bolt will go forward all the way and when I take my thumb off the back cap the bolt only returns 1/2 way back. Not enough for another paintball to enter the chamber.

I'm new to this gun, bought it with a bunch of other stuff so I'm trying to learn how to properly maintain it. What can I check? I don't know what the hpr or lpr are set to or what the board is set to. Any help is appreciated.
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Old 05-19-2016, 01:14 PM #2
Razgriz2006
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Sounds like the 009s you have on the bolt tail are too small.

You could try a different durometer of oring, look at all your orings to try to find a bigger one, use Teflon tape on the oring gland, or use an oring swelling lube on that spot only.
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Old 05-19-2016, 01:51 PM #3
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Even with the leak out the backcap (of which the only possible culprit is the rear tail oring, like Raz said) there sounds like there's another issue. A leaking backcap should still allow the gun to cycle. If you don't hear any other leaks, your LPR is probably set too low.
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Old 05-19-2016, 03:02 PM #4
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So try a 010 oring? As soon as I get the leak fix I was going to try and figure out the reg situation. The lpr is the allen underneath the back cap right? I saw there was a "Fine tune your dm" or something like that in the sticky, is that a good one to go off of or just follow the manual for initial adjustment?
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Old 05-19-2016, 04:41 PM #5
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Well I replaced the very back oring with a 010 and no leak out the back cap....... now just a leak down the barrel lol. Leaving work now so I'll mess with this tomorrow.
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Old 05-19-2016, 05:13 PM #6
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verify you dont have bolt tip gouges or deep scratches
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Old 05-23-2016, 04:14 PM #7
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The chamber does not have any scratches. Looking at the diagram I replaced 4 o-rings and it still leaks down the barrel.

Front wall internal (017)
Outer sleeve (020)
Top hat (017)
Top hat (013)

Guess I should ask, the diagram states #5 & 6 as UR70. I'm using a players kit jr set of o-rings and it does not state UR70 for any of them. What's the difference, are they the same size but thicker?
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Old 05-23-2016, 08:42 PM #8
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UR70 means urethane 70, 70 being the durometer, or "hardness" of the oring. A regular Buna-N 70 oring should work fine.

How fast is the leak and how tightly/loosely do your orings fit? It's possible that the kit has some incorrect labels and you're using the wrong size oring(s). Those orings you replaced should have gotten rid of the leak.

Also, is the bolt all the way back when it leaks? It's not sticking forward, is it?
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Old 05-23-2016, 09:53 PM #9
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Change the 007 in the HPR and the 006 in the LPR. Just do it and be done with them for 4-5yrs. Pick them out clean, use air to clear bits out, load new oring in pen body & push it in place. Buna is fine if no UR, not a fan of URs there anyway. They rot out.

Your back cap leak... I sold ~20 or so earlier DM/PM last year, 2 PM5s had bad back caps as verified by swapping parts, both looked mint. Some tolerance issues in production? They sold an updated one after the PM5... Youll never make it on an 010 on that bolt, I never did anyway. Have to swap back cap.

I might have one of those updated PM5 backs in the bins. Bought several NIB when they came up for sale, after having 2 bad ones
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Old 05-24-2016, 07:14 AM #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyronejk View Post
UR70 means urethane 70, 70 being the durometer, or "hardness" of the oring. A regular Buna-N 70 oring should work fine.

How fast is the leak and how tightly/loosely do your orings fit? It's possible that the kit has some incorrect labels and you're using the wrong size oring(s). Those orings you replaced should have gotten rid of the leak.

Also, is the bolt all the way back when it leaks? It's not sticking forward, is it?
It's a fairly slow leak, you can barely feel it. I did push the bolt all the way back so it was not in the chamber at all.

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Change the 007 in the HPR and the 006 in the LPR. Just do it and be done with them for 4-5yrs. Pick them out clean, use air to clear bits out, load new oring in pen body & push it in place. Buna is fine if no UR, not a fan of URs there anyway. They rot out.

Your back cap leak... I sold ~20 or so earlier DM/PM last year, 2 PM5s had bad back caps as verified by swapping parts, both looked mint. Some tolerance issues in production? They sold an updated one after the PM5... Youll never make it on an 010 on that bolt, I never did anyway. Have to swap back cap.

