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Old 10-27-2011, 06:55 AM #22
loki007
 
 
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I had a few ideas on this subject:

"Well enforced" semi is a pain in the ***, we all know that-- but a choice between ramping, say set to 12.5 and semi capped at idk let's say 15 allows for a handicap on people who choose not to learn how to shoot quickly (there's still bs to deal with mechanically but its an idea)

The more I think about 6 man teams on the larger field the morethe idea intrigues me. A standard back 5 breakout tends to put 2 man teams on either side and a center player by themselves in the center thirdof the field. With a second body in there you have another 2 man zone (possibly, maybe not) and may add a new dimension to the game.

Also, it'd be cool to see a structure where the prelims across al backets are race to 4, then race to 5 the next rounds and only finals are a race to 7. I think we can all agree that a race to 7 points is the ideal match size for finals, and though it may add time to the finals round on Sunday, you're saving time (and paint money) across the board in prelims. Again, I'm not sure how the penalty structure would work as the rules would change between prelims and finals, but its an idea.
Thoughts?
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Old 10-27-2011, 08:54 AM #23
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Been a lil slow at work this morning and thought I would throw in my 2 cents


All pro sports have coaches yelling from the sideline

Football - talk to QB in their helmet
Hockey - yelling from the bench
Baseball - managers making calls from the dugout
BB coaches - yelling plays from the court sideline

People can get loud enough where it doesn't matter / Or they can be quiet

Think fan participation - do you really want fans not yelling at players telling what they think they should do? That's what fans do.

Unlimited points

The best team will win, you donít have to worry about you need the next (insert # here) points
Can try different things without worrying about a point
Could make the halves shorter to reduce paint costs
Reduce ROF if needed
Points margin will become more important when it comes to making the cut
Possibly just for PRO
Conditioning actually matters - find it funny to see players ripping butts before/during games
More strategy involved in more points
Would really test a player mental toughness

5 people

Debatable - could be 6, 7
Would just mean longer games - 5 is good
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Old 10-27-2011, 11:32 AM #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak36 View Post
So, say PSP went to 7-Man RaceTo. Would you change the NCPA xball(or whatever class A format is called) to the new 7-Man RaceTo format?
No way in hell. The last thing I need to do to my teams is tell them they need a 40% larger roster.

People seem to forget that CURRENT 7-man is 7 players on the field every 20-60 minutes. So you use the same 7, 8, or 9 guys.

CURRENT RaceTo-7 is 5 players on the field every 2 minutes, so you run with 10-12.

7-man RaceTo-7 will mean 14+ player rosters.

How many teams out there do you think can muster that many players?

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Last edited by raehl : 10-27-2011 at 11:34 AM.
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Old 10-27-2011, 11:44 AM #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seekey View Post
You could certainly enforce Semi better.
You have no idea what you are talking about. Semi-auto with electronic guns can not be enforced, period.

Quote:
Everybody knows what a gun taking off sounds like.
So ramping that doesn't sound like it is "taking off" is "legal" then?

Quote:
Just refs don't enforce it. Have refs actually pull bodies off the field when a gun is bouncing and you'll see people jacking their debounce up a lot more.
Gotcha, so every time any of the 10 refs on the field thinks your gun is "taking off", they pull you and a buddy?

You can't be serious.

Quote:
Adding a ROF cap really helps as well as you can see in any 7man league.
I can't believe people can say this with a straight face.

If semi-auto is being enforced, a ROF cap is useless.

If a ROF cap helps, then you are not enforcing semi-auto.

If you say that you CAN enforce semi-auto, AND a ROF cap helps, then ... well, the polite way to say it is that your brain is in an alternate reality.


Quote:
Sure there are some guns that are bouncing up to the cap but the vast majority are shooting legal.
So, you are advocating a system where you can raise your rate of fire as long as you're willing to cheat.

Quote:
Issue a set of minimum setting for debounce along with ROF.
And you're going to enforce the minimum debounce setting how?



