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Old 10-28-2011, 01:26 PM #43
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Now now, we are all friends here. The great unwashed and their ignorance (which should baffle you all the time, not just some of the time) are held at bay (over 2,500 user names have been blocked from coming into this forum).

What is ignorance two doors down is just a disagreement here. Play nice...
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Old 10-28-2011, 01:35 PM #44
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Sorry, it's just that there are 100 of these threads all over Nation and it seems that the same responses keep appearing over and over. I have a hard time dealing with some people and their lack of understanding.

I didn't intend my response to sound so brutal.. I'll refrain from using such harsh language next time.
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Old 10-28-2011, 01:42 PM #45
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ever hear the saying, "if you had 1,000,000,000 monkeys playing with 1,000,000,000 typewriters for 1,000,000,000 years, eventually, one of them would happen to type out the works of shakespeare?"

this of it sort of like that. it's a process. i can't speak to the other threads. I don't go too far from our forum. But I can say that Raehl reads this one (and maybe others). So does Painter. Sometimes Lane and Paul R. And JJ. And active players in D1 and Pro. So hopefully we have a better chance of ideating towards something that makes sense (not that it matters, because none of us has a voting seat at the table).

But before we get "there" we have to start at the same place and work through the ... less developed ... ideas.
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Old 10-28-2011, 03:49 PM #46
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Old 10-28-2011, 06:12 PM #47
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Thank you Chris I did not know what it's function was...
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Old 10-29-2011, 02:30 AM #48
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@ ROF discussion - there isn't a proper, cost effective method for policing "true semi-auto." Requiring the referee's to judge one more thing while they're already out there making split second decisions just adds another unnecessary variable of human error into the equation. /End ROF discussion


Moving on - what's your guys thoughts on how to make feeder leagues mean more and benefit both the national and regional leagues, any ideas? I think if would behoove the merged league to look into it more to see if there's some way to allow the lower divisional teams to compete regionally and then nationally without having to play every national event but still have the regional league count towards their overall national ranking.

My idea was something like D4 teams can play one national event, and all of their regional series and their scores can account for 70% of a national score for each event missed. D3 two national events + all regional series, D2 three plus all regional series.

Although it would be better to make a more informed suggestion/opinion if we knew the stats how how many national events the average D4-D2 teams plays. Any chance you could provide us with that Raehl?
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Old 10-29-2011, 02:02 PM #49
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Old 10-29-2011, 02:41 PM #50
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I agree with the 6 man format, it allows teams to put a new dynamic to the game with 2 on each side and 2 up the middle or however the team decides to distribute players. I also believe it's a good compromise between the 2 leagues . People were mentioning it being easier to transition 3 man teams to a 5 man team but if it's a 6 man team two 3 man teams can combine to create a team.

I personally would like to see no race-to and just a time limit but don't think that will happen due to the economics of a team and not wanting to pay that much for paint. I guess my ideal plan B would be to have the race-to format but I would like to see it similar across all divisions, maybe all divisions play race-to 5 and then the pros play race-to 7 so it makes the transition throughout the divisions easier.

Number of events wise I think that 5 events at quality venues would be good but only taking the top 4 scores for the series title would be effective. This allows teams that are on each coast to save their money traveling across the country without worrying about it breaking the wallet and allowing them to stay in the race for the title. Spread the events around the country, one in cali, one in the northeast, one in the midwest, one in the south and the final being world cup seeing that it's the biggest event and venue. I don't believe in the regional event system, I think it would be cool but it doesn't really test each team on the level it should. There are only so many quality teams in each division from the same area of the country making it easy for the higher quality teams in the area to easily make it through the regional series. If there is one national event that the teams compete in it doesn't show how consistent the team is which is one of the true characteristics of how good the team is. One team could have a lucky tournament and everything could go right. The true test of a quality team is consistency which will only show by playing the top quality teams 4 or 5 events a year.

It makes no sense to try and monitor the ROF because there are always going to be people looking for a step ahead and with technology the way it is today there are easy ways around it. It makes it less stressful for the refs to monitor the boards and chips and what not. Keeping everyone on the same platform allows the refs to focus on what they are there for, to ref the players and watch the players instead of listening to when it starts to ramp.