I might have one of those updated PM5 backs in the bins. Bought several NIB when they came up for sale, after having 2 bad ones
The back cap leak was fixed when I put all new orings in the first time. It now leaks a little down the barrel/feedneck. I'll rebuild the regs when I figure out the leak. I didn't think that a PM rear cap was the same size as a DM?

The only thing I noticed was that on the bolt stem there is a very small step down. If you run your finger from the inside bolt stem oring (#3 in diagram) towards the front of the bolt right before it goes from the size of a pencil to the size of a dime there is a step down. It seems even but I don't know if this could be wear? I'll get a picture over lunch break.
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Old 05-24-2016, 10:46 AM #11
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^ my bad I read DM. Never had problems with DM5 back cap.

The stepdown is by design, normal.

Still recommend starting with HPR/LPR. Leaks there can let pressure past that may cause symptoms downstream. IMO this should be step #1 on any Matrix >5yrs old as UR rings degrade with age, and teh ones DYE used seem to give up the ghost around 5-8yrs.
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Old 05-24-2016, 01:31 PM #12
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Okay I will rebuild those tonight
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Old 05-25-2016, 11:10 PM #13
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I don't see the regs causing this issue, but it wouldn't hurt to rebuild those.

Quote:
Originally Posted by romanlynch View Post
It's a fairly slow leak, you can barely feel it. I did push the bolt all the way back so it was not in the chamber at all.
It could just be bad orings. If you have any Dow55, I'd put some of that on those 4 orings. If not, maybe try different orings. Where did you get the ones you have now?

Quote:
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The only thing I noticed was that on the bolt stem there is a very small step down. If you run your finger from the inside bolt stem oring (#3 in diagram) towards the front of the bolt right before it goes from the size of a pencil to the size of a dime there is a step down. It seems even but I don't know if this could be wear? I'll get a picture over lunch break.

Is this the part you're talking about? If so, it's normal. There's a slight step there.
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Old 05-31-2016, 11:26 AM #14
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Finally fixed up the leaky dm5 I picked up recently. Here's my experience:

Old grease had gummed up and all the uran orings (clear ones) basically melted. These are the interior orings, so I end up replacing all the orings off the bolt assembly, lpr, hpr, and on/off.

It still leaked, even after replacing the orings once, twice over. Leaking from the back cap, leaking down barrel, etc. Eventually, I figured out I simply wasn't throwing enough dow 33 on the sucker. If you're having leaks after your first rebuild, glob dow33 on the sucker. On the #9 orings, on the bolt sail, and a layer over each part of bolt the three internal orings slide over.

Turn off your eyes and dry fire a few times to get rid of the excess grease. See if that didn't quench the leak. If while rebuilding your bolt, you found your dm5 in the same condition as mine, the rest of the gun probably needs a rebuild as well.
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Old 06-27-2016, 04:33 PM #15
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So worked on this a little, went through both hpr and lpr and ended up finding the on/off knob orings were junk. Now it leaks like right above the hpr, seems like between the frame and the body. I took out the thing the reg screws into and found the oring on top of that. Maybe the on/off knob is leaking with new orings? Going to take that apart again an switch sizes to see if that fixes it.
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Old 06-27-2016, 04:34 PM #16
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Oh and it cycles fully now so that's a plus
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Old 06-27-2016, 04:40 PM #17
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Didn't think of this before but does the set screw that holds the on/off need thread sealer? What about the front frame screw?
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Old 06-27-2016, 05:10 PM #18
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Okay well got it fixed. I teflon taped the set screw for the on/off and also the front frame screw and no more leak thank god.
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Old 06-27-2016, 06:08 PM #19
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neither of those need teflon tape...so dont know what leak is not being diagnosed.. weird issue..
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Old 06-30-2016, 03:49 PM #20
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Congrats roman! Now let it rip on the field!
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Old 07-01-2016, 08:01 AM #21
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Quote:
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neither of those need teflon tape...so dont know what leak is not being diagnosed.. weird issue..
Well I don't know what to say then, leak stopped once I taped those :confusedsmileyface:
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