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Old 08-02-2011, 02:05 PM #1
Matt.is.back2011
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The Cost of Higher Education and its connections to Gov't

today while listening to some conservative talk radio, I was informed (and later factchecked) that part of the debt deal that will hopefully reduce yearly deficits will in part be funded through graduate student loans. In short, the subsidy that allows for deferred interest payment on the principle of a loan will be taken away, thus forcing graduate students to begin paying off loans while still in school.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...raduates_n.htm

I have mixed and very strong feelings towards this issue, and would like this to be an open forum to discuss the topic. (since many of you, like me, are recent college graduates and/or young adults with first-hand experience in this area).

Predictably, the conservative radio host quickly turned the subject away from the issue of government subsidies for education (IMO a good thing the Gov't does well) and towards liberal bashing, citing two things that I'd like to pose to you all:

1. Government intervention in schooling is responsible for the large gap between inflaton and rising tuition costs; if gov't were to turn over student loans to the private sector, costs would decrease and more people would be allowed to enter college

2. Liberals (IE Gov't) want to be in control of the distribution of the best loans (Pell Grants and subsidized loans) because college is a breeding ground for the liberalization of America


So what do you think? What is your opinion on the rising cost of higher education? What do you think causes it? What role does government have in higher education, if any? Why are conservatives seemingly so anti-higher education?

I have my opinions on the matter, but I'd like to hear yours.


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Old 08-02-2011, 02:26 PM #2
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Problem is if you make it easier to pay for school, then schools can easily charge more - not just for tuition but for books, etc.
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Old 08-02-2011, 02:33 PM #3
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Conservatives are against education quality in general because frankly it takes an uninformed, uncritical person to vote against their interests consistently. Emphasis on testing and rigid metrics encourages "teaching to the test" i.e. parroting information without critical thinking, which is exactly what conservatism requires to succeed.
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Old 08-02-2011, 03:06 PM #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swerve22 View Post
Problem is if you make it easier to pay for school, then schools can easily charge more - not just for tuition but for books, etc.

Pretty much.


Same textbook on Ebay is like $80 less at least for me most of the time.
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Old 08-02-2011, 03:15 PM #5
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I look at government in the higher education institutions the same way I look at government in the arts. Shouldn't be there.

Why no government in the arts? Government sponsored arts can easily become censorship. Also, if the art was good, they wouldn't need government to pay for it.

Conservatives are not anti-education. They are pro-"teach you how to think" and anti-"teach you what to think". Which one do you think is more prevalent in the higher education institutions as of late?

Side note - where the hell did the Liberal Arts degree go, and what is this General Education crap degree that replaced it?
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Last edited by barrel roll : 08-02-2011 at 03:17 PM.
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Old 08-02-2011, 03:18 PM #6
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Government sponsored arts can easily become censorship.
This is just silly, at least the government might have watchdogs or regulations to call them out on censorship. Privately funded art can be (and is) censored with impunity.
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Old 08-02-2011, 03:55 PM #7
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This is just silly, at least the government might have watchdogs or regulations to call them out on censorship. Privately funded art can be (and is) censored with impunity.
Please explain what you mean, cause I'm not following you.
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Old 08-02-2011, 04:16 PM #8
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Please explain what you mean, cause I'm not following you.
Not sure what's so difficult about it, private funding means art can be directly censored and there would be no recourse. Federal free speech rights do not apply to private property or private funding.
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Old 08-02-2011, 04:42 PM #9
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Originally Posted by drgonzo View Post
Conservatives are against education quality in general because frankly it takes an uninformed, uncritical person to vote against their interests consistently. Emphasis on testing and rigid metrics encourages "teaching to the test" i.e. parroting information without critical thinking, which is exactly what conservatism requires to succeed.
Oh goodness...
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Old 08-02-2011, 05:19 PM #10
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Seriously Gonzo?
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Old 08-02-2011, 06:16 PM #11
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This is just silly, at least the government might have watchdogs or regulations to call them out on censorship. Privately funded art can be (and is) censored with impunity.
Nothing to say another entity can't display what one "censors". Invalid argument.
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Old 08-02-2011, 06:42 PM #12
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Nothing to say another entity can't display what one "censors". Invalid argument.
You just made a nonsense statement.
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Old 08-02-2011, 07:16 PM #13
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Why can't free speech guaranteed by the federal government be corrupted? You make claims with no substance.
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Old 08-02-2011, 07:50 PM #14
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The federal government should not be in the business of loaning students money.
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Old 08-02-2011, 08:40 PM #15
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Why can't free speech guaranteed by the federal government be corrupted?
Is this directed at me?
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Old 08-02-2011, 08:43 PM #16
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIcfM...mbedded#at=458
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Old 08-02-2011, 10:48 PM #17
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Is this directed at me?
Only you would claim that liberal government is uncorrupted, so yes.
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Old 08-03-2011, 01:43 AM #18
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Only you would claim that liberal government is uncorrupted, so yes.
What in the world are you talking about? Following up a nonsequtur with nonsense.

You can tell when the ideology prevents rational thinking when one fails to exercise even simple logic in order to make an ideological attack.

One last time, for those who seem to be missing it. If the government funds and/or displays arts and censors, there is potential recourse given the constitutional right to free speech and various government oversight. If the arts are funded/displayed privately, censorship is the private entity's legal prerogative and there is no recourse.

If you care about censorship, only government involvement in the arts gives you any protection against it.
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Old 08-03-2011, 01:48 AM #19
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Okay. Well, that's just silly. Our government currently censors things, so that really goes out the window. You're mistaking the right to censor what you own/control with the recognized right to free speech. Those are completely different.

Also, what part of my ideology prevents me from seeing clearly? You're the one who claimed conservatism couldn't possibly be supported by rational, logical people...
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Old 08-03-2011, 01:52 AM #20
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What in the world are you talking about? Following up a nonsequtur with nonsense.

You can tell when the ideology prevents rational thinking when one fails to exercise even simple logic in order to make an ideological attack.

One last time, for those who seem to be missing it. If the government funds and/or displays arts and censors, there is potential recourse given the constitutional right to free speech and various government oversight. If the arts are funded/displayed privately, censorship is the private entity's legal prerogative and there is no recourse.

If you care about censorship, only government involvement in the arts gives you any protection against it.
So the government oversees itself? Am I the only one that doesn't exactly get the warm fuzzies from that?
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Old 08-03-2011, 01:53 AM #21
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