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Old 08-07-2011, 04:22 AM #1
YeloSno
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Hierarchy Of Buying Paintball Stuff v2.0 (Looking to Get Into Paintball?)

Hey, I've decided to expand this thread with pics and some more information. Last thread I couldn't do that, so here goes. Sticky if you like. If you have a recommendation, kindly post it please.

Here's the best advice I can give about purchasing gear. the gun is highly preferential. I love older guns for their performance, style and value.

Buy as much as you can used, though be skeptical with masks. Make sure they're very clean, foam is 100% in tact, and there aren't missing pieces.
With Clothing, avoid clothes with tears and stains if you can, make sure to wash them right when you get them out of the box, try avoiding using bleach.


1st things first, here's my recommended and proven hierarchy of purchases.
  1. BY FAR the most important item, the protective equipment. Purchase the best you can (doesn't mean most expensive. branding is a big part of price differential), don't skimp on protection! A shot to the eye because your mask is uncomfortable or foggy is the worst way to end your time playing paintball permanently. Likewise, falling on something that will wreck your knees is a great way to make the rest of your life a lot more annoying as well.


  2. Look into these masks:
    Dye i3 (Still have lens replacements out. Massive area of protection, quite breathable and nice in general, just looked down on for its fugliness)
    Dye i4 (super low profile, low protection and an echo chamber for sound, but I can't deny their good looks. Also, the styling or features haven't changed since they hit the market, so you can snag a clean old one for maybe $40?)
    SLY Profit [gets harder to breathe in hot weather, but they look good and are definitely incredibly safe and snug with or without a headband (suggested as the velvet-lined foam can be abrasive when sweaty.)]
    Empire E-Flex It has the awesomefully easy to change and maintain lenses and gaskets from the Event lineup paired with the most breathable, lightweight and breakproof mask bottoms on the planet. Of course I will advocate these like no other. They are, however, much narrower than proflexes and stick out much farther from the face. After extended use, that distance from the face and therefor some of the blockage of sight really killed the eflex for me, but I still think it's functionally the better brother over the proflex. Just for use and experience, the Proflex satisfies more of my vital criteria and that's the only reason I could still suggest the Proflex over every other mask in the world.
    JT Proflex (also have one, best mask ever in my opinion. light, high flowing comfortable, versatile, inexpensive) do not get the Proflex/Proshield confused with ANY other of the JT masks... All of the non-spectra-style masks are atrocious.
    Vforce Grills and Profilers are a phenomenal choice, too, but the Single Pane Lenses will fog up in colder climates. VForce now uses Dual pane lenses, so the masks are now all-weather and WELL worth the price.
    Empire E-Vents these are definitely classy and clean masks with a very low profile design that still fully protects, but breathability is on the poor side.


  3. Hoppers. Pretty dang important. I've went through only TWO main hoppers through my entire life as a paintballer (long time).

    The ones I'd advise looking into are:
    Invert Too With the $8 Empire Freeway and the $13 Magna Clutch Drive, this loader is the most cost effective ball feeding player killers on the market.
    Pinokio Loaders very consistent feeding, can feed fast, can feed .50cal paint apparently, very battery efficient, very durable. Looks awk, but CHEAP.
    Empire Prophecy Z2 not the best, but very cost effective and low profile.
    Dye Rotor used, new ones aren't really worth it since a rotor is really REALLY hard to ruin, try to run on energizer Ultimate Lithiums for best and longest performance
    Hard Corps Torque 440 Loudmouth the original non-440 loudmouths are kinda... weak...
    Vlocity Jr./Sr. Most can be found at prices under $40 if you look for the right deal. They're tall and bulky, but get the job done inexpensively and run great with virtue.
    Virtue Spire With the functioning parts of a mid-end washing machine, the spire is actually really good. Lightest, lowest profile and highest capacity (as of june 2013):size ratio of any loader on the market. Every bit as reliable as the DYE Rotor.
    [b] Even newer than the Spire is the VMax2 at $100, making it mega affordable and the first cheap "highend" that didn't require a degree in perfection to reassemble *coughprophecycough*. I don't know if these are good or not as the VMax 1 was kind of a glorified revvy in quasi-rotor drab.

