[Jinx18]

yea Ill add what was posted. thanks for the heads up

[Hebiki]

Originally Posted by Jinx18

yea Ill add what was posted. thanks for the heads up

sent you a pm. thanks in advance

[Jinx18]

pm returned!

added the info for the misc. GT orings

006 asa knob - 70 Durometer Buna - 9452K14
012 asa/frame - 70 Durometer Buna - 9452K21
2x1 solenoid - 70 Durometer Buna - 9262K101
4x1 solenoid - 70 Durometer Buna - 9262K102
4x1 subplate/frame - 70 Durometer Buna - 9262K102
2x1 subplate/body - 70 Durometer Buna - 9262K101
4x1 subplate/body - 70 Durometer Buna - 9262K102
17x1 subplate/body - 70 Durometer Buna - 9262K615
3x1 subplate-subplate - 70 Durometer Buna - 9262K441
4x1 front subplate - 70 Durometer Buna - 9262K102
8x1 front subplate - 70 Durometer Buna - 9262K442

[kylekeller24]

<3

[iNvaZN]

[rottensquad07]

Did a quick search of google and I did not see the sizes listed for the Sonic model Cyborg. There was another site but it was down and linked me back to Bresnan. Anyone have these sizes?

[Burning Ogre]

I think you can safely use the 04 list:

http://macdevmilitia.com/showthread.php?tid=14

[rottensquad07]

Thank you very much sir!

[JC001]

The valve O-rings on the v1 clone are all 1x17

[SHOOTNPOO]

Front 2 orings on valve are 1x17
The rear oring is a 1x15

[SHOOTNPOO]

[JC001]

Originally Posted by SHOOTNPOO

Front 2 orings on valve are 1x17
The rear oring is a 1x15

Do you work for macdev? Does the 1x17 oring fit so perfectly on the rear of the valve but it really should be a 1x15?

I dunno man, I think some people on here confused the VX keg with the V1 Keg.. either way you have me curious I am going to look into this next time I service my gun, I do believe that the O-ring monkey kit doesn't have 1x15 o-rings for the v1 clone.

I could be wrong, but I believe that the o-rings that have been edited into that diagram are wrong.

Edit, I was wrong, the rear o-ring is indeed a 1x15

[blueshifty]

I am interested in doing an oring failure analysis on MacDev spools in particular. The more I research the more I think that a great deal of improvement can be made to our guns by optimizing the oring profile/ material/ durometer.

The analysis will be done based on Appendix 10.1 in this book: (great read for nerds)
http://www.parker.com/literature/ORD...g_Handbook.pdf

Based on my early research I am thinking that the following materials/ durometer are ideal: (static orings don't make a ton of difference and due to it's low cost/ high availability buna will still be used)

Clone VX:
Bolt Keg Inner (017) - 75 Durometer Viton Xring - This is currently in test, but viton and buna have similar wear characteristics and since the higher durometer viton has a lower friction coefficient it is well suited. It seems urethane xrings ~80 durometer would be best, but I haven't even tried sourcing them yet.
Bolt Keg Outer (020) - Static
Bolt Tip (014) - 70 Durometer - Unknown - Early research suggests urethane is the best material since the probable failure mode is abrasion (breaking contact with the breach) , however, I doubt cost makes this worthwhile since it is not a high-failure item in my experience. MacDev could add a slight chamfer to the breach and make this a non-issue completely in the future.
Bolt Bumper (15x1) - Viton - Unknown durometer - Based on the probable failure mode (compression set) viton appears to be the most well suited. I will be looking into this further seeing as how this is a VERY important oring.
Bolt Switch (016) - Unknown - This is one oring that intimidates me a little. Abrasion is likely going to be the most common failure mode, but it will be imperative to retain an even seal at all times. Using an xring in this location is not ideal because it runs over the small holes in the bolt keg and a slightly rougher surface on the bolt keg inner. I am thinking that urethane, buna, or viton will be used, however, in the past HNBR has been used successfully in similar locations. Based on the material selection guide urethane looks ideal.
Spacer Inner (017) - 75 Durometer viton xring - In test - Again the slick surface of the gold bolt, constant sealing pressure, slightly harder durometer of the viton has been working well so far.
Spacer Outer (017) - Static
Valve Front (17x1) - I am using 75 durometer viton, however, these really need to be urethane. According to the material selection guide viton is still better than buna in dynamic applications, so this will work for now.
Valve Middle (17x1) - Same as above
Valve Rear (15x1) - I am currently running the stock 70 durometer buna orings and have never had an issue. Again, as you probably guessed, viton or urethane are most desirable considering it is a dynamic oring. Likely I will be using viton because the low failure/ higher cost of urethane won't be worth it.
Valve Keg Outer (020) - Static
Powertube Tip (011) - This is another oring that intimidates me... Much like the bolt switch a low friction coefficient is desirable and viton or urethane seem to be the best choices. I am likely going to use viton here as well because it is riding on the slick surface of the gold bolt making a higher durometer (lower friction coefficient) a solid choice.
Powertube Mid (10x1) - I have never had one of these fail. Viton/ urethane would be ideal, but for cost reasons I'll probably just keep it buna.
Powertube Cap Inside (020) - Static
Powertube Cap Outside (020) - Static

