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Old 04-02-2012, 06:17 PM #631
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I thought the blue thing in the back was a spring, even if it isnt it doesn't have a ton more orings than most high end spoolies. What it comes down to are how many of the orings are dynamic seals, those are the only ones you have to worry about.

I never really had an issue with markers with lots of orings, long as not too many were dynamic and were easy to access/maintain its no big deal.
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Old 04-02-2012, 06:23 PM #632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwik View Post
I thought the blue thing in the back was a spring, even if it isnt it doesn't have a ton more orings than most high end spoolies. What it comes down to are how many of the orings are dynamic seals, those are the only ones you have to worry about.

I never really had an issue with markers with lots of orings, long as not too many were dynamic and were easy to access/maintain its no big deal.
Exactly there are only 4 dynamic o-rings.
One in the can, one on the bolt, and 2 on the bolt guide. They all are super easy to get to. Overall it looks like a good marker but the only question I still have is how does it shoot.
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Old 04-02-2012, 06:38 PM #633
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What some of you all won't remember because you haven't been around paintball that long but all spool valves stole their designs from the Automag. The automag was the original spool valve creator although back then they blieved is someone could improve upon their design and make a better gun then they should be allowed. While i agree that theory, i do understand why companies patent their designs so someone can not build something identicle and claim it as their own and pocket all the profits. although this can hurt the sport sooner or later there will be no way any company can improve on their gun without infringing on someones patents i really believe this is why dye and eclipse have refrained from trying to create a gun that has the gas through the frame like so many others have already done.

With all that being said i wouldn't be surprised if DLX comes out and sues the makers of this gun. What you don't realize is this guns detents and latch are a complete rip off of DLX detents and latch system. the bolt guide bolt and can are as well. the trigger frame clearly. The front reg is stolen from the Zodiac ZR1. the only difference is the zr1 has a rubber grip on it.

And you can argue oh well they are smaller the latches have a magnet on them, etc...
It doesn't matter if its not exactly like DLX is still infringes. the latchs and detents are designed to be exactly like the luxe as well as bolt and the guide.

If i build a cell phone and i design it just like the Iphone with a home button, but the volume buttons are a little different and the home button is a little bigger. i am still infringing on their design. as long as it looks and operates just like the original its patent infringing.

i wouldn't mind seeing this gun in action but i would personally never pay the retail for it. I have owned the pulse and the torque and i bought the torque a month before the company flopped. so i will refrain from buying this gun.
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Old 04-02-2012, 06:39 PM #634
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Exactly there are only 4 dynamic o-rings.
One in the can, one on the bolt, and 2 on the bolt guide. They all are super easy to get to. Overall it looks like a good marker but the only question I still have is how does it shoot.
You must be forgetting one at the back of the breech on the inside of the gun, otherwise nothing is keeping the air from flowing from the can straight into the breech.

Which makes it 5 dynamic rings, one less than a SFT shocker. I'm flabbergasted
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Last edited by Umami : 04-02-2012 at 06:42 PM.
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Old 04-02-2012, 06:52 PM #635
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Quote:
With all that being said i wouldn't be surprised if DLX comes out and sues the makers of this gun. What you don't realize is this guns detents and latch are a complete rip off of DLX detents and latch system. the bolt guide bolt and can are as well. the trigger frame clearly. The front reg is stolen from the Zodiac ZR1. the only difference is the zr1 has a rubber grip on it.


This being a very very big accusation without proof of having any information to back up patents, infringement or design copy's. If saying it looks as another is just dumb and ignorant and miss leading to others without knowing how things wrork. Things can look the same but work in different ways to have its own design.

You are correct on most markers now from 2007+ look the same or have aspects that may be similar but in reality and function work completely different as in flow, dump, chamber body ect! If you wait to judge this you will be surprise I'm sure.

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Old 04-02-2012, 07:07 PM #636
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umami View Post
You must be forgetting one at the back of the breech on the inside of the gun, otherwise nothing is keeping the air from flowing from the can straight into the breech.

Which makes it 5 dynamic rings, one less than a SFT shocker. I'm flabbergasted

True forgot about that one.
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Old 04-02-2012, 07:21 PM #637
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This being a very very big accusation without proof of having any information to back up patents, infringement or design copy's. If saying it looks as another is just dumb and ignorant and miss leading to others without knowing how things wrork. Things can look the same but work in different ways to have its own design.
I'm not here to make judgements about patents etc, but with closer pictures of the bolt kit the only thing that makes this marker differ in operation from a Shocker SFT is that the part of the bolt behind the sail ring has been chopped off, so the forward force on the bolt is greater than the return force. It also looks like the air is fed through the bolt guide, I can't tell for sure if there is a gas shutoff, but with the information that there are only 5 dynamic o-rings I can only guess there isn't one (as in an SFT). Unless of course they fed through the bolt guide and used the bolt guide rings as a shutoff, but judging by the length of the ports on the bolt that doesn't seem likely.