    If you're short on cash and a beginner, look into the JT/Empire ReVLution/Revvy (Or the Invert Reloader, same thing, new style) hoppers. phenomenal, reliable, consistent and cheap at ~$25


  4. Now that that's dealt with, look into a tank. Try to buy new if you can, if not, get a tank born within 3 years of current date or newer but is used. Best brands out there:
    Guerrilla - 1 of 2 for the budget "alloy tank/3000psi systems" The current models come with great, consistent and highly adjustable low-profile regulators. Known for broken regulator pistons which can **** down your gun, but they've also changed a lot since Tiberius bought them.
    Crossfire - the most durable and reliable of the bunch. I keep the regulator from my 2007 tank because the stainless steel regulators crossfire used to have were UNGODLY consistent and tough as ****. They're still pretty damn good and come with lots of colors and options.
    Ninja - pretty decent. Seems like the go-to, but I'm not a big fan of them. Their bonnets are ****, so be sure to have a spare at all times. Regulators are very adjustable and are the 2 of 2 for the current best 3000psi system manufacturers. Their 3000psi tanks are great. Period. Buy new? Buy either a ninja or a guerrilla.
    CP (pricey, but super consistent and durable and reliable with a built in extension and with solid flow for any age marker... and cool)
    NEW! Immortal Air This isn't really new, but the company is run and taken care of by a legend in the industry who was head of Air America. His stuff is top notch - Dan Colby ftw.


  5. Pod pack and pods, also very important. Do not be afraid to spend a bit extra. I've used one pod pack for the past 5 years. A crappy one won't even last you 2 months.

    Great Brands:
    Empire (react, love em, has lasted me longest of all)
    Bunker King High quality, but comes at a price.
    Critical Pricey for its uniqueness, but they are really, really good end all packs.
    Redz or Hybrid best if on a majorly low budget, but Hybrid makes tons of gorgeous sought after stuff
    Planet Eclipse pricey NXe, basically
    Dye also super pricey, but comfy and durable and efficiently designed
    SLY can be hotter than most, but unbelievably durable design
    Critical Paintball pretty awesome and unique, to say the least. Has a break in period and a really good and ergonomic design element
    Valken Flashy or no, they're great packs. Period.
    LYSK well... apart from the price they're awesome, but much heavier than all others. Due to magnets, they last longer as well)
    G.I. Sports Aside from being zazzerful as is HK Army, they are stepping up with their product line and apparently it's showing well. I can't comment on these, though.
    And finally, NXe - super famous for their quality and inexpensive products, they are now run by Tippmann, but it's still the same shtick...


again, what I provide are the more trusted brands out there and the ones that I've had great experience with.


NOTE IN 2 PARTS:

1. Pads are absolutely vital. Anyone who's done/does an extreme sport or activity will attest to this. Invest in workman's/volleyball/paintball pads as soon as possible! Buying older and/or used is always prime as pad technology and styling hasn't really gone far since 2009. I mean, it has, but not enough to make that stuff obsolete by a far shot. When buying kneepads, I'd suggest buying full length knee/shins. They don't slide around like the plain knee pads do. I know it's like 15-30% more expensive, but I honestly think it's worth having a little more covered up for the extra grip/comfort/defense. This is also a great luxury as now you can crawl, climb, and make hard stops WAY faster and more often, which countless times is what makes it or breaks it as far as staying in/out of the game.
PLEASE DO NOT COMPROMISE YOUR SAFETY. GOOD PADS ARE ACTUALLY REALLY COMFORTABLE!


If you happen to find anyone else who would like to provide info on anything from LPRs for cockers and Matrices to Turtle hats and the Axe, let me know: floopjuice@gmail.com (lol if you may)

Here's a maintenance and general lubing thread for anyone who has a wonky gun or wants to know why you need to use lube and on what for: http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3782126

Want to know what a Poppet marker is about? Maybe a cocker as well (also poppet)? Check this out: http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3718279


FINAL PRECAUTION: When buying used as a beginner, PLEASE, PLEASE Purchase from a REPUTABLE member! If there's a problem with that and you want something that ONLY someone with a feedback which is worse than 30/0/0, use a quality THIRD PARTY source. Typically anyone with feedback that is greater than 200/0/0 or is an admin/moderator can be used as a fair and reliable third party. Usually for an extra few dollars, you can have the third party test out the gun and validate its condition before it lands in you hands so you know you're getting something that works as the seller stated.
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Old 08-07-2011, 04:22 AM #2
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Now you're ready for a gun. buy used, saves you loads of money and you get super high performing markers (what we call guns) for the same price as a new low or mid-grade marker.

