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Old 02-21-2012, 12:43 PM #379
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlmiller View Post
He's also responsible for the sub $300 electropneumatic segment via the T1 and it's various offspring through other companies.
Including the last guns made by Smart Parts and all of the GI Mil Sim 50 cal.
That is where the real problems started. He setup to do Smart Parts and then they're gone. Then setup up to do 50 cal and it doesn't sell. Maybe some of the rest of you remember him being in Richmond's tent with Chris Lasoya when 50 cal was being first shown at World Cup
That's two huge releases that didn't sell through no fault of his. No one said those guns weren't made right. That will take a toll on anybody.
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Old 02-21-2012, 12:50 PM #380
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Rice View Post
Including the last guns made by Smart Parts and all of the GI Mil Sim 50 cal.
That is where the real problems started. He setup to do Smart Parts and then they're gone. Then setup up to do 50 cal and it doesn't sell. Maybe some of the rest of you remember him being in Richmond's tent with Chris Lasoya when 50 cal was being first shown at World Cup
That's two huge releases that didn't sell through no fault of his. No one said those guns weren't made right. That will take a toll on anybody.
Jack, I would be very careful of placing your integrity and the future of your company in the hands of someone with such a sordid past.

I wish all parties the best of luck.
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Old 02-21-2012, 12:54 PM #381
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Old 02-21-2012, 01:37 PM #382
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Rice View Post
No one said those guns weren't made right.
Oh, I've heard to the contrary on that one Jack.
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Old 02-21-2012, 01:39 PM #383
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Old 02-21-2012, 01:56 PM #384
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcbiii View Post
Jack, I would be very careful of placing your integrity and the future of your company in the hands of someone with such a sordid past.

I wish all parties the best of luck.
I hear you.
About the sordid past.
Smart Parts - the guns (most notably the new Impulse) were excellent quality. I believe they would do business with him again.
GI Mil Sim - again guns were good quality. They would do business again.
Valken - would do business with Spurlock.
All the Dragon Guns - good reputation - most liked the guns.
Loader problems - nobody knows the answer there - but it was the big boy against the little guy. I liken this to all the electronic patent stuff and the demise of AKA and Bushmasters - nobody blames AKA.

Quest ZR1 - that is where most of this "sordid" talk started.
I have tried to keep a low profile here, but I just today read the post in the news section about counterfeit guns being sold and the "thief" of parts. I thought the post very slanderous and misleading. So I will say what I know of the situation.
Before I was working with Spurlock I was working with Jim Eaton and the same type of fight was going on with Eaton and Chris Cole then as is now happening with Spurlock. Jim was very verbal about finding out who was doing business with Quest and telling them not to do so, saying that Eaton was owed money because Eaton had made the prints and was never been paid for them. He was one pissed off guy!

I was also in Taiwan when the first Zodiac guns were being shipped and was there again a month later. I spent my first week there trying to solve the bore bottoms scratching on the ZR'1's. This because Mike was so concerned that he couldn't move on to my gun, so out of self preservation I was helping Chris Cole. The bolt/spindle wasn't supported at the end of the stroke. Once an additional O-Ring was added the scratching stopped.
The week I went back I heard Mike tell Chris that, even though Mike was not the cause of the problem, he was going to replace all the bolt assemblies at no cost. Mike wanted to keep the goodwill between them.
I also heard many other things that were going on between them that month and from my vantage point I believe that Mike has done everything reasonable - and more - to keep up his end of the bargain.

I'm understand the "where there is smoke there is fire". Still as I see it Mike has been reluctant to say things, and with the hopper, he signed a nondisclosure settlement.
While many/most are hammering Mike, the fact is that most people believe the first thing they hear. The first thing said was usually not Mike saying it.

I too wish all parties the best of luck - this helps no one.
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Old 02-21-2012, 02:00 PM #385
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Oh, I've heard to the contrary on that one Jack.
OK - email me I would like to know.
You were there when Eaton was upset. Eaton was doing lots of work for Bob then. Or didn't you talk with Eaton?
Or not, - this doesn't help anyone...
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Old 02-21-2012, 02:10 PM #386
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Please Jack I can go to another level if you wish,you need to worry about you and your stuff....Leave me out of your remarks......
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Old 02-21-2012, 02:34 PM #387
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Old 02-21-2012, 02:43 PM #388
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Old 02-21-2012, 03:39 PM #389
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Old 02-21-2012, 03:54 PM #390
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Thread now offered in 3D? NOICE!!!
My monitor doesn't support 3D. Tell me how it is.

