[firefoxx04]

the new preium bolt by bob long is also heavier in order to run low lpr .

at least thats what i heard

[YeloSno]

I think having a forward spring assisted ram with an "eigenring" style movement dampener on the front of the ram to slow it down a sec as it reaches the end of its cycle would help greatly in making it annihilate everything.

That, and an enclosed bolt like the RX. SOOOOOOOOO much nicer imho. Less **** to worry about all around.

[firefoxx04]

dont want to copy the rx to much but i too like the enclosed bolt idea. Also, the length of the RX is great

[Jack Rice]

OK - really - what is it about enclosed that some like?
Wipe your bolt off after a days play and you are good. What? Playing in the rain? You all do realize that every time the bolt cycles it pulls air in and out of that back cap. OK some filtering effect for dust - but damn - some complain about the Invasion being "not as good looking " - that is better? Enclosed back reminds me of the "dual solenoid adjustments" on EGO's, lotta hype - not much in performance, probably lower performance.
C'mon I'm open - a little - but that "ain't it" Not a good looking gun. Not feeling it - at all.

[firefoxx04]

i thpught it was neat

i posted the picture to show the reg distance from the trigger gaurd. dont be afraid to keep the indy with the gap that it has. stretched out guns are easier to gun fight with.

[MstrKey]

I'm not a fan of the enclosed bolt either.....it's just one more thing to mess with at the end of the day. I suppose most guns don't break a lot of paint anyway so the messing is minimal.

That system has caused problems for some RX owners in the past though. It requires more precision fitting and cost for no real gain. The sealed ram housing already prevents all the dirt from getting in there so the back cap isn't really needed.

How about a low rise bolt pin.....with a hinged flip top that sits recessed into the actual bolt. So you just flip up a tab and pull the pin? That way it's out of sight but still simple. That would be different.

[Desperado_Ghost]

Can I suggest some rubber grips?

[firefoxx04]

some people say they dont like the stock grips but everyone who has used my aliens has loved them.. i prefer the flat plastic like grips on all my guns. such a good change.

[Desperado_Ghost]

I liked the stock panels on my Indy, but have since come to love the rubber grips.

Honestly, I would be happy either way.

The bolt pin was the the issue I had with the gun. I loved the low feedneck, but the pin made contact with most hoppers.

[firefoxx04]

really? mine works fine with the spire and prophecy. havnt tried a rotor. i think the vmax and pinokio might have issues but not many people spending $100+ on a gun are running one of them

[Desperado_Ghost]

I ran a vmax due to a previous sponsorship, I had to get a rotor, which I was perfectly fine with.

My friends prophecy touched the bolt pin just enough to take the emblem off.

Other than that, I was perfectly happy with the gun.

[firefoxx04]

sorry for big pictures, i think the height is perfect.

[Desperado_Ghost]

You had more clearance than I did. Overall, not really a problem as it allowed me to stop using a vmax lol.

[l1ryan1l]

Jack; Some people who play snake in muddy fields like my local field may seek some benefit from having an enclosed bolt...

On some dives or while playing snake, my indy gets coated with mud.. takes a nice mud bath. and some much definitely gets in there. i can feel the grinding if i move the bolt back and forth myself. But like you said, it's just a quick wipedown of the bolt..... but then you end up like me, and get really nasty breach wear..... Now that doesnt bother me in the least, but i bet it grinds some peoples gears.

I myself have never really seen a big issue or really cared enough to complain or do anything about it, because i would just wipe the bolt down after the point and it would be good as new... i think it'd be a cool idea to do. Necessary? not by any means, but people may start calling you a copy cat.

[firefoxx04]

i do remember reading about problems with the enclosed bolt.. oring fitment being picky and like jack said, it has to have a vent to draw air in and out when the bolt moves

[MstrKey]

Squeegie on the top tube to wipe the bolt down every cycle?

