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View Poll Results: What format should competitive paintball follow next year?
Keep two leagues: PSP and NPPL each have something to offer 390 17.33%
NPPL 7-Man (no coaching) 256 11.38%
PSP 5-Man RaceTo (coaching) 632 28.09%
PSP style RaceTo with more than 5 players on the field (coaching) 232 10.31%
NPPL style with less than 7 players on the field (no coaching) 173 7.69%
I don't care, just merge the leagues already, I'll play any of it. 429 19.07%
Just get rid of coaching and I'll play it. 486 21.60%
Just make sure it uses the point system and I'll play it. 197 8.76%
Pump tournaments - added by request late 217 9.64%
Woodsball Tournaments (like the UWL) - added by request late 270 12.00%
Timed Matches (not a race to a set number of points) - added by request real late 221 9.82%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 2250. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-26-2011, 11:19 PM #211
vijil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JD9940 View Post
there was a format created by Evan Money titled "Moneyball" that was similar.
From what I remember:
- Center Flag
- 5 Man
- Not sure on firing mode or coaching
Here's where it got interesting:
The flag was like an "Elimination Line". If a player on one team grabbed the flag and advanced up the field with it, and his team would be considered on "Offense". Any "Defensive" player on the wrong side of the "Elimination Line" would be pulled out. So in theory a team could grab the flag and advance up the field to eliminate the 5 opposing players without actually shooting a player on another team.
I remember it and honestly it's not similar at all. Moneyball would be impossible to referee accurately (you just know players will keep shooting because they don't know they're out) and a massive departure from the usual rules - it also changed the way breakouts work so that players would start in cover from just about any position. It's problem was that it was too different. It died for good reasons.

My idea is exactly the same as regular raceto, you just remove the flag and replace it with a touchdown line/zone which can be right at the other end, or maybe about 5m onto the field. Takes care of all the same problems (focal points, stalemates) in a much simpler way that makes easy sense. Imo it would also encourage a greater variety of tactics and set plays.

Now I haven't actually played my idea so I'm not sure what issues would arise. The main one that occurs to me is that if a team did a rush and several of them got over the line the refs might have issues figuring out who was/wasn't shot in the chaos. That's the only real problem I can think of however. Maybe there are more?

Still worth a shot. I'll see if I can convince some guys to playtest it, and I'd appreciate anyone else doing the same. Guess I'll call it vBall for now...

Mmf I'll make a separate thread in the tourney section.

Last edited by vijil : 10-26-2011 at 11:58 PM.
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Old 10-26-2011, 11:30 PM #212
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7 man, race2, no coaching, ramping 12.5. boom
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Old 10-26-2011, 11:59 PM #213
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Honestly, if we want this sport to get anywhere in the mainstream media we need to make it "more like a sport"

We need points and a game clock, and (insert perfect field size and teammate number for ease of spectating herea0

One big reason this sport isn't huge is the cost to play. You can't go get all your gear at big five for 15 bucks (like a football or basketball). and if we want this sport to expand, we will need more players which means more sales and cheaper gear.

What do we need to accomplish this?

ADVERTISING.

We have to make the game easy enough for parents to be able to watch with their kids so dad says "go bunker that dude!" etc.

We need to appeal to the sport community.

My Ideal Style of Play
small teams, 7 or 5
attractive court
NO COACHING
and equal viewerbase for all divisions (stands for every division/field)

Make an end all be all league, and possibly a completely separate end all be all pro league. (it might take some viewers from main events from other lower division teams.) but we need to model our sport after other sports, and try to make paintball as accesible to people as any other everyday sport.

To do this we need to get the word out

but the word we are sending out needs to be as perfect as possible so the general public will accept it.

I understand perfection is asking a lot, but I feel like it is possible to 'get there" If we (community and companies) pull their heads out of their ***** and pull together for the greater good.

