Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-27-2011, 12:09 AM #1954
kapp_badbloodz
CLASSIFIED
 
kapp_badbloodz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: CLASSIFIED
 has been a member for 10 years
kapp_badbloodz supports Cereal Killerz 2
kapp_badbloodz supports our troops
kapp_badbloodz is one of the top 1000 posters on PbNation
Wait wtf is going on im confused here... crane are you double teaming this thread with another SN?

Now here is a cop's perspective on your little protest post:

I whole-heartedly believe people should protest. I think that it is something all Americans should do if they believe in something. Just to clear that up before I start posting some stuff.

The thing with those videos is that they do not show the footage prior to and during the hightened stages of a protest. All they do is recap the footage of the so called "police brutality". Now before you get your panties in a bunch here are the questions you must ask yourself:

1) Did the police serve as a deterence or a escalation force? What I mean here is that were the police at a large enough standoff distance as to not escalate the tensions of the protest. Were they moved in to soon to deter a violent protest or did they rush in to soon?

2) Were the protesters peaceful? Prior to, during, and after were the protesters throwing anything? Setting off pyrotechniques? Hurting people, fighting, destruction of property (essentially anything that is breaking the law)? If this was the case they police could have made their presence more known and moved their perimeter closer to the protest. In turn this could have made the protesters become more violent.

3) Did the police give an order to dispurse? Did the police give any lawful order to the protesters that the situation has become escalated to the point where lawful intervension needed to happen? I did hear a brief order to vacate or arrests will be made. Again the video did not show very much before, during, or after. If the police gave the order they could start moving in. Do I believe they should have started throwing bangs and using riot devices??? I didnt see how large the crowd was behind the camera. It is very tough for me to say what I would do in that situation since I cannot determine, as a LE personnel, what is going on in its entirety. Even if I did it is a hard call to make.

4) What caused the police to react? Again... police do not (or are supposed to not) act as a singularity during protests/riots. You have command and control and you work as a unit. Think of it like a football team. You have your blockers, controllers, arrest teams, dog teams on standby, a few others, and a commander. The commander's responsibility to for squad movement and identifying key rioters to move the squad to apprehend those people. The blockers bush people back, make a hole, escape the person into the secured area, and arrest to do-badders. They are then escorted away. What I did see was the perimeter team trying to keep people back...

Now for my evaluation of the footage. It looked pretty bad. Again I did not see the footage prior to, during, and after this incident so it is hard to give accurate opinions. But I will say this. I do not know what those officers were facing behind the camera. I do not know if people were being violent enough to have countermeasures thrown. I do know that I heard an order to vacate. If a 100 guys in riot gear told me to leave or disburse I probably will... usually they dont **** around when they say **** like that.

Now when that guy went down and the people went back they were expressing concern for their friend. However, the police would have identified that he was injured and had paramedics on scene in moments. They all usually have radios. They were told to leave and should not have came back. I can understand how this can be PERCIEVED as a threat You do notice one cop lower his weapon and allow the people to return. He did not percieve them as a threat.

The douche who threw the bang pretty much ruined it for everyone. He could have just OC'd the **** out of the area and called it good. He threw a bang right into the crowd. It usually says those things are not meant to be within close proximity to people and may cause injury. Again... dont know what devices they are, what their SOPs are, etc... I just know if it goes bang it probably shouldnt be used very close to people. There are other ways to handle that situation. Am I going to say the cops were wrong... no. Am I going to say the police were right... no. But given the known circumstances and the circumstances that are unknown the police have every right to defend themselves and their perimeter. They have their marching orders. They tell people to leave and they dont they use the minimum amount of force necessary to solve the situation. It is based of officer perception which cannot be judged with 20/20 hindsight. Videos only show half truths... you need to get the whole truth before you can make a call. I try to wait to the last second to make a call and its always worked out for me as a cop. I like to see the whole picture before I do something than can change the lives of others and myself. Its no ****ing joke. Those people have zero responsibility out there... the cops are responsible for the proptery of the city, the propterty of the police, the lives of the people, the lives of their partners, and their own lives (which usually comes last on the list which is why I put it there). They have to make hard calls. Sometimes the force they use is warrented sometimes its not. People make mistakes and its hard not to judge people who are in the limelight so much.