Look, I'm going to stop now. You have no idea what you are talking about. You are completely clueless about this issue.

The FACT of the matter is, if there are electronic guns on the field, those guns are ramping. Putting a sentence on a piece of paper that says "you are only allowed to shoot semi-auto" does not in any way affect the FACT that if there are electronic guns on the field, people are ramping. Absolutely nothing you write down will have any effect on what the guns on the field are doing.


The only thing that affects what the guns on the field are doing is under what circumstances penalties are assessed.

If penalties are only assessed when a gun exceeds 12.5 bps (PSP), then everyone's guns will ramp up to 12.5 bps.

If penalties are only assessed when a gun exceeds 15 bps (NPPL), then everyone's guns will ramp up to 15 bps.


The options are ramping, and ramping.


Look, if you think shooting "semi-auto" is a skill, raise your debounce and shoot semi-auto.

But I'm just going to set my gun to add an extra shot every 1.5 pulls or so once I hit 8 BPS, shoot faster than you with no skills whatsoever, and there's nothing anyone is going to do about it.


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Last edited by raehl : 10-27-2011 at 11:47 AM.
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Old 10-27-2011, 12:03 PM #26
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Old 10-27-2011, 12:44 PM #27
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One question I have about a potential merger is: How many events is too many (for pro teams)? If there's only one league, how many events should there be? 5? 6?

Sure, it'll lower costs for teams that currently compete in both leagues, but it'll raise costs for all the other teams.
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Old 10-27-2011, 12:50 PM #28
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Would an rof cap on semi do anything to stop bouncing? If so it could be interesting to either choose to ramp to say 12.5 or semi capped at somethin higher, say 15 for argument purposes.

Semi is a skill whether its capped or not, and personally I like the idea of shooting in my own timing and rhythm at my own speed even if my lanes aren't as exact as they would be if I was shooting with one finger.
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Old 10-27-2011, 03:28 PM #29
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Shooting quickly in semi is a skill that can be learned in a very small amount of time. To a tournament player who's played for a while, it makes almost no difference. In my opinion, 12.5 ramp is the way to go. Let people focus on making moves, not how fast they're walking the trigger.
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Old 10-27-2011, 04:03 PM #30
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Semi is enforced well and the 15 bps thing has taken away the unlimited end of the cheating scale. A little bounce is nota bad thing, I will take 'semi-ramping' over flat out ramping all day. You are full of **** to think it takes no skill to shoot semi auto, I really dont care how much you say you can cheat better than me or whatever... If you can get your gun to ramp with both hands and its at a level that is undetectable (ref's legit ALLOW a controlled amount of bounce...) then you would have more skill than half the people in the NPPL. I tune my teams guns, I hide the bounce, I play semi tourneys all over everywhere and have been reffed by alot of people, it is OK to have some bounce and 'semi' does not in any way mean one shot one pull BUT I guarantee there is an acceptable limit. I have plenty of players that ***** about shooting off hand, I watch PRO'S serve tea and shoot lazy lefty all day... It is and will remain a skill. You can only get away with so much which is acceptable, and now that you cant just ramp up to 20bps its really not a big deal, your kick in rof will suck while snapping off hand and you will need to be able to shoot consistantly to keep the rof up there.

If you don't think it takes more skill in tuning the guns, more skill in shooting the guns and that its a personal risk that teams are taking then you are blind to the subject. It is and has been enforceable, sorry. It is the job of the league to enforce what level of bounce is acceptable, I guarantee you wont get away with shooting 8bps and ramping up to 15bps without a ref figuring it out before you get on the field.

By the way, thank you for the mittens comment! love it.
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Old 10-27-2011, 04:16 PM #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shock2k3 View Post
Semi is enforced well and the 15 bps thing has taken away the unlimited end of the cheating scale.
You are ridiculous.

"Everyone is shooting semi-auto, except all the people who are cheating, which we'll stop with a ROF cap."

If people are cheating yo get over 15 bps without the ROF cap, then...

...you're not enforcing semi-auto!

