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Old 08-14-2011, 11:40 AM #43
情けない
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Originally Posted by EpShot View Post
I've dealt with year of conservatives claiming that liberals really do want to just spend many, and its simply not true.
Can you point me towards the fiscal hawk liberals, cuz I don't think I've ever seen one.

And no, talking about "closing loopholes and eliminating waste, fraud, and abuse" repeatedly doesn't count as being a fiscal hawk.
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Old 08-14-2011, 12:07 PM #44
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Originally Posted by 情けない

Can you point me towards the fiscal hawk liberals, cuz I don't think I've ever seen one.

And no, talking about "closing loopholes and eliminating waste, fraud, and abuse" repeatedly doesn't count as being a fiscal hawk.
My political stance is fiscally conservative and socially progressive.
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Old 08-14-2011, 02:00 PM #45
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My political stance is fiscally conservative and socially progressive.
Define "fiscally conservative". What would you do to balance the budget? What areas can government be reduced to save money?
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Old 08-14-2011, 02:52 PM #46
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FYI: the market doesn't give a ****ing **** about our deficit/debt level. In fact they're ****ing begging the U.S. to take their money.

We don't need to do anything about the deficit in the short or even the medium term. It's a long run problem thats being used as a political tool and is distracting us all from the REAL issue which is our deeply depressed economy.
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Old 08-14-2011, 03:09 PM #47
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i wouldn't say the debt is a non-issue

but dealing with it has become needlessly political, sure
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Old 08-14-2011, 03:23 PM #48
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Well its a long run problem. If we added another 5 trillion to it tomorrow it wouldnt effect our long run solvency at all.
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Old 08-14-2011, 03:42 PM #49
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Well its a long run problem. If we added another 5 trillion to it tomorrow it wouldnt effect our long run solvency at all.
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Old 08-14-2011, 03:43 PM #50
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Old 08-14-2011, 03:57 PM #51
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I'm a little skeptical that an additional 5 trillion dollars in debt would do nothing to faith in american credit
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Old 08-14-2011, 04:08 PM #52
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well lets do the math

current 30 year interest rates are 1.03%

so 1.03% of 5 trillion is 51.5 billion

the CBO estimates that by 2020 our potential RGDP will be about 18 trillion (so im being generous here)

so 51.5 billion come to like .2% of GDP
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Old 08-14-2011, 04:10 PM #53
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ok if you say so
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Old 08-14-2011, 04:17 PM #54
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ok if you say so
He has a point. It's always been pretty standard to raise the debt ceiling over and over again. In fact, other countries (that even have a debt ceiling) have placed it so high that they never have to go through what we do.
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Old 08-14-2011, 04:26 PM #55
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yeah I actually meant "ok if you say so" in a literal sense, was conceding the point and didnt mean to sound like a dick even though in retrospect it sorta looks like that
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Old 08-14-2011, 05:33 PM #56
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Originally Posted by licence_to_kill View Post
well lets do the math

current 30 year interest rates are 1.03%

so 1.03% of 5 trillion is 51.5 billion

the CBO estimates that by 2020 our potential RGDP will be about 18 trillion (so im being generous here)

so 51.5 billion come to like .2% of GDP
So given the track record of the administrations projections we should take this as truth why?
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Old 08-14-2011, 05:39 PM #57
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Because its been accurate in the past and has followed the same long run trend since we started keeping track of it

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?s[1][id]=GDPPOT
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Old 08-14-2011, 05:41 PM #58
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well yeah in theory

but assuming draconian cuts are impractical

and, like, reducing the debt at the expense of having a government is probs not the sharpest idea the libertarians in congress have ever come up with
Ron Paul called for eliminating the government? Or are you still a troll who rarely ventures out of ST:Music?

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tell you what, find me the liberal comparative for cutting spending. I'll check it out in the morning.
I don't need to. It's easy to understand your elementary mistakes. Rhetoric regarding fiscal conservatism is quite popular in the GOP's constituency, whereas ANY politician who would claim to only want to spend would quickly fail in the political arena.

You're creating this caricature of Republican (not conservative) politicians as rhetoricians who claim they will simply cut all spending without spending at all, and I know that's nothing more than what it is, a caricature. No politician in the history of American politics (to my knowledge) has ever garnered political support by promising to never spend and only cut.

Plenty of liberal (not necessarily democrats) economists, politicians, and historians are calling for more spending, increasing the deficit because it couldn't possibly produce negative effects that we would experience, etc. And no, it isn't really a reach to call that a spend spend spend policy, even if it only exists given the current context.
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Old 08-14-2011, 05:43 PM #59
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Because its been accurate in the past and has followed the same long run trend since we started keeping track of it

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?s[1][id]=GDPPOT
Projecting GDP/NGDP/RGDP is a lot easier than projecting the effects of an overnight $5 trillion increase in the deficit.

Also, I still must ask why you continue to be ambiguous about what kind of stimulus we should employ to re-inflate the depressed economy? All the evidence points to monetary stimulus, whereas only the wails of Krugman and Delong call for continued fiscal stimulus.
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Old 08-14-2011, 05:47 PM #60
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Why are you changing the subject? We're talking about the ability for the U.S. to finance spending.
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Old 08-14-2011, 05:51 PM #61
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Why are you changing the subject? We're talking about the ability for the U.S. to finance spending.
Theoretical vs. reality. Not changing the subject, just wondering why you keep clamoring on that we can add trillions to the deficit overnight without problems. We don't even need to in order to end the depression, which you seem to ignore.
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Old 08-14-2011, 05:52 PM #62
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why you keep clamoring on that we can add trillions to the deficit overnight without problems.
Because we can. I've just shown why too. Is my math wrong? You're arguing whether or not we should add to the deficit and not whether we have the ability to finance it, which we clearly do.
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Old 08-14-2011, 05:54 PM #63
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Because we can. I've just shown why too. Is my math wrong? You're arguing whether or not we should and not whether or not we have the ability to finance it, which we clearly do.
When's the last time we added 5 trillion overnight?

And really, you're going to argue something just because of an ability to do so? Your posts here literally have nothing of substance then. It's just ridiculous contrarianism.
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