/drunken rant


edit - also I think that the rate of fire should be capped full auto. 10, 12, or 15.
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Old 10-27-2011, 12:09 AM #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel. View Post
Honestly, if we want this sport to get anywhere in the mainstream media we need to make it "more like a sport"

We need points and a game clock, and (insert perfect field size and teammate number for ease of spectating herea0

One big reason this sport isn't huge is the cost to play. You can't go get all your gear at big five for 15 bucks (like a football or basketball). and if we want this sport to expand, we will need more players which means more sales and cheaper gear.

What do we need to accomplish this?

ADVERTISING.

We have to make the game easy enough for parents to be able to watch with their kids so dad says "go bunker that dude!" etc.

We need to appeal to the sport community.

My Ideal Style of Play
small teams, 7 or 5
attractive court
NO COACHING
and equal viewerbase for all divisions (stands for every division/field)

Make an end all be all league, and possibly a completely separate end all be all pro league. (it might take some viewers from main events from other lower division teams.) but we need to model our sport after other sports, and try to make paintball as accesible to people as any other everyday sport.

To do this we need to get the word out

but the word we are sending out needs to be as perfect as possible so the general public will accept it.

I understand perfection is asking a lot, but I feel like it is possible to 'get there" If we (community and companies) pull their heads out of their ***** and pull together for the greater good.

/drunken rant


edit - also I think that the rate of fire should be capped full auto. 10, 12, or 15.

it doesnt have to be cheap. its never going to be football or baseball, and people just need to accept that.

compare it more to something like racing of nearly any type. expensive to get into and stay in and much more fun to compete than to watch. it is what it is, i think we need to just enjoy ourselves and welcome new comers and help them, but the game doesnt need to be "dumbed down" or made to be easy for random passers by to understand... i think its already easy enough for a dad to say something like that, dont you?
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Old 10-27-2011, 12:25 AM #215
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Old 10-27-2011, 12:39 AM #216
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Old 10-27-2011, 05:17 AM #217
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bring back x-ball
and 15bps cap on all levels
but bps doesnt really matter tho
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Old 10-27-2011, 07:37 AM #218
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now, i have a video of the format we play so you guys see how fast and fun this is...

5 on 5 race to 4 format
capped ramp 12.5 bps
button style score on opposite banner
7 min max time
no coach, crowd participation encouraged

now in this particular video score was 3-2 and time left in clock was 30 seconds and the blue/red team rush to tie the match and the score button was not in its best shape.

http://www.youtube.com/user/SocialPa.../0/JdHCjoKVWZg
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Old 10-27-2011, 08:05 AM #219
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Real xball. I don't care about ROF, firing mode, or number of players.

I think we should also have real feeder leagues. Right now we just have random leagues that have absolutely no connection and no real standard rule book. I'm not even talking about the two different formats (NPPL and PSP), I'm talking about all the smaller regional leagues and tournaments.
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Old 10-27-2011, 08:34 AM #220
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Bring back xball. Keep 7 man.

No coaching.
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Old 10-27-2011, 09:00 AM #221
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If we are trying to promote the sport and get new players into tourneys, xball format is not the way to go.. I brought a lot of my employees to the last psp event in Chicago and they had no clue what was going on. They said " I saw a guy get smoked in his arm, he ran down the field and shot 3 guys, flags went flying and people where pulled on both teams" How do u expect people to understand the concept when everyone is cheating. Even check out the Frank Oconnell move on Oliver. Frank got screwed because xball forces the game to be to fast for the refs to even keep up. Make paintball about skill again. SEMI AUTO... NO MORE ACCURACY BY VOLUME RAMPING... IM JUST SAYING..
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Old 10-27-2011, 09:04 AM #222
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Frank doesn't play the PSP so are you sure you aren't talking about the NPPL?
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Old 10-27-2011, 09:07 AM #223
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X-Ball has evolved a lot over the years into the current Race2 format. Teams just couldn't afford the amount of paint shot in the original version and the gun rules were a nightmare that encouraged cheating. I don't think people know what they are asking for when they say "original X-ball" since no one has really played that since 2002.
"original" x-ball is why I stepped away from the game actually. Lets not necro ol' yeller please?
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Old 10-27-2011, 09:23 AM #224
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Race to format with pump guns
-keeps the athleticism of xball
-less paint consumed = cheaper.
-pump market would expand and improve
-more strategy involved in the game
-more skill will be needed to win
-no more sitting in a bunker pissing clips (like shooting 9 pods and shooting $70 of paint in one point....)
-keep the points system to makes it seem like a soccer game.
-new players less intimidating by fast shooting guns.
-more openings for more moves.

