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Old 09-18-2011, 12:13 PM #1
Winger CT
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How are walking tanks taken out w/o rockets?

I am working on building a walking tank, (sort of), for our team. These aren't as commonly used here in the northeast as I think they are elsewhere, so I could use some advice.

Obviously a hit with a rocket would take the Pud out of play, although LAWs aren't that common around ehre, either. Maybe even a miss within X feet if witnessed by a ref? But what other methods are used if the opposing team has no rocket launcher? Are there any standards evolving on this?

I assume a grenade hit would be valid for either a kill or immobility for X minutes. But do people use the approach of a marked area or plate on the Pud that can be filled with paintball hits to kill the tank?

Several years ago, Nodent from RTM came up with a walking tank that had an interesting idea. His illustrated thread produced an good discussion, however it focused largely on motorized tanks, not Puds.
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.p...ht=nodent+tank

So what is a fair, feasible way for groundpounders to kill Puds without LAWs?
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Old 09-19-2011, 12:42 PM #2
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Depends on th field. I've seen fields that require two hits to kill a tank use only one nerf hit to kill a walker. Or kill plates on tank than any hit on a walker. I've heard that a field allows grenades to disable a walker, but no effect on tanks. So generally it's easier to take out a walker. Also since there usually is no limit on how close you can get to a walker, I would guess a player with a AT mine could touch a walker to eliminate it.
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Old 09-19-2011, 10:18 PM #3
Winger CT
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I guess that is the logical approach. A motorized tank is to an M-1 Abrams as a Pud is to a Humvee. A weaker wep should be able to take out a weaker target.

It would be great to come up with a consistent, reasonable way for an opposing team to deal with with a walking tank when there are no LAWS available. I think this might make Puds more welcome at many events. They can add a new twist and excitement, as long as they aren't unstoppable. Events in our area are often in terrain where motorized tanks have very limited access, so a walking tank can add a lot, and might be a more attractive option for many teams.

Or maybe even a walking ___________ .

So I need some ideas for methods or mechanisms to kill a Pud with paintballs. It crossed my mind to do something like Nodent came up with, coupled with a conductive loop on the "paddles". As they are knocked down, a logic circuit can react with an audible alarm that the Pud is damaged or destroyed.
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Old 09-20-2011, 06:45 AM #4
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I'm glad to see someone taking off with the man powered tank idea.

Couple of things to keep in mind.

Paintballers are sneaky and will do whatever it takes to win.
Any part of the design has to be able to withstand LOTS of paint goo and splatter. So if youíre thinking electric gizmos and doodads, remember that have to be able to take the hit and the paint mess.

I agree that knockdown target are the way to go. EVERYONE can see the current condition at any time.

I will be glad to help in anyway.
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Old 09-20-2011, 09:48 PM #5
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Played in a walker for years. Lots of variations possible. Sometimes we had to improvise on the spot if an opposing tank broke down and there were no opposing RPGs.

Tour of Duty Series. One grenade kills. After all it is 'LIGHT' armor if you want it to be. Ditto flame throwers. (garden sprayers, super soakers, and at one game a ketchup bottle of ketchup was allowed as a flame thrower. Ditto satchel charges that can be a Goodwill Purse or a hand thrown Nerf Rocket that had to hit the tank for a kill.

Elsewhere played with ONE grenade that disables for 5 minutes and a second one within 5 minutes is a kill.

At White River, the opposing side had no RPGs and the other tank didn't make the game. So we had to improvise. 2" Duct tape square on all four sides to be hit with paintballs. Hitting ONE square is EASY. So the knock down target won't work well for the tank. Great for the infantry though. They had to break a ball on 3 of the 4 to get a kill. They would get 2 of the three fairly easily and then I could not be the least bit aggressive and had to play defensively protecting two sides. Walking backwards or sideways in a walking tank is difficult. Can turn and fire out the front without exposing that third side.

