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Old 12-20-2011, 04:20 PM #1
rudeawakening 7
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sprung bolt problem

i currently have the hustler shocker (my roomates gun) and it isn't cycling under 13.5ms dwell. it has a cp reg and i don't have a pressure tester that goes above 130, I use a droid. i haven't teched shockers for a while and am a little rusty. here are the things i have checked off:
moving orings
battery
lube

I currently have the reg 3 turns out and have the dwell 13.5 and it cycles, but guzzles gaz. when i turn the reg out further, the noid/manifold starts hissing. Is the hissing something that should or should not be happening? i.e. do i need to take the frame off and find where the leak is actually coming from? also I have never worked with a spring mod or a shego (both of which this gun is), if that speaks anything to my problem.

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Old 12-20-2011, 04:25 PM #2
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If you're upping the pressure then you are probably over-pressurizing the gun and causing the noid to vent.
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Old 12-20-2011, 04:26 PM #3
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First off, what is wrong with the dwell being at 13.5? That is not a high dwell by any means. What do you consider "guzzling gas"?

The leaking that you are hearing from the noid is because the reg pressure is too high and the solenoid is venting. I would zero your reg out (and rebuild it if you haven't already). Then turn the reg up to the 130 that your current gauge goes to. Remove your gauge. Then turn the reg up about a quarter to a half a turn and see how it shoots from there. Your gun should be in the 160-200 range at this point. Set your dwell at 12 and adjust it from there and see what you have.
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Old 12-20-2011, 04:29 PM #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rudeawakening 7 View Post
i currently have the hustler shocker (my roomates gun) and it isn't cycling under 13.5ms dwell. it has a cp reg and i don't have a pressure tester that goes above 130, I use a droid. i haven't teched shockers for a while and am a little rusty. here are the things i have checked off:
moving orings
battery
lube

I currently have the reg 3 turns out and have the dwell 13.5 and it cycles, but guzzles gaz. when i turn the reg out further, the noid/manifold starts hissing. Is the hissing something that should or should not be happening? i.e. do i need to take the frame off and find where the leak is actually coming from? also I have never worked with a spring mod or a shego (both of which this gun is), if that speaks anything to my problem.

HELLLp
What board are you using? I'm pretty sure my 08 board uses pwm,to conserve battery power, so my dwell is significantly higher than it would be with a stock board.
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Old 12-20-2011, 04:46 PM #5
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the board is the etek 2 star frame stock board. And okay. I'm going to bottom it out and raise back up to 130 and bring it up a bit more from there. I guess 13.5 just seems high from a sprung bolt, to me. I thought the point of the spring was to cut down on pressure and dwell so i just thought it would be running lower.

assuming that the psi is approx linear with respect to turns, the psi should now be ≈185. now i'm setting the dwell at 12ms.
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Last edited by Uziel Gal : 12-21-2011 at 02:25 AM. Reason: Double post.
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Old 12-20-2011, 04:52 PM #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rudeawakening 7 View Post
I thought the point of the spring was to cut down on pressure and dwell so i just thought it would be running lower.
Yes and no. It's more for eliminating first shot drop off and getting more consistent chrono readings. But generally you can drop the dwell some and save a little air.
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Old 12-20-2011, 05:13 PM #7
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okay well thanks for your insight! right now it's cycling well at what i'm assuming is 185 psi and 15ms dwell. sound decent?
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Old 12-20-2011, 05:16 PM #8
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dwell still seems a bit high for a sprung bolt at that pressure, but i wouldn't say it's bad.
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Old 12-20-2011, 05:38 PM #9
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okay i just went out and shot it with actual paint and actually needed to up the pressure another 10-20psi to get it to actually shoot around 300. given it is shooting well, i feel like something must be off. 200psi (i'm going to check this tomorrow to make sure it is actually at that pressure) with 15 ms dwell... just seem high. i'm pretty sure the bolt is polished too, if that means anything.
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Old 12-20-2011, 06:17 PM #10
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yeah, means you might have bolt stick problems. have you tried upping your ABS?
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Old 12-20-2011, 07:01 PM #11
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3 ms is the max :/

