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Old 07-02-2014, 09:50 AM #1
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D3. Go big or go home .

It has come to my attention that there are far more d4 teams than d3. Why ? It's one division higher and the payout can be very rewarding !

Pgpl event 3 is in need of d3 teams to have the event run smoothly !

Maybe one of these hard nosed d4 teams can jump a division, to not only get better but to grow out of the first levels of the game .(d4/5)

5000 cash . The psp hardly hands that out in divisional play .

Sign up ! Help us run the event by addin more depth to the teams list .
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Old 07-02-2014, 04:55 PM #2
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I don't understand this thinking either... It's so hard for any series in the area to run a D3 division... Hopefully this changes next year and more teams will jump up.. With PGPL paying out $5000 you would think this series would jammed with teams...
I know me and my team are trying to do the last event.
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Old 07-02-2014, 11:09 PM #3
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Teams rather sit in d4 taking their chances at Luxes then step up to where they should be playing. It's been a local problem for years.

It's too bad the d4 prizes are so good if they weren't might motivate some guys to play up a level but that would just create another problem.

We made the commitment to step up and play d3 this year and won our second event after not finishing top 4 in d4 all last season in MAPL and it looks like because other teams won't step up were going to have to end up playing d4 again. We've grown tremendously with the competition in d3 and practices with race to 4. Just take the step.

Way too many good ballers in our area to be content playing d4 every year til you're forced up.
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Old 07-03-2014, 07:32 AM #4
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The other things I would think keeping players from stepping up would be the need for an expanded roster as well as the (slightly) higher cost. I'm not sure how many cases most of the teams are buying for the race 4 matches, but that could be a factor.
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Old 07-03-2014, 07:37 AM #5
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The other things I would think keeping players from stepping up would be the need for an expanded roster as well as the (slightly) higher cost. I'm not sure how many cases most of the teams are buying for the race 4 matches, but that could be a factor.
Could be but the costs aren't much more expensive. We had a team in both division and both placed and played in the finals and our d3 team spent maybe $75 more per player but also left with double of what they spent with money left over.

If you think about it really d4 saves on entry but pays more for paint. They also have less bodies to split everything with so if you shot 20 cases and you have 6 guys you're talking $183 plus $40 or so for entry. It adds up to about the same as D3 split between 9-12 guys essentially.

It could be rosters though but there's enough good teams and players at the playground alone to find bodies. We have so many quality players we had no choice but to start a d4 team also.
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Old 07-03-2014, 08:26 AM #6
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Dont forget that some local teams compete in d4 psp r4 abd r2. If they play a d3 event then they could be bumped mid season thus losing a series title etc
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Old 07-03-2014, 09:43 AM #7
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Stacks,

Thank you for posting something like this, it's a great way for me to get input from people I may not know, or even a potential team contemplating playing my league. I strive to format this league around the wants and needs of the players and value input wherever I can get it.

Here is what I have learned/observed in my short time as being a league owner:

The Bad: The seek for competition is dead in local paintball

Teams rather play a league/division because they think it will be an easy win rather then playing against the best in the area to prove their the best. Now this doesn't apply to everyone but for the majority of local players it does. I can't tell you how many times I've heard the excuse of a certain team playing, as the reason for them to avoid the PGPL. Their is an old saying, "The bigger the mountain the better the view", simply meaning the harder a task, the better you feel conquering or completing it. This is based on how I designed this league, these prizes and amenities will draw the best teams. Winning a PGPL Event will never be an easy task, and that should be a good thing, not a reason to play elsewhere.


The Good:
The APPA System in time will fix this problem.

It will take the rest of the season, but the teams/players that place highly in the d4 division will rank up. They will be forced to play at the higher level and the divisions will even out in attendance. For now lets just focus on keeping them running.

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Old 07-03-2014, 11:06 AM #8
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Plenty of great things to come ! Pgpl is a awesome series to get the best for you buck
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Old 07-03-2014, 11:10 AM #9
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Dont forget that some local teams compete in d4 psp r4 abd r2. If they play a d3 event then they could be bumped mid season thus losing a series title etc
How many teams does this category consist of ? Maybe 1-2 ? Common now
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Old 07-03-2014, 04:54 PM #10
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Well put Paul....
Me and my team couldn't play PGPL this year due to scheduling conflicts with work and family... But like I said we are looking to do the last event as our personal schedules will make this possible..

