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Old 10-23-2011, 10:50 PM #1
yanks914
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Race to 4 / 2012 Discussion

**DISCLAIMER**
I do not work or in no way affliated with the GPL other then being a player. Nothing in this post is factual or supported unless specified. This is simply a thread to start some hopefully positive discussion for a possible route for this league.

There have been talks for some while now of people wanting Race-to-4 or some other x-ball-esque format in the GPL. There was even an attempt at GPXL a few years back if I remember correctly. However there has not been much discussed about the actual decisions that would fuel this growth of a new league format. I am going to attempt to touch base with as much of that I can think. Any useful thoughts/info I will edit into this first post. So please refer back to this original post when reading through this thread, it will be updated.

So you want to play Race-to-4 in GPL. Great! So do alot of other teams, but exactly how many other teams are there. This is a question that will effect decisions made by both the league and possible participants. The easiest way to tackle this question will be to look at it from those two points of view.

League.
Does the GPL even want to run a Race-to-4? Is it possible for them to do it? None of the following is fact, simply assumptions made using available info.

Time Constraints-
If a Race-to-4 format was adapted would the event still run in one day? Or would we need to expand to 2 days? This answer obviously relies on how many teams will be playing. So let us figure that out. Assuming that teams that play PSP Race-to-4 would be interested, how many teams would that be for GPL. Assuming that this would be some sort of D3/D4 combination we can gather the following pool of possible teams from this season's PSP attendance. If I have left any teams out please let me know.

EC Rampage, Lift D4, Milf Hunters, NJ Jesters, Swarm, Revo, Topgun, Playground Legends, FACK.

So that is 9 teams. Lets say 10 for the event to help make math easier. Each team will be required to play 4 prelim matches for a total of 40 prelim matches. PSP allocates 25 minutes per match. Assuming the same that makes over 16 hours for prelims alone. Obviously the event will have to be a 2 day event.

So the main question here is - Can the GPL run two day events? I would assume they would keep their 3man and 5 man divisions. So that would require the running of 2 fields on saturday and 3 on sunday. Something to think about.

Field Logistics-
The next big question is the logistics of running a Race-to-4 event. I do not doubt that GPL/OXCC have the abilites to make this happen. I know USPA was run out of OXCC which means that full pits with air lines must have been set up. The exact same will have to be done along with scoreboards and everything. This part I do not doubt will cause much concern for this debate.

Cost-
Like any business, an expansion will require more costs. These will involve paying extra refs/scoreboard keepers. Being a business I do not doubt that GPL will factor these costs into a plan that will still drive a profit at the end of the day.

Now the debate can be swung to the other side, and perhaps the biggest side, of the equation......

Teams

Cost-
This will probably be in no doubt the biggest deciding factor in if teams will even come out to a Race-to-4 event. Entry is a mute point. It is whatever the league will set it at and there is no way around it. Teams will decide amongst themselves if that will be affordable enough. The two variables in this equation will be traveling expenses and paint. The event will have to be two days. Can your team afford to travel for two days? Or an extra night at the hotel for that matter? This will be a small cost compared to paint.

The average team in a single match can shoot anywhere from 10 to 15 cases. If people think these numbers are inaccurate please let me know. Through prelims a team will shoot anywhere from 40 to 60 cases. Throw in 2 - 3 playoff matches and that number ranges from 60 - 100 cases all together. Going off of GPL's paint prices a teams paint bill can range from 2 to 5 thousand dollars. How that is divided up amongst players is an individual team's concern, but that is a number that every team must accept before even considering playing a Race-to-4 event.

Reasons to play -
Besides cost, a team must have a reason to play. Now obviously one reason that is undeniable is the excellence that GPL runs their events with. This part is undebatable. Prizes may be another concern. Obviously anything that can help offset event expenses is preferred to gear. The third part is experience. Teams playing these events will want a good enough experience to help prepare for PSP aka great competition.



I know this article is a little long winded, but I am tired and this is the best I can do right now. I have no motive for this article exactly, just to stir up the conversation as we move into the offseason. I am not saying that GPL needs a Race-to-4 division, but what I am trying to do is avoid what happened this season with 7 man. That is having a ton of teams begging for a format and it being offered. Then no one signing up and that leave a bad taste in everyone's mouths for awhile about that format being in the league. I am trying to make sure we take the time to think about this before jumping into something we cannot handle.

My personal idea is that this will generate alot of interest from teams, but possibly not enough to get a whole season's worth of events out of. I think if offered, the league should only do it at a couple events as a test. Perhaps twice a years at the even number of events or thrice a year at the odd number of events.


If anyone has anything to say to me in private about the topic please feel free to PM me

Here's to a productive offseason and the anxious anticipation for spring to get here soon.

Cheers
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Old 10-25-2011, 02:36 PM #2
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Also for the sake of discussion let us assume that there will be no merger this offseason/no rule changes in PSP/GPL will stay the same. That will make any headaches a wee bit less severe.
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Old 10-25-2011, 03:09 PM #3
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For the sake of this discussion, Playground Legends will be playing the full season of GPL in 2012. We will play in the highest division offered, with whatever format is offered. This is assuming that the cost to reward ratio stays the same or greater than the cost and prize list offered in 2011.

With that said, we also support the move for GPL offer a similar format to the Division 3 Race to X format offered by the PSP. Again, so long as the reward for playing such outweighs the cost.

For a division like the one we are discussing here, a prize list that would be deemed favorable would be something similar to what the NEPL offers.
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Old 10-25-2011, 06:45 PM #4
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Old 10-25-2011, 07:41 PM #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deimus85 View Post
For the sake of this discussion, Playground Legends will be playing the full season of GPL in 2012. We will play in the highest division offered, with whatever format is offered. This is assuming that the cost to reward ratio stays the same or greater than the cost and prize list offered in 2011.