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Old 10-27-2011, 04:29 PM #32
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Old 10-27-2011, 04:41 PM #33
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Look, opinion is just that and I'm sorry you don't believe there is a way to enforce it. The limitations on what you get away with are not bad and it does require more skill to cheat. These unforgivable cheating bastards are not pulling 10 shooting 20. were talking 3 to maybe 5 bps ramp and how much you push it is on you. It is a learned skill to shoot semi and to tune the guns to where you feel comfortable you won't get a penalty.

Which by the way a more skilled player wouldn't have to take so much risk.
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Old 10-27-2011, 04:52 PM #34
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Originally Posted by sumorai View Post
One question I have about a potential merger is: How many events is too many (for pro teams)? If there's only one league, how many events should there be? 5? 6?

Sure, it'll lower costs for teams that currently compete in both leagues, but it'll raise costs for all the other teams.
I'd like to see something like six events but you only keep your top four scores (or something along those lines). Pro's should have to keep all scoring and have to be at every event though, people from all regions should get to see their favorite teams and the overall cost of a single six event series would be less for pro sponsors than the four and four we use now.
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Old 10-28-2011, 04:20 AM #35
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Did the NPPL tryout with the pros a chip that tracked ROF and # of shots? Is this something that could be used to enforce semi?
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Old 10-28-2011, 07:14 AM #36
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Require people to purchase a chip, or the league has to stomach the cost of purchasing it for everyone? Then, the system that tracks the data?

Yikes. No thanks.

Its not like it requires a great deal of know-how to even design the board for these markers to add extremely subtle methods of adding shots. Ramping is easy to enforce and forces it back onto the strategy of playing. Just leave it alone.
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Old 10-28-2011, 09:10 AM #37
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Yes, the NPPL put chips in our guns that track ROF and other stats. I didn't pay for mine, so I'm guessing there was some agreement between the league and Virtue. I like 12.5 ramp personally after playing it at Cup.
And the proposed number of events for a merged league next year is 5.
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Old 10-28-2011, 09:12 AM #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shock2k3 View Post
It is a learned skill ... to tune the guns to where you feel comfortable you won't get a penalty.
So we're in agreement - the only "skill" is changing the settings on a piece of electronics to get the optimum amount of cheating.

Sorry to bust up your fantasy.

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Old 10-28-2011, 09:17 AM #39
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Did the NPPL tryout with the pros a chip that tracked ROF and # of shots? Is this something that could be used to enforce semi?
The chip tells you when the solenoid is activated. It doesn't help you with knowing whether the number of times the solenoid is activated matches the number of times the trigger was pulled.

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Old 10-28-2011, 09:17 AM #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJRoth View Post
Yes, the NPPL put chips in our guns that track ROF and other stats. I didn't pay for mine, so I'm guessing there was some agreement between the league and Virtue. I like 12.5 ramp personally after playing it at Cup.
And the proposed number of events for a merged league next year is 5.
I personally think the number of events if merged is 6, but make it for the lower divisions only your 3 best events out of the first 5 get you seeding for cup which all teams go to. At cup all of the season points are added and the division winners are crowned based on best 3 out of first 5 events and cup (as the fourth)
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Old 10-28-2011, 09:25 AM #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by painter4life05 View Post
I personally think the number of events if merged is 6, but make it for the lower divisions only your 3 best events out of the first 5 get you seeding for cup which all teams go to. At cup all of the season points are added and the division winners are crowned based on best 3 out of first 5 events and cup (as the fourth)
While I like the idea of encouraging teams to play national events and be able to get the season title without traveling as much each year and breaking bank, it does discourage the participation of lower division teams in all 5 or 6 events. I think 5 would be the optimal number events.
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Old 10-28-2011, 09:31 AM #42
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Why in the **** would you waste time and effort "enforcing" semi when you can just make everyone use ramping? It is a waste of resources to do otherwise. And why you guys think semi is such a valuable skill is truly beyond me. The ignorance that exists on PbNation baffles me at times.
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