There are 2 main categories of the higher end markers.




1: Spool valve (Dye, Proto, Smart parts markers excluding the impulse and nerve, Dangerous Power excluding fusion, and Hostile Creations) these are markers where all the functioning and moving parts are concealed inside the marker. They're smoother, quieter, and the more efficient ones cost more unless you're going to be upgrading them. These are generally higher maintenance, but are also lighter and most often have a lower profile than a poppet (excluding certain Inline-Poppets like the Mini or gen2 Marq). Spool valves are naturally an inline system where the valve is behind the bolt in a "sleeve". Spool valve markers typically require synthetic or Dow33 based Grease and must be cleaned and relube after every case of paint or two to maintain its internals. ALSO: Dump valves like the Dangerous Power "G" Series and the Planet Eclipse Geo Series are basically dumbed down spool valves. They tend to be far more air inefficient, but are simpler to build and maintain for that matter. They are also far more durable to stupidity.

Examples of spool valves:




Smart Parts Ion







Smart Parts Shocker HE bolt







Pre-2k7 Dye Matrix Bolt System







First Endeavor Paintball (FEP) Quest (2007)







Dye Matrix








MacDev Droid







Eclipse SL91 (on the left. It was designed to be the SL91, but was cancelled, then later turned out to be the Eclipse Geo2, which is still the simple dump valve that the Geo was, but with a sprung propshaft, or guide, and a much higher quality bolt system)
The SL94 is a Stacked tube poppet valve (shown to the right)




2: Poppet valve (Egos, Intimidators, Marqs, Invert Mini/Empire Axe, Alien remains, Independence, Dangerous power Fusion series, Mokal Aura, etc.) (Bob Long makes inline poppet valves, which also have concealed bodies, they are called the Marq Series). These markers are typically louder although more consistent (tighter shot grouping) as well as efficient (more shots per fill of an air tank) stock. They are much lower maintenance, but still need to be lubricated and have more parts to take care of as the system is naturally mechanically assisted. Poppet Valve markers usually tend to have more "recoil" or kick, and have far more parts inside than a spool, ie; Springs, valve stems, cup seals, Rams, and bumpers, etc. ALTHOUGH poppets are still incredibly durable when maintained properly and not thrown into a tree, ocean or volcano, with lack of proper maintenance, they will fall apart on you. Poppets also tend to have a lower resale value than spools for the most part, so if you want a quality gun for less, best bet is getting a poppet. (EXAMPLE ONLY) An ego7 (2007) runs for about $275- $300 when a dm7 runs for about $280-$320.


How a typical poppet works.

LPR (Low Pressure, or Horizontal Regulator): Supplies air to solenoid and Ram (the thing that moves the bolt). The lighter the ram, the higher your pressure will tend to be (to a certain point) when dropping it in. As the spring breaks in, you can lower the LPR. All markers (exc. cockers) have LPRs which typically should be kept below 100psi. A consistent LPR helps with preventing paint from being chopped and your marker from shooting inconsistently.

HPR (high pressure, or Vertical regulator): This supplies are to the valve which then escapes through the bolt and behind the paintball. These are vital for a consistent shooting paintball marker.

Ram: the metal stick with bumpers that uses air and/or springs to move the bolt (that's attached from above) forwards and backwards, thus cycling the paintmarker. The ram is also used to strike the valve open, letting air in through the bolt and behind the ball.

The valve: Sometimes a Balance valve (pressure controlled poppet) or a poppet valve (a valve with a seal held in place and reinforced by a spring.), this is in front of the ram and routes air from the high pressure reg to the bolt and ball.

NOTE: Tippmanns are also poppet valves, they go under the "inline poppet" category, where the bolt is in front of the poppet valve instead of on top of it, and in this case, the Tippmann markers (except the X7 Phenom) use a power tube and hammer instead of a ram-poppet system, which is like a more durable and more simple version of a ram.