Also worth mentioning silicone seems to be ideal for static orings, but it's higher cost is not even worth exploring for me.

Also used for material selection: http://www.marcorubber.com/material_chart.htm

[Mark S.]

Awesome post blueshifty. I'm actually in the process of trying some similar things on my GT and VX. Gonna PM you

[frankie says chillax]

could i use a 011 quad on my borg ram?

[blueshifty]

Originally Posted by Mark S.

Awesome post blueshifty. I'm actually in the process of trying some similar things on my GT and VX. Gonna PM you

Originally Posted by frankie says chillax

could i use a 011 quad on my borg ram?

I wouldn't. I'd probably use viton or urethane. Technically the viton will have slightly less drag, but the urethane will have better abrasion resistance. I am not sure how those orings usually fail (shred, wear, spiral). So far, in calling oring manufacturers, urethane and viton are almost always recommended for the application. Xrings are kind of picky so I'd recommend using them sparingly. Xrings really shouldn't be used where any part of them break seal, such as over air holes etc.. Because of the holes you have a higher chance for abrasion, which is why I'd suspect it is the common failure mode meaning urethane is ideal.

[jonnyN]

Woow I learn a lot reading this thread.
.
Last Sunday I start noticing a weaseling sound on the back of my clone and the efficiency was not good, I was getting like 6 pods and a hopper for a 68/45, I was shooting between 285 - 300
After measurable the out put pressure on my reg I notice that was real high (220 psi) if I lower that down to a 100 psi marker shoot about 240 fps
Do you guys think that changing the oring like you recommended, specially the mid valve oring with a viton can solve my problem?

Stock Dwell
Militia lube was used

[Mark S.]

Jonny, yes that is the first o-ring I would check. I would go ahead and inspect all dynamic o-rings. I like to hand-fit and test the contact path of each part to make sure that the o-ring is making adequate contact.

Check the following o-rings
- valve
- powertube
- bolt switch
- bolt keg inner
- spacer inner

[jonnyN]

Originally Posted by Mark S.

Jonny, yes that is the first o-ring I would check. I would go ahead and inspect all dynamic o-rings. I like to hand-fit and test the contact path of each part to make sure that the o-ring is making adequate contact.

Check the following o-rings
- valve
- powertube
- bolt switch
- bolt keg inner
- spacer inner

Nice I will do that and report back, thank you so much!!

[Le Eliminateur]

Jinx,
there's some info missing and some errors for the '07 Borg and the corresponding gladiator, i'm going to post some schematics to have more detailed info with the sizes i know for sure written on them:

1. the "Bolt (x3) (013) - 70 Durometer Buna - 9452K57", the 07 bolt is oringless delrin bolt (edit: the early 07 had oringed bolt, the late editions had the new delrin one)
2. "Ram/Valve Body EXCEPT the front o-ring of Ram Body (x6) (015) - 70 Durometer Buna - 9452K59" the hammer housing(ram body) only has 3 orings, not 4 as in the schematic you posted, and they're all 015. There's no 013 oring in the hammer housing( "Front o-ring of Ram Body (013) - 70 Durometer Buna - 9452K57" )
   Also, that's not the valve body in your schematic, that's the hammer guide (the valve body is the red valve itself)
3. i guess the valve body is also 015(which leave x8 015 orings), as well as the LPR face oring.
   
   What i don't know about is the LPR Bore oring and the ASA oring sizes

About the 07 Gladiator, they have input on the bottom and different orings, again i've filled those i know and left those i don't know for you to fill:


the only one i don't know is the seat oring, i think it's that very slim 6x1 metric oring but i'll await your confirmation.

regards

[Burning Ogre]

Good post Eliminator, but the only thing wrong in Jinx's post is the title, it's the cyborg rx not the 07. Maybe this post can be integrated as a separate entry?