Chris, i'm sorry but you don't really add to the conversation I think that you just like to tell people why they are wrong and that they don't know anything. Can we get some of your opinions on what you think should happen in the merger, i'd like to hear from someone who runs their own series and sees what works and what doesn't.
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Old 10-29-2011, 06:33 PM #51
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Can we get some of your opinions on what you think should happen in the merger, i'd like to hear from someone who runs their own series and sees what works and what doesn't.
I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.

I've actually talked to some of the principles on both sides of the merger and it thus wouldn't be appropriate for me to comment on possible post-merger scenarios. Whatever happens will get announced when it's ready to be announced. I can say that lots of ideas have been discussed, and, as Lane has said a few times already, that nothing has been decided.

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Old 10-29-2011, 10:58 PM #52
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Chris, what I'm saying is I would prefer a league that shot semi automatic. If that meant some people cheated and bounced there way up to 15 and you can't catch them.....****ing fine. Most people don't activity try to setup their gun to bounce as much as possible. How do I know this? Well because 80% of people in the league I play in don't know which grip to take off to change the battery....never mind lower the debounce.

I would much prefer playing in a league with a handful of people bouncing there way up to 15 to everybody shooting 12.5. I was simply pointing out that having league approved settings would grab the vast majority of players considering most of them just put it on "PSP Mode" and go play.

Your gonna give yourself a brain aneurysm one of these days...relax guy.
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Old 10-29-2011, 11:06 PM #53
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You can prefer it, but you're not going to get it. Nobody has to try to set up their gun to ramp, many of them do so out-of-the-box, even in "semi-auto" mode. If a gun doesn't give the player a little "help", the player thinks it "shoots slow" and buys a different one.

My point is, whatever you set the ROF cap at, virtually all players will end up with guns set up to ramp up to that ROF cap. If ramping is legal, it'll be something like PSP's 3 shots per pull deal. And if it isn't, it'll be like NPPL semi-auto, where the gun just adds the necessary shots to get you from 8 bps to 12 or 15.

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Old 10-30-2011, 02:44 AM #54
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Tournament paintball still needs to grow and become more creative in order to see continuous growth in popularity - even with a possible merger. I'm suggesting people throw out some original ideas for a change, instead of arguing and discussing the pros/cons about details to a possible merged 5/7man/race/ramp/semi league.

I assume everyone understands paintball needs to be more spectator friendly in order to grow- any activity does. However, that doesnt mean it needs to be cool to watch on TV. Paintball needs to have more ways for fans to follow and be involved in the sport. Ever try explaining how much fun tournament paintball can be? We all know its frustrating because you can tell people 1000's of reasons - but they just dont understand. Its because fans dont have anything to follow. I'm not saying change the game and add center of attention either like a ball, (dont wanna turn this into a moneyball subtopic) but little things could be changed so its easier to understand.

After playing 5man/7man/xball, etc, I do have my preferences on how I've competed over the past ~6 years. Regardless of the style of play its always been exciting. I share my opinion with the sane people who prefer the format that allows the better team to win most of the time. In addition, people want that format to still be exciting as possible. Im trying to avoid how to make paintball look exciting on TV, because paintball will figure out those things when it gets there.

Enough rambling for the night, here are a few suggestions to possibly help tournament paintball grow with or without a major; ways to help people follow and understand the game, while still allowing the best team to win. They may sound absurd to people, but realize im only offering them out of my best intentions to help the sport grow.

-Is there way the race2 can change? Perhaps the scoring doesnt always have to be a 1point swing. Hockey is similar to this, but most other sports have some sort of risk-reward to favor different styles of play, instead of a full out agression style currently.

-does the format always have to be 5v5 or 7v7? Is there a way to allow teams to like "pull the goalie", where you get an extra body on the field while adding a risk to doing so? Maybe allow a coach on the 50 yard line for a point, but your 5th player starts 5seconds late or something?

-Can we modify players apparel so hits can be more obvious? Can we modify the way reffs make signals so the live players know a penalty was assessed/fans?