[l1ryan1l]

Originally Posted by firefoxx04

i do remember reading about problems with the enclosed bolt.. oring fitment being picky and like jack said, it has to have a vent to draw air in and out when the bolt moves

could use that to his advantage.... allow air in so bolt can move forward, allow air out at a slower rate to make the return slower and softer, or make an air cushion instead of adding a spring.... boom

[Jack Rice]

Originally Posted by l1ryan1l

could use that to his advantage.... allow air in so bolt can move forward, allow air out at a slower rate to make the return slower and softer, or make an air cushion instead of adding a spring.... boom

True, but then not so much...
Or put a spring in the cap covering the bolt - lower air pressure needed to move forward - and there is already more energy than needed to move back.
BUT that doesn't mean it is worth it in the cost to make it or in the difficulty of maintaining it.
Poppets, done correctly, don't have enough kick to effect shooting, they work without problems for months and the O-Rings last for years.
Why screw that up? Answer, the same reason you put on "Dual Solenoid Valve Adjusters", because hype with promotion is better than performance.

[l1ryan1l]

Originally Posted by Jack Rice

True, but then not so much...
Or put a spring in the cap covering the bolt - lower air pressure needed to move forward - and there is already more energy than needed to move back.
BUT that doesn't mean it is worth it in the cost to make it or in the difficulty of maintaining it.
Poppets, done correctly, don't have enough kick to effect shooting, they work without problems for months and the O-Rings last for years.
Why screw that up? Answer, the same reason you put on "Dual Solenoid Valve Adjusters", because hype with promotion is better than performance.

Why add springs? springs are ugly.

and Haha, i think you're taking PE's ideas the wrong way. On Indy's and BL markers, the bolt speed is pretty much adjusted by adjusting the LPR... as you know, if you fiddle with that too much, or turn things a bit too low, you can cause leaks or the marker may not fire correctly......PE tends to think "95% idiot/bullet proof" (since nothing is every 100% idiot proof) with their markers. So instead of adjusting bolt speed by fiddling with the LPR (which many non-knowledgeable players fear doing), make something everyone feels comfortable with, that exhibits similar results...... whalah not to mention it makes the marker seem more advanced than others, which can be used as a marketing ploy.... guy's at PE are smart cookies . but one thin i just don't agree on is their "safety feature".

[Jack Rice]

Originally Posted by l1ryan1l

... i think you're taking PE's ideas the wrong way. On Indy's and BL markers, the bolt speed is pretty much adjusted by adjusting the LPR... instead of adjusting bolt speed by fiddling with the LPR (which many non-knowledgeable players fear doing), make something everyone feels comfortable with, that exhibits similar results...... whalah

Whalah what? Turn down the inlet and then you have to turn up the LPR. Inlet adjustment is Stupid! There is no reason to have an inlet adjustment.

Originally Posted by l1ryan1l

not to mention it makes the marker seem more advanced than others, which can be used as a marketing ploy.....

Which is why I said "hype with promotion is better than performance", so no, I don't think I'm taking it the wrong way, not really. Now it can be argued that the ploy works. That I'm arguing a naive "The way things ought to be vs how they actually are" and I would be better off just going along, but as the old joke goes, some people call a spade a spade and some just call it a .... shovel.

[l1ryan1l]

Originally Posted by Jack Rice

Whalah what? Turn down the inlet and then you have to turn up the LPR. Inlet adjustment is Stupid! There is no reason to have an inlet adjustment.

Which is why I said "hype with promotion is better than performance", so no, I don't think I'm taking it the wrong way, not really. Now it can be argued that the ploy works. That I'm arguing a naive "The way things ought to be vs how they actually are" and I would be better off just going along, but as the old joke goes, some people call a spade a spade and some just call it a .... shovel.

well PE pretty much said don't turn it down past the 7th notch...meaning they had to have taken people turning it that low into consideration..

i dont think you wouldnt have to really turn the lpr up, just the valve wouldnt open all the way. just like if the lpr was lower than ideal. you could turn your dwell up, but you sacrifice some efficiency that way for a softer shot... not necessarily smoother or less kick... but fair enough. I wouldnt say it's no preformance gain, brcause the ego11 is significantly less slammer and smoother than the older ones, but still not as smooth as the older indy (or as efficient)...

anywho, i'm really excited for the new indy, i was saving for a geo3, simply because the ergonomics on it are amazing, and the shot is smooth enough. not luxe smooth, but smooth enough that i like it. But now i'll probably end up with a new indy instead once released.... any ETA by the way?