-in theory this sounds good, but a trial should be done with pros to see how it looks.
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Old 10-27-2011, 10:03 AM #225
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Honestly, I think everyone trying to convince everyone else that their ideal format is best is crazy. To say that one style is the reason you stepped away is BS. A new format came out, but all the other formats stayed in the game with the aception of 10-man. So if you played 10 man, then you stepped away from paintball because national tournaments stopped having tournaments in 10 man class. I'm seeing people saying no x-ball, no nppl, no coaching, coaching, pump only, semi only, etc...

Paintball is such a diverse sport that each format has it's up's and downs. Trying to make one style that everyone will buy into is impossible. Xball was suppose to be that format and look what is still going on. The answer is not to create one format for play at the national tournament level but to embrase all the formats. That's why I think that in a national series each event should highlight a different format. By doing it this way it forces teams to prove they are the best all around throughout the series instead of just one format.

Last edited by KookieMonster : 10-27-2011 at 10:07 AM.
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Old 10-27-2011, 10:05 AM #226
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Quote:
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Make the paint cost less,
And how would you suggest that happen?

Quote:
have people use semi.
How is that going to reduce paint usage?

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Old 10-27-2011, 10:35 AM #227
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Real X-ball with the same ROF to make Chris happy that we're shooting less paint.

But as it still isn't on the poll, I guess that voids everyone's opinion on the matter.
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Old 10-27-2011, 11:15 AM #228
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I just say stop hosting events at expensive *** venues and lower the entry fees. Make NPPL a west coast league and and PSP an east coast. 5 Man psp rules minus coaching for both then at the very end of a season do a east vs west shootout.
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Old 10-27-2011, 11:17 AM #229
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Bring back real X-ball
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Old 10-27-2011, 11:46 AM #230
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Disclaimer: I do not play competitive paintball. I do run a paintball business. I do follow paintball quite a bit. If I were younger with more spare time, I would probably be involved in competitive paintball in some capacity. I did not read all 11 pages of previous posts, although I did read enough to draw the following conclusion.

Competitive paintball has a problem with sustaining itself (that problem has increased with advances in technology over the years). Paintball industry also has a problem supporting paintball, at least to the tune that leagues and players would like. When one looks at the poll, it's very obvious that there is no one single format in paintball. Paintball is split and it seems there almost as many opinions about what format competitive paintball should be as there are paintball players. There is no possible way, competitive paintball will ever be a recognizable force if competitive paintball doesn't unite and figure out one common format. And that format had better be sustainable (affordable for both players and industry to support). If that does not happen, paintball will continue to be exactly as it is today; somewhat popular but spread very thin and participated only by a very small percentage of the population and the majority of those that choose to participate will only stay involved for relatively short periods of time.
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Old 10-27-2011, 12:12 PM #231
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I've played paintball for years now and still never been able to get myself to commit to a team and play in any actual tourney ball but I plan to next year. One of the big things I think that keeps players like myself out is all of the different formats and making it difficult to understand all the differences and rules involved with each style of play.

I'm all for the leagues merging because for marketing, publicity, and general progress of the sport into mainstream it is definitely where things need to go. There needs to be a central entity that can publish all rules and make it easy for new players to get involved and at the same time keep the appeal of the top end pro teams all battling for a national title.

I think the one thing you can take away from this poll is that people don't like coaching, so if you drop that all together, what would be the harm in having one big league that offers multiple formats? You can still have amateur through pro for 5-man, and the same for 7-man. Just normalize it to uncapped semi for everyone, and some type of common scoring system. Then the only difference between styles of play would just be if you want to play on a closer quarters 5-man game or a larger field 7-man game, where the tactics between either would be different but all of the fundamentals are the same.

Just my 2 cents.
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