Then there are ATTACK Helicopters. Extremely efficient at killing any kind of tank. Just a dude with a PVC pipe pole with a propeller on top. a marker and hand thrown nerfs and the tanks only defense is to hit him with a Nerf round out of your cannon. He comes running in like a tight end about to make an open field run and touchdown. You have ONE shot with a Nerf so you have to literally wait until you see the whites of his eyes and take your best and only shot with your cannon.

One of the reasons I built a 6 shot autoloader was attack helicopters and the first time it went up with one I had 6 shots in 6 seconds. Started at about 30 yards and by the time he got to 15 yards he was probably thinking he should be wearing a cup. I got him with the 5th shot and he didn't need a cup after all.

Then IEDs which are basically satchel charges that you hide where the tank might go by. Easy on tank roads but less so if walking tanks can go off the tank roads and roam the field.

Then I have been taken out by artillery strikes called in by the general. Just a 200 foot radius that kills everything inside that.

Well, that covers a few ideas for you.
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Old 09-20-2011, 11:58 PM #6
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At Hells survivors they use helicopters but I think they have a 10 minute limit once they start shooting. They couldn't be eliminated by paintballs and their weren't any heavier weapons. At first people would just shoot the exposed legs of the pilot until he had to sqaut down from the pain. Since then they all wear some type of leg protection. Now they run amuck for the full 10 minute mission.

Last edited by kingofbeer62 : 09-21-2011 at 12:01 AM.
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Old 09-24-2011, 07:58 PM #7
Winger CT
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Thanks for all the input, guys. As I said, many of the fields up our way don't see walking tanks too often, so having suggestions for fair game play will really help the refs factor it into the event.

Certainly a rocket hit will always be a valid kill, but I think the use of grenades makes sense, too, since they are more likely to be available to any opponents. If I get some time, I think I will make a stab at a variation on Nodent's knock down target idea, since that makes the unit killable by paintball fire alone. That is, if they can put enough paint downrange before I nail them. The "handicapping" option to suit various situations is clever, too.
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Old 09-26-2011, 09:31 PM #8
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I forgot to mention the most recent Tour of Duty and Oklahoma D Day rules.

They banned 'home made' bazookas and for all practical purposes, the use of Nerfs way back when there was only one commercial producer of a $1200 bazooka. Things are different now.

Bill Bailey, the Producer of the Tour of Duty and good friend of the OK D Day producer and Axis General experimented with this system in the Tour of Duty and was finally adopted by OK D Day.

They went to a modified marker mocked up to LOOK like a bazooka but shot a special color paint shell and fill color.

The final product was different sized targets on all four sides of the tank that reflect the traditional 'strength' of armor on military vehicles. A small target (2" square" on the front for the thickest armor, 4" square on the sides reflecting side armor but vunerable tracks and a BIG 8" target on the back reflecting the 'softest' armor on a tank.

To start with they just used a regular marker with the special paint fill. The tanks complained they could not SEE that they were engaged by an anti tank player vs a regular paintball player. Hence the reason for the mocked up marker.

Now even a 2 " target can be hit from 20 yards away with enough paint. Bazookas are not semi automatic much less 14 bps semis or full autos.

To make the whole system work the ammo for anti tank paint was VERY LIMITED. It varied by the size of the game and the amount of whining by the tankers vs the amount of whining by the infantry about the invunerability of the tanks... But for a 300 player game with 2-3 tanks per side, each general would be given 500 rounds for the ENTIRE WEEKEND. Tanks would be issued 100 rounds for their anti tank "cannon"

Anti Tankers were awarded 50 points per tank kill and had to obtain a sticker from the tank driver that had to be handed back to the General to claim the points at the end of the game. Each anti tanker was given 10 rounds. If you came back empty handed and asked for MORE anti tank paint, you would be lucky if you got 5 rounds of anti tank paint. You would be told to bring back a sticker if you wanted any more paint. Otherwise, if you were using a field bazooka, it would be issued to another player that is a better tactician and shot.

