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Old 08-03-2011, 07:23 PM #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathwish_DW

Hey AOspades!
Does that answer your question?
I want a prototype in my system then damnit!
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Old 08-03-2011, 07:27 PM #65
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Originally Posted by y0da900 View Post
If people would not mind, could you please prioritize what you want in a bolt kit with the exception of light and efficient. We are not trying to compete with Techt on just weight, and efficiency is already the primary focus. But important things you would prefer us to pay close attention to as secondary focuses to try and keep things well balanced.

Smooth shot, consistency, efficiency, low sound signature, and a nice looking toolless backcap that will add to the good looks of the marker.

Also, standard o-ring sizes will be a huge plus, as some companies use odd sized o-rings which are a pain to find.
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Old 08-03-2011, 08:06 PM #66
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I source all of my o-rings at McMaster-Carr for all of my projects. As far as I'm concerned, if it isn't readily available it shouldn't be used - there are very few cases where a standard size would not function just as well with a touch of tweaking. Obviously other forms of seals like manifolds and some hybrid seals like in a pressure controlled poppet do not apply to that statement, but for run of the mill o-rings, availability is key. May be a mix of metric and English units, but they are all readily available.
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Old 08-03-2011, 08:09 PM #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AoSpades View Post
I want a prototype in my system then damnit!
You said you didn't have yours!

One awesome kit at a time!
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Old 08-03-2011, 08:13 PM #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathwish_DW
You said you didn't have yours!

One awesome kit at a time!
Well I DO have a Closer....... Is that good enough? Haha
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Old 08-03-2011, 08:15 PM #69
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Originally Posted by Deathwish_DW View Post
You said you didn't have yours!

One awesome kit at a time!
Send the thing to me! It's my Victory still.
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Old 08-03-2011, 08:17 PM #70
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Originally Posted by TOS Bravo

Send the thing to me! It's my Victory still.
Hey if it takes sending my Closer to you as collateral... I'll do it, at least Paypal won't screw me over on THAT!
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Old 08-03-2011, 08:18 PM #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AoSpades View Post
Well I DO have a Closer....... Is that good enough? Haha
Oh god. Another marker to play with.

Tell you what.
Once I sell some of my boards and crap (in about a week),
I will purchase a closer and see what can be done. Keep in mind I BUY 1 marker per thing we do. It adds up. :d


Oh. And for those of little faith, let's just say "I know a guy" and that a small run of bolts is NOTHING compared to the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of regulators, gauges, and other fun things he does for a living.
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Old 08-03-2011, 09:57 PM #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y0da900 View Post
If people would not mind, could you please prioritize what you want in a bolt kit with the exception of light and efficient. We are not trying to compete with Techt on just weight, and efficiency is already the primary focus. But important things you would prefer us to pay close attention to as secondary focuses to try and keep things well balanced.
stock backcap or even a new backcap that is low profile. Not to bring up techt again, but i dont like the engines backcap. it is ugly in imo and ruins the looks of my spec r.
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Old 08-04-2011, 12:38 PM #73
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Is it confirmed that this will just be a bolt system? Or could we expect something more?
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Old 08-04-2011, 01:00 PM #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AoSpades View Post
Is it confirmed that this will just be a bolt system? Or could we expect something more?
Bolt/cap/can?

or are you talking about gauges, accents, etc?
(I'm not really sure what you're talking about)
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Old 08-04-2011, 01:40 PM #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathwish_DW View Post
Bolt/cap/can?

or are you talking about gauges, accents, etc?
(I'm not really sure what you're talking about)
Seeing as some of your projects have taken existing markers and the end product being just the markers shell, I was wondering to what extent you both are going to be inproving this marker. Seeing as Yoda was giving estimates of nearly a whole case off one fill it peaked my curiosity about the final product just being a bolt system considering it's almost unheard of for a spool to get that kind of efficiency.
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Old 08-04-2011, 02:07 PM #76
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R u gonna try to incorporate a spring into it as well. Should help with dwell and such..
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Old 08-04-2011, 03:04 PM #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AoSpades View Post
Seeing as some of your projects have taken existing markers and the end product being just the markers shell, I was wondering to what extent you both are going to be inproving this marker. Seeing as Yoda was giving estimates of nearly a whole case off one fill it peaked my curiosity about the final product just being a bolt system considering it's almost unheard of for a spool to get that kind of efficiency.
The closed bolt ion kit is getting just shy of a case stock and I believe someone was able to get a case, but dont quote me on that.