Examples of Poppet Valve Markers:



Bob Long Marqs, Edge and Darq







Atomix Abomb Generation 3 (Bob Long) Intimidator







Infinity Legend






WDP Angel Gothic A1 Fly







Debounce1's Liquid X mill ICD bushmaster

[img][/img]




Immortal Viking with Ultralite frame








Autococker Valve System (Stacked Tube, Closed Bolt)







Eclipse Ego System







Invert Mini (Pressure Controlled inline Poppet)




3: Pump Markers (Snipers--cockers converted to pumps, Phantoms, Metadyne Pump, Sanchez Machine SM-1, Palmer's Nasty, Punisher's Phantom, Nelspot 007, PGP markers, STP markers, ACI Maverick, both Trracers, TigerShark and so on...) Sniper pumps are essentially a manual operated poppet valve in its purest definition. They replace the cocker's pneumatics (ram, Low Pressure Regulator, and 3-way or Solenoid) in the case of a cocker and put a Pump handle in place of that which attached to the pump arm, pushes the back block backwards in order to cock the marker for each shot. All pump markers work this way, except the way they are designed to perform that action are slightly different. With Phantoms, Punisher's markers, Palmer's pumps, and markers of the like function by the Pump motion pushing back the bolt, which allows air through a valve, which is stored behind the bolt when it is pushed forward into firing position. When you pull the trigger, it trips a sear, which then opens the valve and releases the air through the bolt and out the barrel behind the ball.

Single tube (body) pumps are "Nelson Style" and Stacked Tube (1 over the other, like many shotguns) pump are considered "Sheridan Style".

Pump is far more economical, the markers will also last MUCH longer than spools OR mechanical/electronic poppet valve markers. The maintenance on these are almost zero, this style of play will lead you to be more accurate as well whenever you switch over to a semi/full auto marker. Why play pump? Well, it's damn fun and is full of soul





Chipley Machine (CCM) S6






How a sheridan style pump works (PGP as an example)







Warped Sportz 2001 Dark (VF) Cocker that was mini'd and converted to a Sniper




ALSO: Cockers are poppets as well, but different kinds of poppets. They are still a stacked tube poppet like the ego, but they have a closed bolt operation (bolt is all the way forward, sealing the ball into the barrel of the marker, when it fires, it shoots, cocks the gun, then seals off and shoots). This makes it more susceptible to rollouts so a smaller bore barrel is necessary if you want the paint to fly at your opponents and not a couple inches in front of you. Cockers have the cocking solenoid on the OUTSIDE of the marker, on the front block. The front block ALSO holds the Ram and LPR in place as well. Cockers can be incredibly consistent and efficient markers, but take a bit more time and energy maintaining and tuning them. They can be quiet and smooth like a Spool valve, yet have the efficiency and durability of a poppet.
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Old 08-07-2011, 04:35 AM #3
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Extension of post 1

Brands to trust in general.

Empire/KEE/JT, Planet Eclipse, the rest listed above for other items aaaaand....

MacDev The wizards from down under. Their stuff isn't the cheapest, but they generally make end-all products.
Sanchez Machine The look may be simple, but the functionality is prime. Used, they're well priced too.
Lurker Paintball, BOSS Products (for their Axe stuff), Thin Air Sports, Nummech and Inception Designs These 2 companies have more ingenuity, science and love in their products than any other right now. Whatever they make, they make the best of. No. Seriously.





Extension of post 1





Don't forget, just because a marker is "old" or the manufacturer is out of business does not mean the guns suck AT ALL. For each brand, there are thousands of dedicated followers and machinists that continue to provide parts and services for those markers!

Great Value for Pumps under $300:
  • Empire and PMI Trracer, ACI Maverick, WGP Ranger, Kingman Hammer, and basically all bargain nelson style (single tube bodied) guns.
  • Azodin Kaos Pump (gen2 if possible, price difference is negligible)
  • Phantoms (if you're into that stuff... They're actually phantastic platforms, just a love or hate style, though )
  • Snipers ((cocker pumps, just be careful. The quality of the pump is HIGHLY dependent on the lower tube setup which houses the valve, IVG (internal velocity governor) and springs. With a Pump, you want a heavy hammer, soft to medium-soft springs, and high quality valve like a Check-It valve, AKA Tornado Valve (best mechanical valve there is), or valves like the Maddman Rocket Valve and CCM Valve, and so on.))