What about the type of lube? I used hater. Should i give sl33k a try?
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Last edited by Uziel Gal : 12-21-2011 at 02:26 AM. Reason: Double post.
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Old 12-20-2011, 07:10 PM #12
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you should be using oil on a polished bolt. if it's not polished sl33k (dow33) will be fine

your board only does 3ms of ABS?
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Old 12-21-2011, 02:29 AM #13
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Can't remember off the top of my head what the total range of adjustment on the Etek STAR frame board is (I could probably find out later), but it is possible that the range is limited, as a poppet marker shouldn't really need much in the way of ABS. After all, Planet didn't really make this board with the Shocker in mind.
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Old 12-21-2011, 03:03 AM #14
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Quote:
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you should be using oil on a polished bolt. if it's not polished sl33k (dow33) will be fine

your board only does 3ms of ABS?
i think we've found my problem. oil needed. i can get some at practice tomorrow. so tips on lubing it? i've actually always stayed clear of poppits lol
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Old 12-21-2011, 08:43 AM #15
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What board are you using? I'm pretty sure my 08 board uses pwm,to conserve battery power, so my dwell is significantly higher than it would be with a stock board.
Yep, I'm almost positive the star board has a pulsed signal for a direct acting noid like the mac 43 (in the ego 8) so when the board is used on an indirect solenoid(as found in the shocker) the dwell will need to be set longer. Mine runs a 13.5 ms because of this. 06 style ego boards are made to run indirect solenoids like shocker solenoids so it can run an equivalent or a lower dwell than shocker boards.

Edit* and yes the abs max value is 3ms since the board was designed for a popit
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Old 12-21-2011, 01:28 PM #16
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I'm pretty sure that all Planet's boards use some degree of Pulse Wave Modulation, the specific pattern of the modulation varying depending on the solenoid that the marker has been designed to work with - lots of board do employee PWM to help save power.
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Old 12-23-2011, 12:46 PM #17
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this actually didn't help. it did exactly the same thing this time. it shoots with fsdo for like an hour
then gets like every other shot drop off
then it loses velocity (it shoots between 50 and 75 fps)
then it continues to lose velocity until it doesn't shoot anymore

This was with 15.5ms dwell. So I feel like it shouldn't be starving for air but it's acting like it is running out of air... More help? it could be something stupid... lol
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Old 12-23-2011, 02:12 PM #18
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you should be using oil on a polished bolt. if it's not polished sl33k (dow33) will be fine
Sorry to thread lurk but I have a question-

I'm about to get a sprung and polished bolt. I'll be using a stock HE can, aluminum bolt sleeve/firing chamber(whatever you wanna call it..), and NDZ adjustable bolt guide.

Do I really need to use oil on the polished bolt or can I get away with Sl33k? I have a 10x oring rebuild kit from Oring Monkey and they are all black orings...making them Nitrile, right?

Using oil on a shocker blows my mind....
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Old 12-23-2011, 02:22 PM #19
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if you have the option DON'T buy it! find another bolt. I've said it once, and i'll say it again. polishing the entire bolt is not a good idea:

1) you can't use lube with it. bare aluminum is highly reactive and will cause sludging problems. you HAVE to use oil or it will cause problems.

2) polish bolts won't hold lube often leading to FSDO and general cycling issues.

3)it decreases the diameter of the bolt, meaning you NEED to spend time hand picking your orings. if you don't pick he right ones, it's going to leak and cause mayhem
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Old 12-23-2011, 02:40 PM #20
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I've been accustomed to "hand-picking" orings for best seal with S/P guns so this doesn't scare me. I've had to do that with every HE bolt I've had...

I do indeed appreciate the word of warning regarding the affects of polishing!

I have yet another spare HE bolt...would you care to take it for your polishing technique?

My bad, ccluff2 does the isolated polishing...you just do all the other crazy stuff!
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Old 12-23-2011, 02:45 PM #21
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i don't polish bolts
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