So you're wondering what else besides the bolt system would be made in order to get that kind of boost, correct?

Just the bolt system. :p

If there is anything else that can be improved upon, we'll take a look.
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Old 08-04-2011, 03:11 PM #78
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I'll go along with whoever said accent kits. I would love cf accents for my Spec R. I know we're talking about a bolt system here, but man accents would be nice. And it will be great to see more aftermarket support for Dp guns.
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Old 08-04-2011, 03:43 PM #79
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Depending on any number of factors - including which member of the Ion family it gets retrofit into, the closed bolt kit typically sees between 1,600 and 2,500 shots a tank. Overbore, mechanical, no QEV gets around 1,600. Underbore, QEV, devolumized to high hell dump chamber gets the higher numbers (typically around 2,200, some higher). If someone hands you a single number and says that is what you get per tank, it is most likely a cherry picked example that will work for a few people in identical situations.

So depending on how you look at it, yes - just a bolt kit. That doesn't mean it will operate anything remotely in the same fashion as a stock G3 though. Could also operate very similarly just with a lot more thought put into the dynamics of the system - both fluid and kinematic. Like I mentioned - I have things that are just well refined variations on familiar systems and some things that are rather out there. We'll be trying both kinds before deciding which route to go.

Historically, most spools have been poorly designed with little to no thought put into fluid dynamics, kinematic responses, and conservation of energy. My closed bolt Ions can break a case for most users, and Lurker's Eigenbolt for Shockers can do it. Both systems were designed with efficiency as the ultimate goal. Both happened to be designed by actual engineers who understand the operating principles behind them - something that can, surprisingly, not be said for many systems throughout paintball's history.

A gun manufacturer also has to look at things in a much broader spectrum than aftermarket manufacturers do - they typically need to create a much more balanced gun that could do with a lot of tweaking in almost all regards - but will work out of the box in almost all environments and not die catastrophically the instant someone who doesn't grasp the concept of fresh batteries and lube being important gets their hands on it. Aftermarket gets to chase those specific targets for the people that want a focus on something.

And the case+ is a goal, not an estimate I have little doubt that I can get over a case with some of the designs - that does not mean that the concessions that would be made to get there would be found acceptable to the masses. It's a balance that needs to be struck. I don't doubt Techt would have no problems cutting most of their bolt weights down significantly if the severe loss of durability was something they were happy with, all part of the balancing act.

Yes, springs are involved in some of those designs, but not all.
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Old 08-04-2011, 05:04 PM #80
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There's a reason why you're called yoda.
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Old 08-06-2011, 09:07 PM #81
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For those who care:
Spoke with a few people "in the industry" and we have the manufacturing process lined up.

Jonathan is tweaking the setup/making alternates.

Still looking to purchase a G4 as well. As soon as we have one in hand, it's full steam ahead.
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Old 08-06-2011, 09:58 PM #82
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For those who care:
Spoke with a few people "in the industry" and we have the manufacturing process lined up.

Jonathan is tweaking the setup/making alternates.

Still looking to purchase a G4 as well. As soon as we have one in hand, it's full steam ahead.
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Old 08-06-2011, 10:18 PM #83
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Quote:
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For those who care:
Spoke with a few people "in the industry" and we have the manufacturing process lined up.

Jonathan is tweaking the setup/making alternates.

Still looking to purchase a G4 as well. As soon as we have one in hand, it's full steam ahead.
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Old 08-06-2011, 10:34 PM #84
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yeah getta spec r. they are sexi
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