Now with the guy who got hit with a gas can. The injury doesnt look like it happened at point blank. That thing will take your face off. Did the officer shoot him directly or was it fired as intended and was the protester in the wrong place at the wrong time? If the officer fired in self defense and was only able to use the gas gun then what caused him to fire onto the man like that? What did the man do? Basically what it sounds like is it could have been fired into the air but maybe the officer didnt arc it enough? Gas cans are supposed to be fired into crowds of people to make them disburse... so I dont think this was malicious... I need MORE INFO to really make a call if it really is an excessive UOF violation.

Bottom line people is that these videos show half truths. I am not siding with any party (protestor or officer) but you need to see things from beginning to end. Officers are in charge of so many things its crazy. They are liable up the *** and are taught to mean business when they have to. If nobody took police seriously would anybody listen to them? That is why some people freak out when they get pulled over is because police are serious business. They have the ability to alter the way you currently live. I say this because if you decide one day you want to traffic drugs and you get pulled over and arrested... you're going to jail for a long time and that officer has to make the call on how he is going to handle a possibly hostile and deadly situation.

People know they have rights... and they have the right to break the rules. I love that about America. But people need to use those rights and read up on what violates city ordinances and causes the riot squads to come out. People need to educate themselves on how to keep a protest peaceful and non-violent. When people get loud, yell, and become angry this is why these guys come out because once any protest over 25 people gets like that it becomes a mob... and only ****ty stuff happens after that.

If anyone decides that I am wrong feel free to post... ill try to answer all your questions and enlighten you on some things.
__________________
OFFICIAL ORVIS WRECKING CREW
ANS GEAR || THE VEST GUY || PINOKIO HOPPERS

"Originally posted by slateman: Air Force . . . serious business"
MGDT: "Originally posted by Marine786: We had one guy get orders for a deployment while on a deployment."
AFDT:"Originally posted by f2f4: Or maybe he meant our exposed and aerated crotches. Privates. Because lord knows our PT gear only encourages "wardrobe malfunctions.""
kapp_badbloodz is offline  
Old Sponsored Links Remove Advertisement
Advertisement
Old 10-27-2011, 02:58 AM #1955
Crane
Infotography
 
Crane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Deutschland
Crane supports our troops
From the previous videos and other reports from this event it seems that the crowd wasn't entirely peaceful.

Earlier in the day the crowd gathered and were told to leave by police and they did peacefully. Not sure why they left because they were well within their rights to be there.

That night they came back and again were peaceful. Then the riot police were called in to maintain order. Then police reports say that a few people from the crowd started throwing rocks and bottles at the riot police. Then it escalated to the video you saw.

So I will concede that, sure, the police had the right to use an escalated force to contain the situation. Whether or not they did that in an appropriate order, I don't know.

Down range or EOF is roughly Shout- Let the person know what they are doing is bad and you are not happy about it. Show- Show your weapon, or demonstrate in no uncertain terms that if they dont listen to you, you will cause harm to them. Shove- Show them you are serious about physically hurting them without causing too much damage. Then finally Shoot- At this point we would shoot to kill..In the riot police's case, probably use of a non-lethal device such as tear gas.

As you stated, I don't know if those steps were taken. What it looked like though was a few cops got to fire their cool weapons, and that one dude with the flashbang felt left out so he targeted a group pf people trying to help an injured man.

So, I think, regardless of the events leading up to the situation getting out of hand, the police made poor decisions in handling the situation. I agree that their job is to protect the city and property, but you would also agree that it is their job to protect the citizens of that city too. I guess it could be argued both ways, but I feel that the way the situation was handled was wrong and put people lives in danger over essentially people throwing rocks...
__________________

Last edited by Crane : 10-27-2011 at 03:02 AM.
Crane is offline  
Old 10-27-2011, 11:23 AM #1956
SniperForce-Duffek
Delta Farce
 
SniperForce-Duffek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
SniperForce-Duffek plays in the APPA D5 division
Quote:
Originally Posted by kapp_badbloodz View Post
HAHAHAHA!!! We played you guys in XPSL before! You guys used to wear camo long sleeves didnt you?
Yezzir. What team? Did you lose?? Those were the days.

Did you get the link I posted for your foldable dog bowls?
__________________
Kick *** military apparel _ Mars Strategic

"May god have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't."
G.S.P
SniperForce-Duffek is offline  
Old 10-27-2011, 04:03 PM #1957
kapp_badbloodz
CLASSIFIED
 
kapp_badbloodz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: CLASSIFIED
 has been a member for 10 years
kapp_badbloodz supports Cereal Killerz 2
kapp_badbloodz supports our troops
kapp_badbloodz is one of the top 1000 posters on PbNation
Yeah i got it... im trying to get the kennels to buy 4320502380 of them for us. The fecal year hasnt kicked in yet

and crane you are absolutely correct. There is a fine line that is walked every day where you either are A) not protecting people enough and others are taking away their rights B) you are protecting people too much and taking rights from them and C) you protect the people in the best possible manor however, you cannot always protect every single person.