Seems like there's been an astounding amount of drama in the industry the past week or so. Didn't realize middle schoolers controlled so much of paintball these days...
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Old 02-21-2012, 04:11 PM #391
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Old 02-21-2012, 04:12 PM #392
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Let me tell you something about the Dragun TES I bought as my first gun. I knew NOTHING about guns at the time and believe I paid ~300$ for it. What an absolute piece of crap, I spent more time sending it to get fixed then actually playing with it (It was never fixed). Even me with minimal knowledge knew that gun was total poop. Hence why when someone posts up a vid on here of one shooting everyone else replies "Omg how did you get it to work!"
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Old 02-21-2012, 04:18 PM #393
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cole69 View Post
Please Jack I can go to another level if you wish,you need to worry about you and your stuff....Leave me out of your remarks......
My view is that none of this has any place here.
If anything I have said is untrue I will apologize.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cole69 View Post
Jack I can go to another level
That seems to be a threat.
What I say is please, stop posting and let all this stop. Mike is a decent guy trying to make a living in a tough economic time.
I'm sorry that you two have some serious issues. I do hope that you can work them out and/or get past them.
When Mike has mentioned you and this situation I have urge him to calm down and see if something can't be worked out.
I have nothing against you. Only that I don't think it's right for me to sit silently by and let Mike get trashed when I have known him for 10 years and however imperfect he, or any of us are, what is being said is very one sided and not fair or reflective of what "I saw" that happened. Granted I did not see everything or even most everything, but the timing was that I was in Taiwan for almost 2 months out of 4 months when most of this transpired.
You are right in that what I need to do is take care of me and "my stuff". Still, I think setting the record straight is the right thing to do.
Again, I ask you to please stop this. Remember the saying that when you wrestle with a pig you both get dirty and only the pig enjoys it. Everyone is getting dirty here.
If there is anything I could do mediate an agreement I would be happy to do it. I truly did my best to help solve the problem of the bores scrapping and it was solved. You know I don't benefit either way.
Let's stop damaging the other and see if this can't heal.
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Old 02-21-2012, 04:22 PM #394
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Looks good, would like to see a shooting video though...
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Old 02-21-2012, 04:26 PM #395
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Old 02-21-2012, 04:32 PM #396
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Rice View Post
My view is that none of this has any place here.
If anything I have said is untrue I will apologize.

That seems to be a threat.
What I say is please, stop posting and let all this stop. Mike is a decent guy trying to make a living in a tough economic time.
I'm sorry that you two have some serious issues. I do hope that you can work them out and/or get past them.
When Mike has mentioned you and this situation I have urge him to calm down and see if something can't be worked out.
I have nothing against you. Only that I don't think it's right for me to sit silently by and let Mike get trashed when I have known him for 10 years and however imperfect he, or any of us are, what is being said is very one sided and not fair or reflective of what "I saw" that happened. Granted I did not see everything or even most everything, but the timing was that I was in Taiwan for almost 2 months out of 4 months when most of this transpired.
You are right in that what I need to do is take care of me and "my stuff". Still, I think setting the record straight is the right thing to do.
Again, I ask you to please stop this. Remember the saying that when you wrestle with a pig you both get dirty and only the pig enjoys it. Everyone is getting dirty here.
If there is anything I could do mediate an agreement I would be happy to do it. I truly did my best to help solve the problem of the bores scrapping and it was solved. You know I don't benefit either way.
Let's stop damaging the other and see if this can't heal.
I know a lot of people are excited to watch the drama unfold... but I personally think you'd all do yourselves a huge favor by either dropping the conversation, as Jack is suggesting, or at least take it out of a public forum.

The only way this could possibly work out in anyone's favor would be if you all came back as one united supergroup that produced a marker that competed directly against some of the current industry heavyweights... THAT would be interesting... but as it stands, I think people are just losing faith in all of you every time you post something more to the conversation, and you all aren't coming to any agreements.
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Old 02-21-2012, 05:38 PM #397
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wastedslayer View Post
Let me tell you something about the Dragun TES I bought as my first gun. I knew NOTHING about guns at the time and believe I paid ~300$ for it. What an absolute piece of crap, I spent more time sending it to get fixed then actually playing with it (It was never fixed). Even me with minimal knowledge knew that gun was total poop. Hence why when someone posts up a vid on here of one shooting everyone else replies "Omg how did you get it to work!"
My cousin still has his after he bought it new. Still shoots decent.
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Old 02-21-2012, 05:40 PM #398
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Old 02-21-2012, 06:04 PM #399
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Quote:
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Please Jack I can go to another level if you wish,you need to worry about you and your stuff....Leave me out of your remarks......
The immaturity level that you are portraying isn't the best. Please just do yourself and your company a favor and stop posting. Your original thread should of never been posted in the manner that you have done so. Jack wasn't really taking sides with mike, he was simply stating a side of the story that hasn't really been heard. I was really intrigued by the ZR1, but i probably wont end up purchasing one now. If you could do it all over again would you post the thread in the first place? where is this so called evidence that you have been meaning to provide? You posted it in a public forum and you should of known better. I honestly think that the quality of your parts were probably off, but im sure you and mike could of worked things out. If not then you should of just cut your loses and kept it in private and handled matters in court.

Publicly attacking a company or person with out any hard evidence (pictures, videos, documentation) isn't a good idea because in the end you just make yourself look like a fool. I personally think that your company may not last much longer because of this, not because of the ZR1 but because of your in ability to handle the matter at hand. Public opinion can make or break a company. You told your customers in the post that you were going to confiscate the gun if it was a counterfeit, which is understandable to a degree but your throwing customers away. Im happy that you have now changed that and instead you will just charge them full cost for the updates which is pretty reasonable, but it just may be a bit too late for that.

I will say it again, cole i honestly think your in the right but you need to prove it to everyone and you need to act your age and handle the situation at hand.

Thats all i have to say



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