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Old 08-15-2011, 04:17 PM #85
Pail Ail (Banned)
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So communist governments in the 20th century didn't both sponsor and censor? Seriously?
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Old 08-15-2011, 04:23 PM #86
drgonzo
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Originally Posted by Pail Ail View Post
So communist governments in the 20th century didn't both sponsor and censor? Seriously?
Not a relevant point. The case is comparative, government funding vs private funding. In the communist paradigm, without government sponsorship there would be no arts, so there is no comparative case to be made regardless. That is exactly the kind of ideological non-point that contributes nothing to the discussion.

Even if we consider the communist example, then we should be able to come up with examples of US censorship of government-sponsored art to compare and weigh against the effect of the private sponsorship component of the US system.
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Last edited by drgonzo : 08-15-2011 at 04:27 PM.
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Old 08-15-2011, 04:27 PM #87
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I look at government in the higher education institutions the same way I look at government in the arts. Shouldn't be there.

Why no government in the arts? Government sponsored (correction/clarification: sponsoring) arts can easily become censorship (correction/clarification: government censoring arts). Also, if the art was good, they wouldn't need government to pay for it....
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I think there is a stark difference between private censorship and government censorship. One of which you can just find someone else who likes your art, the other your art is banned.
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Government "censorship" vis a vis involvement in the arts you speak of is, generally, a denial of funding or display. If the government decides not to fund or display you are in fact just as able to find someone who will do either privately as if a private entity decided not to fund or display.

If government engages in true censorship, then even private funding would not prevent the action...
Ya dig?
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Old 08-15-2011, 04:33 PM #88
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Ya dig?
I don't dig why you posted your points and my refutation of those points. The only thing to dig from that post is that you are agreeing that you were wrong?
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Last edited by drgonzo : 08-15-2011 at 04:37 PM.
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Old 08-15-2011, 04:41 PM #89
Pail Ail (Banned)
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Not a relevant point. The case is comparative, government funding vs private funding. In the communist paradigm, without government sponsorship there would be no arts, so there is no comparative case to be made regardless. That is exactly the kind of ideological non-point that contributes nothing to the discussion.
Rofl. SK is right, you're just copping out.

Quote:
Even if we consider the communist example, then we should be able to come up with examples of US censorship of government-sponsored art to compare and weigh against the effect of the private sponsorship component of the US system.
Lol. There's no point in discussing things when you have such a static view of the world. By sponsoring anything there is going to be some form of censorship, government input, etc. This discussion blows anyway.
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Old 08-15-2011, 04:43 PM #90
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Rofl. SK is right, you're just copping out.
Bringing up the irrelevant example of the communist system is the cop out. We are talking about the US system. The US system has several very important features that the communist system did not have which makes my point -- first amendment rights and private property rights foremost. To discard those and think you are making a case is the ultimate ideological sidetrack and makes no relevant point.

It's really to your benefit that you drop the sidetrack, you're only going to crash and burn if you insist on pursuing the communist case. The US system can move to 100% government sponsorship of the arts and it would still compare favorably to the communist system because of the First Amendment. So not only would you be making no point, you would only be able to prove the opposite of what the original claim was.
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Last edited by drgonzo : 08-15-2011 at 04:52 PM.
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Old 08-15-2011, 04:59 PM #91
Pail Ail (Banned)
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Sorry, you said to provide examples of government-sponsored censorship. Didn't know the only government we could use was the US, or that the US couldn't possibly have features similar to that of many communist nations in the 20th century, or modern-day Venezuela...


Rofl. No, we couldn't move to 100% government sponsorship. The first amendment really means nothing without proper interpretation, anyone with an ounce of experience in political philosophy can know that. Any interpretation of the 1st Amendment can be justified because it is an INTERPRETATION. You need more John Hasnas in your life.

http://faculty.msb.edu/hasnasj/GTWebSite/MythWeb.htm
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Old 08-15-2011, 05:02 PM #92
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Originally Posted by Pail Ail View Post
Sorry, you said to provide examples of government-sponsored censorship. Didn't know the only government we could use was the US, or that the US couldn't possibly have features similar to that of many communist nations in the 20th century, or modern-day Venezuela...
You would know ... if you, you know, read the discussion you responded to rather than posting a bunch of knee-jerk ideological talking points. You have just validated exactly what I said about the responses in this discussion. On one hand you have the discussion which was basically over with my first response. On the other hand you have a bunch of ideologues who can't handle having no case posting ideological drivel.

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Rofl. No, we couldn't move to 100% government sponsorship. The first amendment really means nothing without proper interpretation, anyone with an ounce of experience in political philosophy can know that. Any interpretation of the 1st Amendment can be justified because it is an INTERPRETATION. You need more John Hasnas in your life.
It doesn't matter how it is interpreted. Compared to the lack of such constitutional limits, even the most minimal interpretation is better. It's so easy to shoot down these ideological objections because you're taking a rigid, absolutist ideological position.
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Last edited by drgonzo : 08-15-2011 at 05:21 PM.
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Old 08-15-2011, 05:04 PM #93
Pail Ail (Banned)
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And what ideology am I irrationally proclaiming in opposition to you? Tell me oh wise one.

edit: Even openly left-leaning posters are calling out your cop-out, maybe you should realize you're the ideologue.
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Old 08-15-2011, 11:07 PM #94
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I'm against it, mostly because I'm going to be a grad student in a year.
So either:

A. quit wasting the tax payers and your money

or

B. Get an education with marketable private sector skills.

You're going to law school right? who gives a **** how much your school costs just got chase a couple ambulances.
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Old 08-16-2011, 12:02 AM #95
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On one hand you have the discussion which was basically over with my first response.
LOL! I actually laughed vocally when I read this, to the point where my room mate poked his head in the door hoping I was watching a Chappelle Show rerun.

Line of the week right here, top contender for line of the month.

Which discussion was this again?
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Old 08-16-2011, 12:10 AM #96
Pail Ail (Banned)
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I just have one more question for Gonzo:

So, when you made your first response, what sort of point were you trying to make? What are the implications of your claims?
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