Its rough man... people ***** when the police are there and then they ***** when we are not there.
__________________
OFFICIAL ORVIS WRECKING CREW
ANS GEAR || THE VEST GUY || PINOKIO HOPPERS

"Originally posted by slateman: Air Force . . . serious business"
MGDT: "Originally posted by Marine786: We had one guy get orders for a deployment while on a deployment."
AFDT:"Originally posted by f2f4: Or maybe he meant our exposed and aerated crotches. Privates. Because lord knows our PT gear only encourages "wardrobe malfunctions.""
kapp_badbloodz is offline  
Old 10-27-2011, 04:33 PM #1958
NEp8ntballer
 
 
NEp8ntballer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
NEp8ntballer supports our troops
time to go visit the dental hobby shop
__________________
best porn thread in ST history by ScorpionShock - I was there 6/7 or 6/8 depending on your timezone

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Official ST Atheists #8


Old Feedback
NEp8ntballer is offline  
Old 10-27-2011, 08:21 PM #1959
CptObvious
2A755 / 2A753
 
CptObvious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: NJ>TX>FL>NV>VA>FL
CptObvious owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
CptObvious owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
CptObvious supports Bob Gurnsey
As for the veteran for who nailed in the head- Does it suck? Yes. I highly doubt that the tear gas canister that was fired was shot directly at him in an attempt to harm him. Oakland has a history of violence, and as kapp pointed out, the video is one sided. I can not seem to track down any article that explains what led to the Police cracking down on the protest, but I am sure there were bad apples in the crowd. (And lets face it, a lot of oakland does not like the po-po). However, I still don't see it as police brutality, especially as compared to protests over the past year in other parts of the world.

When the occupy wall street spiel first began (even prior to the start, when I read what they were planning), I sympathized with 'em. The original intent was to protest the greed and corruption of corporate scum who took money lent to them to help their companies out, and then dolled it to their execs for bonuses and ****. However, it has goten way out of hand. There seems to be no central leadership to take control, and if there is, they are not able to control it. The protests have become a sesspool of different views, from those who still protest the original intent, to the Nazi party marching with them, but their case is against the "judeo-capitalist banksters". Even ACORN, CAIR and socialist activists have become involved in these movements. The original ideal has been lost. I also can't sympathize with a movement that has denounced our COUNTRY (Government is one thing, Country is another, mind you), and disgraced it so by using our Flag as a ****ing door mat. (There were other examples, but I am drawing a blank at the moment).

Quote:
Many racialists are unsure about, and even against, these Occupy Wall Street protests all around the country. It has been pointed out to me that many protesters are non-white and/or “communists.” Well my answer to that is: “WHO CARES?!” They are against the same evil, corrupted, degenerate capitalist elitists that WE are against! Instead of screaming, “6 million more!” The pro-white movementites should be JOINING this Occupy movement and supporting it!.......

- ROCKY SUHAYDA
[American Nazi Party leaders' opening paragraph, telling other Nazis to support the Occupy movement].

And look, I'm all for freedom of speech, protest, etc. And I also understand that there is a very fine line that the cops walk when protecting both sides. All I see in videos I have seen from oakland are from one side. There had to of been something done that was bad enough for the police to be ordered to disperse the crowds, but with the media bias and all the social media sympathizers, it's hard to get a grip on the truth.
__________________
USAF|PS3
psn: simplyMAXX
Headbangers Scenario Team
Headbangers on Facebook
Proudly sponsored by: The Vest Guy || ANS Gear || Pinokio Hoppers || St!ffi Barrels || ChroniX Radio
CptObvious is offline  
Old 10-28-2011, 04:00 PM #1960
CptObvious
2A755 / 2A753
 
CptObvious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: NJ>TX>FL>NV>VA>FL
CptObvious owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
CptObvious owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
CptObvious supports Bob Gurnsey
I love how I have to coherce our resource advisor to issue me **** that I've never been given. i.e. Winter gear. His first question after I asked if there was winter gear available was "Who told you?" And then when I finally got him to give it to me, he goes "Don't tell anyone else." I shouldn't have to twist their arm to get **** issued, it's their ****ing job.
__________________
USAF|PS3
psn: simplyMAXX
Headbangers Scenario Team
Headbangers on Facebook
Proudly sponsored by: The Vest Guy || ANS Gear || Pinokio Hoppers || St!ffi Barrels || ChroniX Radio
CptObvious is offline  
Old 10-28-2011, 09:15 PM #1961
NEp8ntballer
 