Great Value for Poppet Valve Markers under $500:
  • Many Cockers
  • ALL Empire/Invert Inline Poppets (Axe/Mini)
  • Infinity Legend (Best bang for your buck, come around $180 Used, madly efficient, smooth, consistent and almost virtually indestructible)
  • Hybrid Marq Mummy (cannot be supercharged unfortunately, but Lurkerpaintball has a Turbo Spring upgrade which does wonders for efficiency.)
  • ALL GENERATION 1 MARQS (Bob Long Marq 6, 7, rapper, closer, closer EXP, Darq, edge, etc) (prices vary, but internals are exactly the same on just about ALL of the models, these are VERY low maintenance, but when maintenance is necessary, be sure to be very meticulous and use a DOW55 based grease IS A MUST!)
  • Bob Long Generation 3 Intimidators (2k5) (make sure you have dow55 if you ever get new Orings on anything)
  • Bob Long Protege and Vice (gen5) (dow55 rule applies)
  • 2009 Alien Independence and newer (also known as Alien Indy/ND)
  • Smart Parts Impulse
  • Alien Invasion
  • ICD Promaster (Upgrade city!)
  • WDP/APS Angel 06 Speed and variants.
  • Angel A1 Fly, SE and SB
  • Angel G7 Fly and variants
  • MacDev Cyborg RX
  • MacDev Cyborg (I mean they're all awesome, just some may be more... epic... than others)
  • Vanguard Creed (V2/AR-V, same ****)
  • Valken Proton
  • ALL Dangerous Power Poppets (Fusion series, etc)
  • Keep to note this list will expand as time goes on and more and more guns' values in the market drop as new tech that's kind of pointless comes out. Same for the spools and pumps.


Great Value for Spool Valve Markers under $500:
  • Dye DM5-DM11. (DM6 is capable of being one of the best performing/lightest/most compact with certain applicable parts. DM11 will be the most ergonomic and up to date...and can pretty much be made the great performer an M6 can be...)
  • Proto PM8
  • Proto markers from 2011 and Newer.
  • Vanguard Demon
  • Smart Parts Shocker SFT and/or NXT (no performance or compatibility changes except longer frame and body, BB eyes and t6 aluminum body) (This includes all special private label shockers like Octane NXT/SFT, Hybrid Traitor/Hybucci Traitor NXT/SFT, Strange SFT, Toxic SFT, etc) (Best bang for buck)
  • Smart Parts Ion (Yes, Ion)
  • GoG eXCTy/eNVy (basically a really, really nice stock Smart Parts Ion/Vibe. These do WONDERS with a DeadlyWind Hollow Point u3 or NewDesignz Skeleton Bolt System and a Clippard QEV)
  • ICD Freestyles (7 and up - highly suggest you be a fan of tinkering and have the determination to do a job right)
  • MacDev Droid
  • Macdev Drone and Drone DX
  • MacDev Clone (So far, the V1, the V2, VX and one day... the GT will most definitely be put on the list)

in the end, it's all personal opinion. I love most PL milled enclosed spools and poppets as well as cockers and PL gen1 marqs. I also despise Eclipse products after 2004 and the SL line after the XSV SL66.

hope I helped

here's a random suggestion...

used 2009 Empire React Pack (~$15-25), NICE USED Proflex (~$50), used name brand 68/45 (always buy a 4,500psi tank if you can afford it) ($80-100), Invert Mini with a BOSS products XSV or Infamous bolt ($160-$200 + $30).

I prefer smart parts markers or a cocker for a beginner marker, there's a million ways you can customize them to make them work to your satisfaction, and if you can master maintaining and using one of these, you pretty much know... well... a LOT about paintball as far as the mechanics of stuff goes.

When buying markers (last step) buying used is the best way you can go. You can pick up a high end, $1000+ msrp'd marker that's just a couple years old for the price of a BRAND NEW mid-range or even low-end marker! They're always lighter, smoother, and more efficient and consistent compared to the low end or mid end marker and can most likely outlast them in your gearbag and in general.