I do like what you (PGPL) are doing it looks to be a great series and I hope this race to 4 format will be around next year....
Are there any prizes for 2nd and 3rd place or is this winner takes all format??
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Old 07-03-2014, 06:35 PM #11
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Well put Paul.... Me and my team couldn't play PGPL this year due to scheduling conflicts with work and family... But like I said we are looking to do the last event as our personal schedules will make this possible.. I do like what you (PGPL) are doing it looks to be a great series and I hope this race to 4 format will be around next year.... Are there any prizes for 2nd and 3rd place or is this winner takes all format??
Second place is 25 cases of redemption I believe and 3rd place is half off entry for the next event.
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Old 07-03-2014, 06:53 PM #12
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Seeing the amount of choices in leagues this year is awesome. Where was this last year when I ranked up? Having to sit out an entire season really sucked. There are a lot of top tier D4 teams that can play D3 but playing a RT4 and RT2 event are completely different. Having a group of 5-6 guys playing a RT2 event is a lot easier manpower wise then to play a RT4 you would need at least 9 guys plus a pit crew consisting of 1 or 2 people and a couple sideline coaches coaches so that would be a minimum of 13 people to bring along to an event. I think there should be a D3 division next year that offers both RT2 and RT4.
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Old 07-03-2014, 07:42 PM #13
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Seeing the amount of choices in leagues this year is awesome. Where was this last year when I ranked up? Having to sit out an entire season really sucked. There are a lot of top tier D4 teams that can play D3 but playing a RT4 and RT2 event are completely different. Having a group of 5-6 guys playing a RT2 event is a lot easier manpower wise then to play a RT4 you would need at least 9 guys plus a pit crew consisting of 1 or 2 people and a couple sideline coaches coaches so that would be a minimum of 13 people to bring along to an event. I think there should be a D3 division next year that offers both RT2 and RT4.
Bring back the Sg's get Vinnie and boys together haha
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Old 07-03-2014, 08:43 PM #14
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The Good:
The APPA System in time will fix this problem.

It will take the rest of the season, but the teams/players that place highly in the d4 division will rank up. They will be forced to play at the higher level and the divisions will even out in attendance. For now lets just focus on keeping them running.

-Paul
The long term problem is the lack of push/opportunity for a higher division. APPA is an arbitrary set up and it will not fix the problem. This is a statistical reality. Where in the Mid Atlantic area (or New England, or anywhere else) can you really go play a true D2 or D1 event? How does someone assign any particular skill level to an individual who is participating on a team? That person is supposedly being rated on a mix of their individual ability and the ability of the team they play on. Of course, this includes a guesting situation, or a day when a team has a particularly good day, or a day when the team has a particularly bad one.

If you start with a fictitious 20 team in New Jersey and assume that they all keep the same roster (which never happens in the real world) and are trying to play the highest division possible (which never happens in the real world), only a percentage of these teams will be ranked D3. Subsequent to that, there is no option to move in rank except by getting like minded individuals together, investing thousands and thousands of dollars and going to play national D2 or D1 through PSP, since NPPL is dead.

Let's say one of these fictitious teams tries this and gets absolutely train wrecked every time. They don't have the ability to hang up there. Now you have a bunch of guys who are functionally D4 in terms of skill level, with D2 ranks. Frequently, they're not even able to play events because of their rank. It's like some weird opposite-to-common sense policy where people who theoretically spent the most time and money doing something are given less and less opportunity to compete. In the meantime, Johnny Localboy who has played D4 for the past 10 years and may very well be functionally a higher ranked player has way more chance to win prizes from events. What?

Conversely, field organizers always want to tailor their events to D4 or lower, primarily because it's something their referee staff can handle and it's most of the available player (consumer) pool. If I posted a thread about an event being remarkably hard and well attended by great, nationally ranked players, a lot of the local guys in any given area wouldn't bother to come. It wouldn't be financially prudent and the only benefit for them would be experience. Seeing as people are wimps these days and the competitive mindset is trashed, people would rather not do that.
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Old 07-03-2014, 09:56 PM #15
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Love the last paragraph,very true
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Old 07-03-2014, 10:59 PM #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Booyahkai View Post
Seeing the amount of choices in leagues this year is awesome. Where was this last year when I ranked up? Having to sit out an entire season really sucked. There are a lot of top tier D4 teams that can play D3 but playing a RT4 and RT2 event are completely different. Having a group of 5-6 guys playing a RT2 event is a lot easier manpower wise then to play a RT4 you would need at least 9 guys plus a pit crew consisting of 1 or 2 people and a couple sideline coaches coaches so that would be a minimum of 13 people to bring along to an event. I think there should be a D3 division next year that offers both RT2 and RT4.
Most of the reason is because of this. It's hard to find a core group of players constantly playing together. I know there are teams who likes to pick up randoms and have a throw together.. but that was a popular phase 2+ years ago, & most of those teams died out (for those who are doing this now).. those randoms may not stick very long. I was guilty for this too, because I've always wanted to field the best in regional tournaments & success did happen. But I'd rather build a family and be a force later on when everything gels real well. Than be good now, and break apart the next year.