 
NEp8ntballer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
NEp8ntballer supports our troops
Quote:
Originally Posted by CptObvious View Post
I love how I have to coherce our resource advisor to issue me **** that I've never been given. i.e. Winter gear. His first question after I asked if there was winter gear available was "Who told you?" And then when I finally got him to give it to me, he goes "Don't tell anyone else." I shouldn't have to twist their arm to get **** issued, it's their ****ing job.
that's pretty gay.

I sprained/separated my shoulder this morning at PT. While playing dodgeball so not manly.
__________________
best porn thread in ST history by ScorpionShock - I was there 6/7 or 6/8 depending on your timezone

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Official ST Atheists #8


Old Feedback
NEp8ntballer is offline  
Old 10-28-2011, 10:22 PM #1962
akward silence
Deep Sea Diving
 
akward silence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Honolulu, HI
 has been a member for 10 years
akward silence is one of the top 100 posters on PbNation
akward silence is a top reviewer
I went to an O-5 to O-6 promotion today, good times. Gotta love the Oclub.
__________________
+14/-0
2014 Forester XT
2008 335i
OSTT GURU
akward silence is offline  
Old 10-28-2011, 11:27 PM #1963
Crane
Infotography
 
Crane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Deutschland
Crane supports our troops
The newest tattoo..



About 6 hours total.
__________________
Crane is offline  
Old 10-29-2011, 12:59 AM #1964
NEp8ntballer
 
 
NEp8ntballer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
NEp8ntballer supports our troops
I permanently modified my body in less than a second. My collar bone will never again attach to where it belongs.

sweet ink btw, I'm kinda surprised there's a decent tattoo guy out there.
__________________
best porn thread in ST history by ScorpionShock - I was there 6/7 or 6/8 depending on your timezone

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Official ST Atheists #8


Old Feedback

Last edited by NEp8ntballer : 10-29-2011 at 01:35 AM.
NEp8ntballer is offline  
Old 10-29-2011, 03:32 AM #1965
Crane
Infotography
 
Crane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Deutschland
Crane supports our troops
He is an artist in the states.. But he is over here as a civ contractor making way more money supervising maintenance on the RGs. Me and my friends just chipped in to pick up the supplies and he is tattooing us for free. I think I had $150 invested and have well over $350 in new ink.
__________________
Crane is offline  
Old 10-29-2011, 03:20 PM #1966
Deathmoney07
 
 
Deathmoney07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Alexandria, VA
Deathmoney07 plays in the PSP
Deathmoney07 donated to help Peyton Trent
Deathmoney07 supports our troops
Sick ink Crane. I know of a few guys who got nice tats on KAF for 1/8 of the price if they had received them back stateside....I also saw some really ****ty tats too lol.
Deathmoney07 is offline  
Old 10-29-2011, 11:33 PM #1967
Crane
Infotography
 
Crane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Deutschland
Crane supports our troops
Finding a roommate seems like it will be a daunting task..
__________________
Crane is offline  
Old 10-30-2011, 10:25 AM #1968
DeadBodyMan
Pricedollaz
 
DeadBodyMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Germany
Annual Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
DeadBodyMan is a Paintball photographer
i would have gotten a tattoo of your mom but im not big enough for it to fit on me.
__________________
I'm the HNIC of Steven C. Price Photography But I never wear a suit
Social Sites | Vimeo | Twitter | Youtube | Fracture Competition Program Facebook
Active Duty Air Force Above All | Get TuF TuF Shot Video

I beat women, they call me daddy.
DeadBodyMan is offline  
Old 10-30-2011, 04:51 PM #1969
kapp_badbloodz
CLASSIFIED
 
kapp_badbloodz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: CLASSIFIED
 has been a member for 10 years
kapp_badbloodz supports Cereal Killerz 2
kapp_badbloodz supports our troops
kapp_badbloodz is one of the top 1000 posters on PbNation
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crane View Post
Finding a roommate seems like it will be a daunting task..
So y'all are seriously going through this ****... damn dude... PCS to mcguire