One more thing: I am NOT saying that the newer low end markers are terrible, by all means the New Spyder Electra ($145) can perform almost on par (will reliably shoot 12.5-15bps) with an older DM or Ego, it's just heavier, less efficient, louder, less ergonomic and less consistent before any modifications are done to it. Of course, all of this can be upgraded to make it a beast of marker in time, but as far as the greatest bang for your buck for a stock marker goes... Look into older High End markers.
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Old 08-07-2011, 12:38 PM #4
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This should be stickied immediatly, very good information, just a couple things IMHO
1. If your looking for a cheap good preformance hopper, buy the Viewloader VLocity ~$50, feeds 22+ BPS (important if you have a gun that can really mow) Guns with high rates of fire will be limited severely if your hopper can't feed the balls as fast as your marker can shoot them
2. Everything you can get used, GET IT! (with the exeption of a mask, as above stated) Buying everything brand new is EXTREMELY expensive. Especially on this site, most items are only lightly used and have been taken very good care of. Heres an example of a typical setup, bought new and used
NEW-2011 Proto matrix rail(great entry level speedball marker) 300, Dye rotor 140, 48/4500 tank 130
Used-2011 Proto matrix rail ~200, Dye rotor ~90, 48/4500 tank~80
Money saved- $190 and everything will be in the same working order
3. I COMPLETELY AGREE go with an older (pre 2007) High end marker over a new low end. THEY WILL PREFORM MUCH BETTER!! The only thing to consider is that their parts have probably been discontinued so getting them repaired when they break can be very costly.

Thats about it. great thread YeloSno hope this gets stickied you obviously spent alot of time on this
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Old 08-07-2011, 04:42 PM #5
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Sticky it, but the pinokio should be added to your hopper's. Work great, and can be bought used for quite cheap.
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Old 08-07-2011, 05:05 PM #6
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Wow this amazing...hope people respect the time and effort it took to make this thread
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Old 08-08-2011, 12:14 AM #7
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Thanks, and forgot about the good ol' pinokio! Will do
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Old 08-09-2011, 05:08 AM #8
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Old 08-09-2011, 02:13 PM #9
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Old 08-09-2011, 02:42 PM #10
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IMO the pictures are a bit unnecessary but good info regardless. Nitrogen tank before hopper for many reasons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish916 View Post
The solenoid part has been beat to death...

Some different ideas. I'm assuming the player has a ****ty mask, spyder/tippman, gravity fed, c02, jeans, longsleeve, neck protector -esque set up.

a carbon fiber tank before a good hopper. A good nitro tank will work with any gun they buy for the rest of their career without wasting money to rent a steel tank or sinking more money than they have to into c02 refills when compressed air is free with entry. Makes your set up instantly lighter and more consistant. Plus you can't shoot very fast with c02 anyway because of the time it takes to convert from a liquid to a gas. consistency + lowered weight > unlikely rof limit raise.

Also I wouldn't buy new, you could and prices are much cheaper recently but It's still cheaper to buy a tank with a year or two left for $80-$90 and spend $20 to rehydro in the next few years. An out of hydro tank for $50ish + $20 to rehydro isn't a bad idea either.



my recommended hierarchy. Still assumes foggy mask/tippmann_spyder/gravity fed/c02 set up. I'd recommend starting with a spyder or tippmann to build basic gun skills and have very little invested if paintball isn't your thing.

Some useful tips
Don't get obnoxious colors, they don't look cool. Stick to black/red/blue/olive and you won't be made fun of. Applies for masks, jerseys, pants, packs, headgear.

Contrary to popular belief, khakis aren't cool and don't go well with 6 color proflexes. If your wearing khakis the only valid excuse is you're broke...like I can afford $25 a case at practice because I sold my paintball pants because the economy sucks, no one's hiring, and these were $3 from goodwill/they're stolen broke.

Get a gearbag somewhere along the line. Makes things much easier to travel with and move your gear and protects your gear how a duffel bag can't.

Don't bother with gloves, neck protectors or cups. Gloves are fine, I don't use them personally. Neck protectors are a waste of money, neck shots are uncommon with correct form your hands, forearms, mask, gun and hopper get shot most. Cups reduce running speed, chafe and are redundant with paintball pants as basically all of them have padded crotches.

Wear track or soccer cleats. You might have some soccer cleats already. Advantages are obvious. Don't bother with paintball cleats. They're heavy, expensive and generally inferior to a solid pair of nikes.

Don't upgrade gear on what position you think you play. Every player can use a 14 or 16 inch barrel without a problem. All packs regardless of 3+4 or 4+5 can hold about 7-9 pods, in a tourney most players carry 5-6, back players might want 1-2 more. Any properly tuned gun has enough efficiency to play back with. 45/45 tanks aren't a great idea for back players but it's very possible to shoot 6 pods and not run out of air with almost any gun.