Now you have another way to kill tanks with markers.
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Old 09-27-2011, 09:29 AM #9
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I played with my walking tanks in a couple walkon games and what seemed to work was start the tank as neutral in the middle and give each side a couple rockets to hand throw. Whoever hits the tank gets the tank for a couple minutes. Each time the tank is hit it switches sides.

Winger CT, if you have this done soon come down to Jersey Devil at On Target in Pemberton, NJ on Sat Oct 29 and Dark Ops Extreme at Cousins in Manchester, NJ on Sun Nov 20. There will be some combination of walking tanks, motorized tanks, and robots and we are looking for more.
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Old 09-28-2011, 09:53 PM #10
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Interesting approach for casual play, Shep. Did you use a flag or something to indicate the current side? If I can get my mallards aligned, 11/20 is a possibility. Thanks for the invite!

Boom, thanks for the great info, as usual. I can definately see how the different paint/designated shooter approach has some advantages at large events. Wish we had more of them in our neck o the woods...

It would be great to start to develop a national standard on all this. I love standards: there are so many of them!
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Old 09-29-2011, 10:31 AM #11
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I carry flags to indicate which side I am on or if I am out. Although at scenarios an occasional anti-tanker on my side will get all excited about getting a tank kill and try to take me out. This tends to happen when I have busted through the front lines and my infantry hasn't thought to move up behind me.
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Old 09-29-2011, 08:26 PM #12
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Yes, capturing a walking tank is much more feasible than capturing a motorized which requires violating the 20 foot rule unless it is immobilized under the rules of a very FEW games. No safety issue approaching a walking tank. Even with the 20 foot rules at the Tour of Duty, it was routinely ignored by players and referees in killing my walking tank. Grenades often do not go off when you want them too. Misses were frequent so at $5 a grenade, I was eliminated with more than a few 'grenade showers'. They would run up behind me and just Squirt me with the Grenade and never actually throw it.

Seems if you have the balls to run up to a walking tank and just touch it, you should be able to capture it. Would make for an interesting game. The tank would be foolish to run deep into enemy territory without infantry support or bash into the enemy firing line or defense perimeter. He would just be captured.

If you do capture a tank, most likely it would have to go to the other sides insertion point before re entering the game BUT it could really get WEIRD quick if the tank would just throw up the other teams flag, turn and fire on the other side he was on 30 seconds ago.

Just in rec ball, we have played "Cyborg". Just a player in a well padded jumpsuit. They Cyborg could not be killed with a paintball. Blinded enough to not be able to see to walk but not killed.

You could play capture the flag, elimination, whatever game on the rec field but with the Cyborg in play.

It started neutral mid field with the gun pointed up. The Cyborg was standing there because it was damaged. No radio com with HQ. It could only walk slowly - like a cyborg. It had to be re-programmed manually by putting your hand on its shoulder and voice command it. The voice command would work for 3 minutes, then it would go neutral again unless reprogrammed with another command.

The voice processor was damaged too. It would not execute any command following the word "and".

Thus if you said, "Go shoot everyone in that bunker AND come back here. It would to shoot everyone in that bunker and remain there until the 3 minutes was up or reprogrammed. If your team runs in to occupy the bunker, it will shoot them to. You said, "everyone in that bunker". You should have said, " Go shoot all Red Team in that bunker THEN come back here.

In the excitement of play, players say the dumbest things to program the Cyborg. "Shoot everyone" was my favorite. Started with the guy that said it...

It takes several games for players to start to THINK about how and what to say to program the Cyborg to use it effectively as a tactical tool. It took forever for someone to figure out, "Bring the enemy flag to me". The other teams only choice is to re-program the cyborg and capture it. All you need to do is keep opposing players away from the cyborg...

It is fun and great training for scenario players to THINK, create, recognize, adapt, and improvise on the fly...

And it teaches the MOST Important lesson to aspiring scenario players,

"Real Scenario Players run TOWARDS the tanks" ...........

if your squad has a bazooka..
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