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadBodyMan View Post
i would have gotten a tattoo of your mom but im not big enough for it to fit on me.
HEY SHES A NICE LADY!!!
__________________
OFFICIAL ORVIS WRECKING CREW
ANS GEAR || THE VEST GUY || PINOKIO HOPPERS

"Originally posted by slateman: Air Force . . . serious business"
MGDT: "Originally posted by Marine786: We had one guy get orders for a deployment while on a deployment."
AFDT:"Originally posted by f2f4: Or maybe he meant our exposed and aerated crotches. Privates. Because lord knows our PT gear only encourages "wardrobe malfunctions.""
kapp_badbloodz is offline  
Old 10-30-2011, 09:09 PM #1970
Crane
Infotography
 
Crane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Deutschland
Crane supports our troops
Quote:
Originally Posted by kapp_badbloodz View Post
So y'all are seriously going through this ****... damn dude... PCS to mcguire
Yeah I am in a weird position. My daughter will live here with my wife, so if I PCS.. I will only see my daughter maybe 70 or so days out of the year, give or take. We bought the house 2 years ago with the new homebuyers credit, so we got $8000 in cash. If I sell the house before I have orders to PCS I have to pay back the $8k, which I can't exactly afford.

So there really is only one option here for me...

But yeah.. looks like it will happen. I am heading home now, and we are going to try to figure this out for a few months.. but she is pretty set on not being married anymore.. :/
__________________
Crane is offline  
Old 10-30-2011, 10:06 PM #1971
CptObvious
2A755 / 2A753
 
CptObvious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: NJ>TX>FL>NV>VA>FL
CptObvious owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
CptObvious owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
CptObvious supports Bob Gurnsey
Sorry to hear about that Crane. That's a real bummer dude. And definitely nice ink. I keep wanting to get my back done, but money and time off to get to NYC are a pain.

Also- Akward is alive...holy ****.

And figures that an offisir would **** himself up playing dodgeball. *****. Er, sorry...LT *****.
__________________
USAF|PS3
psn: simplyMAXX
Headbangers Scenario Team
Headbangers on Facebook
Proudly sponsored by: The Vest Guy || ANS Gear || Pinokio Hoppers || St!ffi Barrels || ChroniX Radio
CptObvious is offline  
Old 10-30-2011, 11:45 PM #1972
kapp_badbloodz
CLASSIFIED
 
kapp_badbloodz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: CLASSIFIED
 has been a member for 10 years
kapp_badbloodz supports Cereal Killerz 2
kapp_badbloodz supports our troops
kapp_badbloodz is one of the top 1000 posters on PbNation
havent seen awkward in the subaru thread for a while either... he must of had to go back to basic
__________________
OFFICIAL ORVIS WRECKING CREW
ANS GEAR || THE VEST GUY || PINOKIO HOPPERS

"Originally posted by slateman: Air Force . . . serious business"
MGDT: "Originally posted by Marine786: We had one guy get orders for a deployment while on a deployment."
AFDT:"Originally posted by f2f4: Or maybe he meant our exposed and aerated crotches. Privates. Because lord knows our PT gear only encourages "wardrobe malfunctions.""
kapp_badbloodz is offline  
Old 10-30-2011, 11:52 PM #1973
CptObvious
2A755 / 2A753
 
CptObvious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: NJ>TX>FL>NV>VA>FL
CptObvious owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
CptObvious owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
CptObvious supports Bob Gurnsey
11pm-7am shift...I'm back in my element. Oh how I missed working nights.
__________________
USAF|PS3
psn: simplyMAXX
Headbangers Scenario Team
Headbangers on Facebook
Proudly sponsored by: The Vest Guy || ANS Gear || Pinokio Hoppers || St!ffi Barrels || ChroniX Radio
CptObvious is offline  
Old 10-31-2011, 12:12 AM #1974
NEp8ntballer
 
 
NEp8ntballer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
NEp8ntballer supports our troops
Quote:
Originally Posted by CptObvious View Post
Sorry to hear about that Crane. That's a real bummer dude. And definitely nice ink. I keep wanting to get my back done, but money and time off to get to NYC are a pain.

Also- Akward is alive...holy ****.

And figures that an offisir would **** himself up playing dodgeball. *****. Er, sorry...LT *****.
you're lucky you make me laugh. I have friends at Langley.
__________________
best porn thread in ST history by ScorpionShock - I was there 6/7 or 6/8 depending on your timezone

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Official ST Atheists #8


Old Feedback
NEp8ntballer is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
Forum Jump