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Old 10-03-2011, 03:57 AM #43
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Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
Motor sports are the most spectated events in the world.
Those event's people go for the atmosphere not so much the racing. I mean you would have to be pretty damn hardcore to watch a group of cars go around in a circle 500 times. wow weee so much fun. I wonder what's gonna happen next...a left turn! and another!
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Old 10-03-2011, 08:34 AM #44
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Have you seen the kinds of shows on tv lately? Hoarders? Pawnstars? Shows about who can save the most money when shopping(coupon king?) I think paintball could do okay on tv ..
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Old 10-03-2011, 08:56 AM #45
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I think I have the ticket to a watchable TV show built around paintball, but there's no way I'm turning the idea loose in here.

Off to pitch it to the networks!
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Old 10-03-2011, 02:13 PM #46
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one thing i've never understood is that the psp 5 man gameplay was based around a spectator-friendly version of paintball but the only pro paintball events seen on tv are the slower-paced 7 man events.
why hasn't psp ever had a big deal on tv? honestly, i's more aggressive, fster gameplay (before they changed the field size and rof)
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Old 10-03-2011, 03:36 PM #47
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As much as it's heresy for a player to say, the real key to making paintball watchable on TV isn't fast guns, a'la NXL's 15bps full auto. It's slow guns. The issue as it is with conventional paintball is that there's too much going on to focus anywhere. The paint isn't visible generally as its being shot, and having 10 to 14 streams shown (as with the NHL's puck tracker technology) would make it even more unwatchable. Slowing the guns down puts the focus on the players, forces the players to be the star rather than the gun, and you'll see move movement, which shows up much better on a TV show. When a commentator talks about the "great shot from the back corner player", nobody saw the shooting, but they did see someone moving up the field and then turn off to the out of bounds area. Put the focus on the players, not the firepower, and it's a step in the right direction.
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Old 10-03-2011, 08:40 PM #48
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one thing i've never understood is that the psp 5 man gameplay was based around a spectator-friendly version of paintball but the only pro paintball events seen on tv are the slower-paced 7 man events.
why hasn't psp ever had a big deal on tv? honestly, i's more aggressive, fster gameplay (before they changed the field size and rof)
Because most (...most...) televised paintball events were doing it the wrong way around. Rather than promoting their events until there was a spectator base large enough where stations wanted to show paintball...they instead just bought TV air time and just paid a ton for basically an hour of airtime that no one watched.

PSP being more business smart at least recognizes that the current structure of the sport is player funded and that the spectator base is weak so they didn't waste as much money on airtime almost nobody is seeing. The part where I disagree with PSP is that they seem to spend almost all their effort on tweaking rules, venues, and event counts thinking that some magic rule set and venue will bring droves of fans to an event they don't know about in the first place because it wasn't advertised in a way that would bring first time spectators.

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Old 12-02-2011, 01:29 AM #49
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Old 12-02-2011, 07:42 AM #50
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Motor sports are the most spectated events in the world.
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Originally Posted by steve_81 View Post
Those event's people go for the atmosphere not so much the racing. I mean you would have to be pretty damn hardcore to watch a group of cars go around in a circle 500 times. wow weee so much fun. I wonder what's gonna happen next...a left turn! and another!
Dude, he said motor sports. That includes a whole hell of a lot more than just NASCAR and he is right about their popularity, especially in Europe.
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Old 12-02-2011, 12:38 PM #51
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i have no idea why and it gets me mad because im 14 and barely starting to make my own money to get into local tournaments and stuff, and now pro's and all that stuff is going down slowly, so i have no idea what to do....and its SO FUN
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Old 12-06-2011, 02:27 AM #52
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Whoever said paintball is too repetitive for the viewer's liking are you kidding me?
Paintball isn't more repetitive than watching a baseball game...
Paintball isn't more repetitive than watching tennis players hit volley after volley...
Paintball isn't more repetitive than watching basketball players dribble back and forth down the court...
Paintball isn't more repetitive than watching NASCAR drivers go around and around the track for hundreds of laps...

All sports have their own degree of repetition.
As far as paintball goes, with the bunker runs off the break, with players snapping around behind bunkers, with players bunkering other players, with players jumping over snakes and other bunkers, I would have to say it's one of the more unique and spontaneous sports.

Paintball is not losing popularity due to it's "lack" of action or because of it's "repetition".
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Old 12-06-2011, 08:38 AM #53
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I think two main factors, both happening roughly at the same time, made tournament paintball participation drop. The prices of paintballs and the economy going sour. Let me explain.

For many years, basically since the beginning of the paintball industry, wholesale and retail paintball prices were on a steady decline. They kept getting cheaper. This was due to the fact that more and more people were playing and therefore there was a drive to better the technology to produce paintballs cheaper as there were now several companies competing in the sales of paintballs. Economies of scale (unit price decreases as you make larger volumes of items) came into affect.