- Can we have a statkeeper? Guns could track #shots fired/player/team and be sent to a computer.. Number of times team broke the snake/50? Show teams common bunkers they took off the break on average- Like a heat signature showing patterns for everyone to look at.
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Old 10-30-2011, 09:40 PM #55
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Has the idea of using both formats been discussed? 2 race to events and 2 7-man events.
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Old 10-30-2011, 09:46 PM #56
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Not to attempt to derail the conversation here but, are any of you eluding to the old "ramping takes the skill out of paintball" argument? I am interested in how this rears its head during merger talks. Most of the people I have spoken to are for ramping, then again most of those people are pros; it seems that most of the lower divisional players buy into this particular argument. What are your thoughts? Jeff? Dave? JJ? I ask you as you are the "resident 'professional' opinions" within the group. I invite everyone else to chime in as well.

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Old 10-30-2011, 10:22 PM #57
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- Can we have a statkeeper? Guns could track #shots fired/player/team and be sent to a computer.. Number of times team broke the snake/50? Show teams common bunkers they took off the break on average- Like a heat signature showing patterns for everyone to look at.
Some real stats would be interesting. Paints a better picture than a final score, and give the players something to compare to each other. Win% for each line or group of players that comes onto the field has been my dream stat.
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Old 10-30-2011, 10:55 PM #58
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It baffles me how people really think the ability to walk the trigger is a skill..it has little to do with playing the game if you think about it logically. W/e they decide to do with the leagues..formats..etc. will be fine with me as long as theres a league to play in because bottom line...i love playing paintball. Thats my 2 cents and thanks.
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Old 10-30-2011, 11:20 PM #59
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6 man format
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Old 10-31-2011, 11:01 AM #60
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So to sum up Raehl, Race to some number, ramping at a rate TBD and the number of players a team can field is still undecided.

So if there is a merge, 7man brings the number of players (maybe) and NPPL staff/expertise??

If i'm missing something let me know
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Old 10-31-2011, 11:44 AM #61
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Not to attempt to derail the conversation here but, are any of you eluding to the old "ramping takes the skill out of paintball" argument? I am interested in how this rears its head during merger talks. Most of the people I have spoken to are for ramping, then again most of those people are pros; it seems that most of the lower divisional players buy into this particular argument. What are your thoughts? Jeff? Dave? JJ? I ask you as you are the "resident 'professional' opinions" within the group. I invite everyone else to chime in as well.

Christ
I donít think that it really takes the skill out of it. However paintball plays differently in ramp than it does in semi.....I prefer semi.

People with weak off hands or lack the ability to shoot while reloading is very apparent in semi where itís not as significant in ramp. Itís likely more significant in regional play because players at higher levels donít have a problem shooting offhanded or thru a reload. Which is why regional players probably buy into the "ramping takes the skill out of paintball" more than higher level players do.

Like I said before I donít think it takes skill to walk but they game certainly plays different.
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Old 10-31-2011, 12:14 PM #62
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Quote:
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Has the idea of using both formats been discussed? 2 race to events and 2 7-man events.
Quote:
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So to sum up Raehl, Race to some number, ramping at a rate TBD and the number of players a team can field is still undecided.

So if there is a merge, 7man brings the number of players (maybe) and NPPL staff/expertise??

If i'm missing something let me know
I think you're missing the "nothing has been decided" part, and even that's just something I'm repeating:

Quote:
ProPB: If a merger were to happen, what type of format would we be competing in? Race-To? 7-man? Or, something else entirely?

Lane @ PSP: No one. ABSOLUTELY NO ONE knows what a format would be if the the merger happens.
From http://www.propaintball.com/2011/10/...lane-wright/3/


I'll take one more shot at this:

I have no idea, at all, what format a merged league might use.


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Last edited by raehl : 10-31-2011 at 12:18 PM.
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Old 10-31-2011, 12:34 PM #63
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I think that they should just leave things as they are now.. Psp=psp and nppl=nppl. Just make 1 event with both in them so it can cut cost for vendors and players. Just do that for a few years and then maybe change or adapt.. None of the other tournament series ( millennium, pals ) is going to change even if the psp does ( look at last years rule changes that have not been inplemeted in other series)
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