As you improve you'll play a bit of every position because they build off each other. Corner players need to know how to play on the front lines, back center players need to be able to play everywhere. You also won't have time to change and reload a pack and switch tanks very often between points in tourney play where this applies most.

This list is written taking into account increasing player skill and importance of which skills to learn in order, as well as which gear gives a better advantage or removes a handicap the earliest feasible time for a smoother adjustment to tourney play.

1) Mask - older I3s, proto axis/pro axis and profilers are also great and about $50-$30. Paintball isn't fun when you can't see ****. A headband or sandana could also be gotten here. Sandanas are about $20 for a regular black or nothing special camouflage one, rare ones run for ridiculous prices. A headband or sweet band runs for $10 and under. Both keep the sweat [and maybe hair depending on length] out of your eyes, sandanas also keep paint out of your hair and some sun off your neck.

2) HPA - reasons above. Ninja, dxs, cp, crossfire, guerrilla air, macdev and dye are all great. $70-$100 depending on condition, hydo date.

3) pants and arm pads. Used pants on here run for $50-$25 on here. Proto, Dye, DXS, Smart Parts, Eclipse, and JT all make good pants. Knee pads with BDUs are an acceptable substitute. Get knee pads regardless if you don't play on turf or grass. Volley ball knee pads can work just as well as paintball pads. Don't try bike knee pads lol.

elbow/forearm pads - makes bounces off forearm more likely and you can slide without cutting up your forearm and elbow now. Most pads now days have thumb loops to prevent sliding. Older dye pads and new and old proto pads lack this and I prefer it as the loop digs in and gets me heated after a few hours. Dye, proto, eclipse, empire are all good choices for about $15-$35 used depending on condition. like new $35 pads > new $50 pads.

stick with a long or short sleeve t-shirt, don't buy a jersey right away. Save the money for paint and level up your sliding stat with your new pads and pants. It'll help for playing against better players later and making runs and short bumps without being shot...and you won't look like the jackass with a spyder and dye gear who can't shoot a bug out of the air.

4) a good hopper - Good hoppers allow you to set lanes if your gun can keep up and removes the handicap of a gravity fed hopper for things like shooting opposing players in so you can move up safely.

Rotors and prophecies are great. Rotors are very expensive new and run for the low $100s used. Prophecies I'm not sure, still expensive but less than a rotor. Halo B/Empire Reloader B/VLocity [and JR] are older but still good and run for about $30. I don't like torques or Pinocchios. I wouldn't bother with them.

5) a good pod pack. NXe, Empire, Dye/Proto make good packs for about $20-$40 used. The last 3 are smaller but feel a bit less stable. Nxe packs are bigger on your back but are arguably the best packs. The pro teams series are just different colors a black NXe elevation pack is nearly the same...but only comes in black. Stick to 4+5 and 3+4 packs. Anything holding more than 9 pods is stupid and useless. Get used to wearing a pack with a pod or two for recball. You might want the extra pod for when you use paint to lane players off break, shoot players in, and run and gun instead of strictly for head/chest shots.

6) a tourney competent gun. There's lots of price ranges and generally it needs to have psp ramping 10bps and semi. Honestly don't go below 06 but anything after 08 is going to be quite a bit more expensive. Don't bother with mid end bull**** like pmrs or anything dangerous power makes. You have much better choices for much cheaper.

$200-$300 range

dm6, ul'd pm7, ego6, alias intimidators, sft/nxt shockers, marq6/7/rapper, bob long protege and infinity legends are all good choices. All these guns are significantly better than the mid end stuff and saves you on average about $150 assuming a mid end runs at $400.

$300-$400 range

dm7, ego7, nicer private label shockers w/ aftermarket parts, Droid, BL Vice, and BL Closer are good choices. A bigger improvement from the last year than usual. Shockers are basically a perfect version of what you cold have bought slightly cheaper for lower performance. Droids are nice spool valves with amazing efficiency. The Vice is an higher end protege as the closer is to the marq6/7/r.

$500-$700 range

DM9, Ego9, Dye NT, BL Victory, luxe, Geo. First two are just big improvements from 08. The NT, Victory, and Luxe are different but great all round guns with some nice features like toolless maintenance. Geo is Eclipses spool valve, feels similar to an Ego, shoots like a spool.