Obviously in paintball, if players/teams shoot higher volumes of paintball, it will give them an advantage, all else being equal. So as paintball prices were dropping, the amount players used in tournaments rose accordingly. Players shot as much as they could afford to shoot, so they could have a chance of winning against other teams that were doing the same.

This peaked in the middle of the first decade of the new millennium. At that time, paintball prices at the wholesale level started to increase. Competition among manufacturers had driven the price of paintballs so low, that the price was not sustainable and they had no choice but to raise the prices. But tournament players had developed playing styles based on cheap paintballs and players felt it necessary to continue shooting those volumes to be competitive. The economy taking a nose dive happened relatively shortly after the increase in paintball prices started. This was a second hit the players were taking, making the game they wanted to play in a style they felt they needed to play (and still do to this day) too expensive for many to deal with. Therefore, participation dropped.

There is one more, third factor, that is also based on the economy. Paintball manufacturers and fields, also hit by the economy and less players participating, pulled back paint sponsorships. They are able to help out less, making it that much more expensive to take part in the style of tournament play that everyone got used to and felt necessary to play to have a chance at winning.

The above reason is also why we are seeing a rise in popularity of limited paint and limited technology tournaments. People will always want to compete, but "regular" tournament play is out of reach for many players, so they opt for forced limit tournaments, where they can shoot less, because the other team is also shooting less. That type of play would rise even more in popularity, were it not for the demographic that makes up the majority of our participants. Male teens and young adults, full of testosterone, do not want to give up the high octane version for a lite (what some might consider wimpy) version of tournament play.

Economic pressure are responsible for most changes in industry (unless a change is regulated somehow). What people can afford to do and what they might want to do, are not necessarily the same thing. This is definitely the case for tournament play.
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Old 12-23-2011, 03:39 PM #54
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Little bit of thread necro here, but Horizon's points are right on. I just want to add two thoughts.

The other month I watched the webcast of the Russians versus Damage WC psp final from this year. It was very well done, with the exception of a few instances of "Hey look at that guy," and then there's no cut in the video. But as I watched it dawned on me how utterly boring the match was. I was watching the world pinnacle of competitive paintball, and practically nothing happened. The combination of unlimited paint, effortless non-stop 12 bps from the psp burst mode, the race to only seven points, and the limited match time all contributed to no one taking more than a handful of risks the entire match. There were like two big-ish moves the whole match. And I know Lane himself has commented on this problem as well. Everyone shoots shoots shoots til someone screws up (rather than being gun fought out) and then one guy moves one bunker forward. Game after game.

I personally think limited in-game paint would really loosen the game up. Allocate a maximum number of pods per team per point and fix maximum pod dimensions. At the starting station there could be a rack that teams put all their pods in for the ref to see, then loads them up when its time. If a pod doesn't fit in the rack, it's too big (and your problem and not the ref's.) Leave the psp burst mode in place, or heck lift it since no one is going to be ripping 20bps for long if they only have three pods on them.

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Old 12-24-2011, 02:13 PM #55
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Economy - lets face it, people don't have the spendable money they used to have....

Industry - result of economy - Paintball market is diminishing, companies leaving and closing out etc.

Society - nobody wants their kids shooting guns anymore, people are too concerned with bad representations because thats all they're trained to see - keeping new players out of a great team-based game. Also this country has had multiple legal issues with the industry - orange tips, neon painted guns, lots of related legislation. Also the fact that paintball uses guns, which are still instruments with triggers and projectiles, people jump to "oh shooting people like that isn't healthy for your brain, there has to be something wrong with those people for them to do that" and on top of it they freak when they see markers that are replicated from military arms (BT, Tiberius, Tipp, Etc)

Community Members - imo the attitude of some in the community doesn't make it all too appealing, everyone in the competitive scene tries to one up each other and **** on the guy next to them (**** talking, sabatoge, , making it seem like a dishonorable sport filled with dishonorable people - bunch of teenagers (most of the time) shooting guns at each other trying to look badass, while talking **** at the same time... "chyeahhh cool mang.." If there was more sportsmanship that was obviously present, i think a lot of people would see it differently - and i honestly would go play more... i hate shooting someone and them tryign to start **** because they bounced me or didn't get me out.. or people screaming and swearing at me when i get hit and take .25 seconds to get out "***** i hit you gtfo"... "yeah... i know... give me some time to get off the field... jackasssss"

spewing all this based on outsiders opinions.... sucks... i know... but it's the people that don't play paintball that also control our status as a community - because we can't get them to play... There needs to be more love in the players for the other players and the game itself.. I'd like to see handshakes after the games, similar to other sports that people play..
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Old 07-26-2012, 08:15 PM #56
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all our money went bye bye
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Old 07-26-2012, 10:11 PM #57
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all our money went bye bye
Necro much?
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Old 07-26-2012, 10:27 PM #58
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Little bit of thread necro here, but Horizon's points are right on. I just want to add two thoughts.