With that said, we also support the move for GPL offer a similar format to the Division 3 Race to X format offered by the PSP. Again, so long as the reward for playing such outweighs the cost.

For a division like the one we are discussing here, a prize list that would be deemed favorable would be something similar to what the NEPL offers.

Just so everyone is on the same page....what NEPL prizes are you thinking of exactly because they have like 7 divisions. Are you suggesting GPL open up to the possibility of having all of those divisions?
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Old 10-25-2011, 08:06 PM #6
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Quote:
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Just so everyone is on the same page....what NEPL prizes are you thinking of exactly because they have like 7 divisions. Are you suggesting GPL open up to the possibility of having all of those divisions?
The prizes from the division similar to the format we are talking about.
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Old 10-26-2011, 12:12 AM #7
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The prizes from the division similar to the format we are talking about.
According to their website cash is the prize your talking about.....unless im mistaken
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Old 10-26-2011, 08:11 AM #8
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According to their website cash is the prize your talking about.....unless im mistaken
Yes, but also the series prize is entry to World Cup.
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Old 10-26-2011, 09:35 AM #9
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I support a Race to X format too, would be a great idea.
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Old 10-26-2011, 07:20 PM #10
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Temple would be interested in a Race to 4 or Xball format.
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Old 10-26-2011, 09:10 PM #11
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we should probably start with a list of the teams that would be interested in this. If this is what we want, we need to show the league that there is legitimate interest in this format.
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Old 10-27-2011, 11:10 AM #12
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Take Notes will be playing the D3 division next year. I would love to see a Race to 4 format!
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Old 10-28-2011, 12:05 PM #13
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I like the ideas and suggestions. Heres a something to think about when talking about this. Time. How long does it take to run lets say hypothectically - 25 teams in the Race 2 format compared to Race to 4. That is a HUGE factor. Just about all of the teams can only commit to a one day event. That is one of the beauties of the GPL/MAPL. Is it is a one day event. If we go to two days, costs just went up on teams and for me as well and I beleive the team numbers would go down.

As Deimus85 stated, you guys need to make sure the cost spent on the event for you guys is cost affective if you win, well same goes for me. Need to make sure its cost affective to run the event based on what is coming in from paint and entry.

Keep the ideas coming in. Def great discussion material for the off season as we prep for the 2012 Season.
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Old 10-29-2011, 11:14 AM #14
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For D3 I suggest X-ball lite format. 10min halves and you play 2 matches in the prelims.
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Old 10-31-2011, 09:25 AM #15
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Maybe it wouldn't be such a bad idea to try to move to a two-day event for Race-to-4. It works for WCPPL. Of course I don't have any idea of the costs involved in that expansion, but I for one would be totally game for a two-day event
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Old 10-31-2011, 10:23 PM #16
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Cindy. as far as times go. Instead of 8 teams playing a race to 2 format in each bracket... you play 4 teams race to 4.... Also with a lot less time in between points.. points would only run 2:00 min apart... then 5:00 inbetween matches with two teams in each pit. I know alot of time is spent finding teams to get on the field. If they only had two matches they wwould most likely be ready *no dodgy*


i also think gpl should follow psp's ranking system allowing 2 d3 players in d4 and two d2 players in d3... Getting alot more players out there.
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Old 11-01-2011, 12:14 AM #17
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Quote:
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Cindy. as far as times go. Instead of 8 teams playing a race to 2 format in each bracket... you play 4 teams race to 4.... Also with a lot less time in between points.. points would only run 2:00 min apart... then 5:00 inbetween matches with two teams in each pit. I know alot of time is spent finding teams to get on the field. If they only had two matches they wwould most likely be ready *no dodgy*


i also think gpl should follow psp's ranking system allowing 2 d3 players in d4 and two d2 players in d3... Getting alot more players out there.
That would make for approximately 6 hours per bracket for prelims.....then playoffs and what have you. Just to get the math out of the way for everyone lol
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Old 11-01-2011, 12:30 AM #18
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I like 2 day events..its more involved and fun
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Old 11-01-2011, 09:19 AM #19
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i also think gpl should follow psp's ranking system allowing 2 d3 players in d4 and two d2 players in d3... Getting alot more players out there.
We polled players and they did NOT want that. Remember we are regional league, not national, we are a stepping stone. I already get tons of complaints about players who play 1 D3 event and are still ranked D4. I come from old school, I remember the days when Rookie teams played pros and am's and higher ranked teams through out the day. I personally like that, but this league is not about my choice, it is the majority of what the players want. I will create a poll again so that it can help up mold the 2012 season and go from there.
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Old 11-01-2011, 09:22 AM #20
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I like 2 day events..its more involved and fun
2 day events are fun, but again, it is what the majority of the players want. Plus cost affectiveness too. by going two days, I add more expenses of a reffing crew. If the take in is equal to what I had for the 2011 season, it would not work financially AND still award good prizes. Remember we are a regional league. When we did the 7man, we had issues with it being 2 days because players did not want 2 days. We have quite of bit of players who play because they can do it in one day. But I will poll the players and go from there..
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Old 11-01-2011, 09:24 AM #21
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That would make for approximately 6 hours per bracket for prelims.....then playoffs and what have you. Just to get the math out of the way for everyone lol
Is that PER field? If you get a chance, can you private message me your math and formula on how you came up with that.. I want to make sure nothing is missing in the equation.
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