$700 is more or less a waste of money imo. Bottom line is the higher price the nicer it gets. Everything sucks till about $200, increase in features/quality drops to insignificant after $700. Make sure you like your gun and feels good in your hands. You'll mentally play a bit better but anything works.

6) a jersey - all of them are pretty similar. They have ventilation and sometimes padding. Get one you like.
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Old 08-09-2011, 02:47 PM #11
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I would agree with you on the tank and hopper... But many fields actually rent out HPA tanks now, so it's not as big a deal anymore. The hoppers, though... Like hell they'll toss you something decent.

Playing pants, pads, and all that other equipment has been mentioned, but it's not vital for the vast majority of people.


It's been years and I still don't own a non-team jersey... And I don't own a team jersey anymore... and yeah. Never really was inclined to jerseys.
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Old 08-09-2011, 07:48 PM #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YeloSno View Post
I would agree with you on the tank and hopper... But many fields actually rent out HPA tanks now, so it's not as big a deal anymore. The hoppers, though... Like hell they'll toss you something decent.

Playing pants, pads, and all that other equipment has been mentioned, but it's not vital for the vast majority of people.


It's been years and I still don't own a non-team jersey... And I don't own a team jersey anymore... and yeah. Never really was inclined to jerseys.
Yeah but most fields that rent HPA tanks rent steelies. Steel tanks are only better than c02...because it's nitrogen and it's cheaper to buy a solid carbonfiber n2 tank than rent a steely a few times

My list was written with intent on making the transition to tourney play easier and cheaper but is still usable for recball. Pads and pants might be unneeded for many people but regardless it doesn't mean that a pod pack, good hopper, and high end gun are more vital for them.

I'd assume if tourney play isn't route they want to follow they'd stop after ending up with a good mask, a low end gun, and possibly a nitrogen tank. That way playing is still more enjoyable because you can see and c02 fills won't rip through their wallet and neither will renting gear.

Jerseys are listed last because they really aren't vital and a t shirt & pads will do you just as well.
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Old 08-09-2011, 08:36 PM #13
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I completely understand what you're getting at, and if someone were to start playing speedball from the beginning, they should probably take your advice, but I'm sharing what I've experienced and what many others have who have actually kept their stuff and stayed in the sport longer than a couple months.

It seems that it leads to great results as the vast majority of people who start playing paintball will start in a recball field of some sort without inflatable bunkers.
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Old 08-14-2011, 07:19 PM #14
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Old 08-16-2011, 10:25 PM #15
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Old 08-19-2011, 03:53 AM #16
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Really great thread. One thing I would add would be an animated diagram of how each marker works along with the explanation. You have one up there and it really does help people understand how they work.
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Old 08-19-2011, 03:47 PM #17
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True that...

I'll get on that tonight
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Old 08-21-2011, 08:51 PM #18
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Quote:
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Yeah but most fields that rent HPA tanks rent steelies. Steel tanks are only better than c02...because it's nitrogen and it's cheaper to buy a solid carbonfiber n2 tank than rent a steely a few times

My list was written with intent on making the transition to tourney play easier and cheaper but is still usable for recball. Pads and pants might be unneeded for many people but regardless it doesn't mean that a pod pack, good hopper, and high end gun are more vital for them.

I'd assume if tourney play isn't route they want to follow they'd stop after ending up with a good mask, a low end gun, and possibly a nitrogen tank. That way playing is still more enjoyable because you can see and c02 fills won't rip through their wallet and neither will renting gear.

Jerseys are listed last because they really aren't vital and a t shirt & pads will do you just as well.
Dude i don't know where you play but everywhere i play they'll rent you a steely for $5 tops compapred to a what $130 new carbonfiber tank??
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Old 08-23-2011, 12:42 PM #19
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You should mention the Invert Halo Too now, it is pretty solid and in the B/S/T for like 20 bucks.
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Old 08-23-2011, 12:46 PM #20
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Hmmm, I'll check that and put that in.

But yeah, bought one for $25 off Zephyrpaintball.com a little while back. It's like a Halo that doesn't suck
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Old 08-23-2011, 05:14 PM #21
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Great info and good reading, thanks for sharing!
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