The other month I watched the webcast of the Russians versus Damage WC psp final from this year. It was very well done, with the exception of a few instances of "Hey look at that guy," and then there's no cut in the video. But as I watched it dawned on me how utterly boring the match was. I was watching the world pinnacle of competitive paintball, and practically nothing happened. The combination of unlimited paint, effortless non-stop 12 bps from the psp burst mode, the race to only seven points, and the limited match time all contributed to no one taking more than a handful of risks the entire match. There were like two big-ish moves the whole match. And I know Lane himself has commented on this problem as well. Everyone shoots shoots shoots til someone screws up (rather than being gun fought out) and then one guy moves one bunker forward. Game after game.

I personally think limited in-game paint would really loosen the game up. Allocate a maximum number of pods per team per point and fix maximum pod dimensions. At the starting station there could be a rack that teams put all their pods in for the ref to see, then loads them up when its time. If a pod doesn't fit in the rack, it's too big (and your problem and not the ref's.) Leave the psp burst mode in place, or heck lift it since no one is going to be ripping 20bps for long if they only have three pods on them.
As a frontman for a low end tournament team, I noticed the PSP field did not reward aggression. This is one of the many reasons why there was no crazy moves. It was difficult to get to just the 40 without being shot out, and the center bunkers were absolutely useless. Even if the frontman managed to get to the center 50 there was no adjacent bunkers to dive into that were useful. If he decided to stay in the center 50 bunker, he was instantly shot out because it did not provide any cover whatsoever in the beginning of the game.

I guess the frontman needed to be nerfed in case he became too much of a factor in that particular tournament. The only real option for the frontman was the snake. It's stupid when a field reduces the amount of plays available in your playbook.

Last edited by Subterfuge : 07-26-2012 at 10:49 PM.
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Old 07-26-2012, 11:26 PM #59
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I got into airball earlier this year and went to an NPPL tournament a few weeks later. Teams like Dynasty were there which I hear are big teams so I was excited. IT WAS SOOOOOO BORING!!

If you find watching airball fun, it's because you are remembering the feeling of playing while watching. Airball/speed ball is about the most boring sport ever to watch.

You had the break, then everybody just stood at their bunker shooting and yelling. Someone slowly tries to work up the snake now and then. A lucky shot might curve around a bunker and hit someone then there is a little shift and more constant shooting. Fun to play, but boring to watch.

You know how people look off the break running and shooting, the whole game needs to be like that for it to be marketable. A sport grows because people see it being played and they want to play it. Nothing about watching airball makes people want to play. You just see a bunch of guys in baggy clothes crouching behind balloons and shooting.

I know people don't want to hear that, but that's the truth. Airball is impossible to market in it's current form.

You know that drill where two guys run and gun and try to be the first to the 50? That drill is more marketable than the entire game of airball. That tells you something.

My solution:

1) Set amount of paint per round. Around 200 per round. That will keep people from just hiding and shooting lanes.

2) More bunkers. With more bunkers you can move more. With more bunkers you can bounce all around the field causing chaos and chaos means action. I think with this setup guys will constantly need to be shifting their position.

Imagine how much more important tactics and communication would be with guys moving all over the place. At higher level play, allow teams to use radios/headsets to coordinate movement better. Not coaching from the sidelines, just communication between the players.
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Old 07-27-2012, 04:10 AM #60
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Whoever said paintball is too repetitive for the viewer's liking are you kidding me?
Paintball isn't more repetitive than watching a baseball game...
Paintball isn't more repetitive than watching tennis players hit volley after volley...
Paintball isn't more repetitive than watching basketball players dribble back and forth down the court...
Paintball isn't more repetitive than watching NASCAR drivers go around and around the track for hundreds of laps...

All sports have their own degree of repetition.
As far as paintball goes, with the bunker runs off the break, with players snapping around behind bunkers, with players bunkering other players, with players jumping over snakes and other bunkers, I would have to say it's one of the more unique and spontaneous sports.

Paintball is not losing popularity due to it's "lack" of action or because of it's "repetition".
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Old 07-28-2012, 08:33 PM #61
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Economy - lets face it, people don't have the spendable money they used to have....
I hate when people say this. Paintball is expensive, but so are other sports. Paintball, I would say, has about mid-range price. Some players spend, at most, around $3,000 on one single setup, which includes 1 of everything you need (mask, hopper, tank, marker, etc.). Some players buy more marker/equipment because they like too.

Paintball is by no means a super expensive sport.
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Old 07-28-2012, 08:57 PM #62
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$3000 on a setup?

if you're smart, you could stay under a grand and still have very nice, competitive equipment
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Old 07-28-2012, 10:47 PM #63
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$3000 on a setup?

if you're smart, you could stay under a grand and still have very nice, competitive equipment
I said at most. Meaning that's the highest amount of money you'd spend on a single setup.
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