NO LIMIT is there and EC Rampage have been successful because they've stuck together & those guys have been playing together forever. Not a lot of teams are like that because that whole throw together thing just made things complicated lol & if there's a good squad, they sometimes split up, because of egos.

Its hard to keep a family together in paintball.. but I'm hoping there will be teams who will stick together and win together.

We need more of that. idk just my two cents.
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Old 07-04-2014, 06:25 AM #17
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Most of the reason is because of this. It's hard to find a core group of players constantly playing together. I know there are teams who likes to pick up randoms and have a throw together.. but that was a popular phase 2+ years ago, & most of those teams died out (for those who are doing this now).. those randoms may not stick very long. I was guilty for this too, because I've always wanted to field the best in regional tournaments & success did happen. But I'd rather build a family and be a force later on when everything gels real well. Than be good now, and break apart the next year.

NO LIMIT is there and EC Rampage have been successful because they've stuck together & those guys have been playing together forever. Not a lot of teams are like that because that whole throw together thing just made things complicated lol & if there's a good squad, they sometimes split up, because of egos.

Its hard to keep a family together in paintball.. but I'm hoping there will be teams who will stick together and win together.

We need more of that. idk just my two cents.
You hit the nail on the head Fran. I can honestly say that playing with NO LIMIT has taken my game to another level. We are not just there to win. We are there to have fun and play the game that we all love. The team didn't do so well last season but everyone choose to stick together and no try to jump on a new team. We choose to stick together as a family. Everyone on my team knows when to admit that they made a mistake on the field and correct it. when they are confronted about it rather than blaming someone for the lost which is what I see a lot of teams do. That ultimately leads to teams breaking up. Being a player who has played in the past and the I see a lot of players who want to be superstars. I for one would like to be on a team with no wanna be superstars. Paintball is not a game you can win with a one man show.
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Old 07-04-2014, 07:43 PM #18
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D3 Players

The Problem Is Appa They Should Not Let You Drop Down To D3 From D4 Once You Are D3 You Should Stay At D3 But What People Will Do Is Not Play For A Year And Your Points Will Drop And It Goes For All The Div Play Once You Hit That D1 D2 D3 Stay There
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Old 07-04-2014, 08:39 PM #19
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The Problem Is Appa They Should Not Let You Drop Down To D3 From D4 Once You Are D3 You Should Stay At D3 But What People Will Do Is Not Play For A Year And Your Points Will Drop And It Goes For All The Div Play Once You Hit That D1 D2 D3 Stay There
So your saying if a guy gets bumped up to D3 and there are no regional D3 events available that he should either spend an excessive amount of money on national events? Being a good D4 player and a D3 player are not that much difference. If a guy has to sit out a year because he's can't play any regional events and then gets bumped down to D4 is not any fault of his own. I remember GPL/MAPL was offering a D3 division last year and no teams signed up.
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Old 07-04-2014, 08:52 PM #20
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Could be but the costs aren't much more expensive. We had a team in both division and both placed and played in the finals and our d3 team spent maybe $75 more per player but also left with double of what they spent with money left over.

If you think about it really d4 saves on entry but pays more for paint. They also have less bodies to split everything with so if you shot 20 cases and you have 6 guys you're talking $183 plus $40 or so for entry. It adds up to about the same as D3 split between 9-12 guys essentially.

It could be rosters though but there's enough good teams and players at the playground alone to find bodies. We have so many quality players we had no choice but to start a d4 team also.
The cost between a RT4 and RT2 are about the same. Its the reward that's different. Lets say a team plays RT4 $1000 + 30 cases at $45 a case is $1350. Total cost $2350 / 10 guys ( (2) 5 man lines. That's $235 a person. RT2 otherwise is $250 plus 15 cases at $55 = $825 making a total of $1075 which is $215 a person. RT4 essentially profits $265 a person while RT2 profits $785 a person if they can get $1000 for the luxe. Also RT4 practices are more costly then a RT2. I'm asian so math is my thing CJ
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Old 07-04-2014, 08:59 PM #21
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D3

No I Am Not Saying That You Have A Lot Of Players That Play All These Great Events That Are D4 That Should Be D3 If Appa Does Not Let You Drop Down From D3 To D4 Then We Would Be Able To Have D3 Events Because Player Who Love The Sport Will Have To Play D3 You Dont Have To Play Psp Because You Have Local Events That Are Trying To Help The D3 Players To Play But There Are More D4 Players Then D3 Right Now
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