So beyond that single dimension change, accompanying o-ring conversion from dynamic to static, and a different location for the gas feed, this is nearly identical in configuration and function to an SFT. I'd be stunned if it shot any different than a Luxe.
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Old 04-02-2012, 07:43 PM #638
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Originally Posted by KidInfamous View Post
What some of you all won't remember because you haven't been around paintball that long but all spool valves stole their designs from the Automag. The automag was the original spool valve creator although back then they blieved is someone could improve upon their design and make a better gun then they should be allowed. While i agree that theory, i do understand why companies patent their designs so someone can not build something identicle and claim it as their own and pocket all the profits. although this can hurt the sport sooner or later there will be no way any company can improve on their gun without infringing on someones patents i really believe this is why dye and eclipse have refrained from trying to create a gun that has the gas through the frame like so many others have already done.

With all that being said i wouldn't be surprised if DLX comes out and sues the makers of this gun. What you don't realize is this guns detents and latch are a complete rip off of DLX detents and latch system. the bolt guide bolt and can are as well. the trigger frame clearly. The front reg is stolen from the Zodiac ZR1. the only difference is the zr1 has a rubber grip on it.

And you can argue oh well they are smaller the latches have a magnet on them, etc...
It doesn't matter if its not exactly like DLX is still infringes. the latchs and detents are designed to be exactly like the luxe as well as bolt and the guide.

If i build a cell phone and i design it just like the Iphone with a home button, but the volume buttons are a little different and the home button is a little bigger. i am still infringing on their design. as long as it looks and operates just like the original its patent infringing.

i wouldn't mind seeing this gun in action but i would personally never pay the retail for it. I have owned the pulse and the torque and i bought the torque a month before the company flopped. so i will refrain from buying this gun.
The Zr-1 "reg" isn't really a reg, its an expansion chamber, the reg is in the asa. And by the looks of earlier pics, the vapor's reg is in the for grip. So, Not really stolen.
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Old 04-02-2012, 08:46 PM #639
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Can't wait to see the vids.

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Old 04-02-2012, 09:05 PM #640
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I'm curious now to see a vid.

Those look like some big bores, what did they decide on?
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Old 04-03-2012, 01:55 AM #641
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thats one boo boo *** trigger.
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Old 04-03-2012, 02:19 AM #642
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i took those pictures disturbed put up.

the eye covers are extremely similar to the luxes, including the latch system, detents, and magnets in it. the detents for sure were luxe detents. they may be held in differently, but i could have taken them for spares to use in my luxe
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Old 04-03-2012, 07:56 AM #643
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Old 04-03-2012, 09:37 AM #644
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Quote:
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i took those pictures disturbed put up.

the eye covers are extremely similar to the luxes, including the latch system, detents, and magnets in it. the detents for sure were luxe detents. they may be held in differently, but i could have taken them for spares to use in my luxe
Actualy they are larger diameter than the luxe so the luxe ones will not fit nor will the spring.
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Old 04-03-2012, 10:02 AM #645
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honestly how few dynamic rings do you want in a spoolie?

The markers with the lowest I believe are the geo or drone dx style ones with 3, and having so few dynamic seals hasnt made those markers any better than their competitiors. As long as the design works and doesn't cause extra issues or maintenance time then I'm fine with it.
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Old 04-03-2012, 10:28 AM #646
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IMO the ones that suck are the static rings that slowly fail in a way that leaves you sitting on the bench thinking "well what the ****".

When a dynamic ring blows it's easy to identify and fix.
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Old 04-03-2012, 11:46 AM #647
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Umami you are correct again!! I had a chance to inspect the marker fairly well at HB. There is a o-ring in the breach, just like the shocker/luxe platform. The gun uses a SMC noid. The bolt is just as you observed, with the tail section removed. The air holes in the bolt are very similar to a luxe. Similar bolt guide as well. The gun is extremely light. The mill work is extensive. The feedneck is very impressive in form and function. I'd also assume the market shot like a luxe/shocker.

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Old 04-03-2012, 11:48 AM #648
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Also, to be fair, the Demon from Vanguard uses a very similar spool valve as well...... I had a chance to check the bolt assembly from one of the display markers that Vanguard had available.
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Old 04-03-2012, 12:16 PM #649
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I look forward to getting ShootNPoo's opinion on this and shooting vid
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Old 04-03-2012, 12:43 PM #650
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Yeay another shocker.
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