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Old 08-02-2011, 09:34 AM #1
rgray80
 
 
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My new Autococker

Hey all,

I just wanted to show off my new cocker I just bought and had a couple questions about it. It's a System X Xonik Autococker. I'm pretty familiar with cockers as they are my favorite markers!



1. How does the Xonik cockers fare up to other cockers in terms of quality and reliability? I know System X is out of business and its hard to find any information about them or their markers. Would the Xonik be near the top of the list or the bottom?

2. I bought this off a guy for $80. It's in excellent condition with no scratches anywhere. Do you think I got a good deal on it or did I get duped? What would be the current value for these?

3. The stock barrel looks custom. I wanted to get a longer tip but keep the System X back. Are these barrels interchangable with others? It looks very similar to the Dye UL barrel line but I'm not sure.

4. Anybody ever owned or used a System X cocker before? If so, what are your thoughts on it? Pros and cons? And as far as the Xonik series, are those the higher end or lower end as far as System X markers?

Thanks in advance for the replies. I want to get as much feedback and info as I can so I would know whether I should hold onto it or let it go.
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Old 08-02-2011, 10:50 AM #2
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I just recently got the same gat. I paid a bit more, so yeah you got a deal.

1&2. Xonik are well made, but since they're "fake" or a "copy" etc, they aren't as valuable as the other brands. Your cocker, like mine, is a Vengeance 2.0 which means 2k3, I think.


4. I haven't played with mine yet, but I've worked on it a bit and timed it, and I love it, except for the ****ty stock board. I'm pretty sure they only made that one line of cockers, and they were all more or less the same, except they made them both mech and with the Xonik frame. System X's top of the line gun was the NME, a timmy clone.
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Old 08-02-2011, 12:30 PM #3
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Originally Posted by SomeoneWhoIsntMe View Post
I just recently got the same gat. I paid a bit more, so yeah you got a deal.

1&2. Xonik are well made, but since they're "fake" or a "copy" etc, they aren't as valuable as the other brands. Your cocker, like mine, is a Vengeance 2.0 which means 2k3, I think.


4. I haven't played with mine yet, but I've worked on it a bit and timed it, and I love it, except for the ****ty stock board. I'm pretty sure they only made that one line of cockers, and they were all more or less the same, except they made them both mech and with the Xonik frame. System X's top of the line gun was the NME, a timmy clone.
ACTUALLY.. their stock board is equivalent to the E1 with some better features like firing modes.
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Old 08-02-2011, 12:37 PM #4
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ACTUALLY.. their stock board is equivalent to the E1 with some better features like firing modes.
it has auto, classic, and semi, who cares. gun needs a ZeroB or E2 board.
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Old 08-02-2011, 12:50 PM #5
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it has auto, classic, and semi, who cares. gun needs a ZeroB or E2 board.
Was just saying the stock board is hardly '****ty'
What you seem to not be understanding is that when this gun was made (2002/3), the E1 was still competitive and PE was just developing the E2/Zb. WGP was still selling guns with the E1.
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Old 08-02-2011, 01:03 PM #6
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Was just saying the stock board is hardly '****ty'
What you seem to not be understanding is that when this gun was made (2002/3), the E1 was still competitive and PE was just developing the E2/Zb. WGP was still selling guns with the E1.
However, we're playing with them in 2011, are we not?
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Old 08-02-2011, 02:06 PM #7
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However, we're playing with them in 2011, are we not?
So why are you complaining about old technology?
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Old 08-02-2011, 02:56 PM #8
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So why are you complaining about old technology?
because the rest of the marker is hardly obsolete
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Old 08-02-2011, 04:27 PM #9
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Originally Posted by rgray80 View Post
Hey all,
1. How does the Xonik cockers fare up to other cockers in terms of quality and reliability? I know System X is out of business and its hard to find any information about them or their markers. Would the Xonik be near the top of the list or the bottom?

2. I bought this off a guy for $80. It's in excellent condition with no scratches anywhere. Do you think I got a good deal on it or did I get duped? What would be the current value for these?

3. The stock barrel looks custom. I wanted to get a longer tip but keep the System X back. Are these barrels interchangable with others? It looks very similar to the Dye UL barrel line but I'm not sure.

4. Anybody ever owned or used a System X cocker before? If so, what are your thoughts on it? Pros and cons? And as far as the Xonik series, are those the higher end or lower end as far as System X markers?

Thanks in advance for the replies. I want to get as much feedback and info as I can so I would know whether I should hold onto it or let it go.
1) System X 'cockers are decently well made, but the finish on them isn't the greatest I can still see machine lines where the body wasn't smoothed out before anodizing on my vengenace 4.0. On the upside, the xonik frame is a better looking (IMO) E1 with a board with some adjustments the E1 doesn't have and viceversa (Xonik doesn't have debounce if I'm not mistaken), If you plan on playing semi only it's a good board, though as with the E1 you will go through batteries fast, if you're looking for more fire modes and better battery life, you'll need a T-board, E2/ZeroB or Tadao yakuza.
Reliabilitywise, it's a 'cocker as long as you take care of it it'll take care of you. The pneus on it are (IMO) as good as the WGP pneus with one exception, the LPR has a huge air chamber when compared to the WGP LPR's, this will give you a better recharge rate as long as the LPR valve is within spec (downside is System X had dicy QC) and is properly maintained; I had my Vengeance 4.0 shooting 15 bps with an SF worrframe and pinching paint at the same time. That version xonik would be at the bottom of the electro spectrum for System X, they made this and other vengeance bodied xonik's and then they made the dragon bodied electros which are more intricately milled and then there was the NME and NME LE which was supposed to rival the alias line of timmies but System X cheaped out and made an in-between to the 2k2 and alias lines with an externally hosed LPR system based on the vengeance LPR's.

2) You did get a good deal, there is an appraisal thread at the top you might want to refer to, but take my word for it you got a really good deal.

3) As far as I know there are no other barrel systems that share System X's threading so it's either get a complete barrel or stick with this one and a sizer kit.

4) I've owned a vengeance 4.0 for almost 5 years now and it's been my go to mech (also own a BT-4 and used to own a spyder pilot ACS, which is technically an electro, but I'd use the vengeance over either one), it's been a mech and a blind electro, no problem (that was not caused by my compulsive need to tune it for the shortest trigger pull possible) either way. MY only gripes with the system X 'cockers are that they forced the marker to be LP by pairing a super soft valve spring and a regular mainspring, the marker is very quiet at the expense of air efficiency, I'm an efficiency freak so I had to re-spring it with a green maddman valve spring and the stock mainspring, it's still inefficient but not nearly as much and is still fairly quiet, sweetspotted at 250'ish PSI now, whereas stock springs gave me a 190'ish PSI sweetspot. And the other gripe is the non clamping feedneck which can easily be replaced with any aftermarket 'cocker threaded feedneck.
Xonik series 'cockers are made to the same specs as the mech System X 'cockers so they might not have the best finish but they should be on par with the the later WGP bodies, Dragon bodies however would be considered the higher end System X bodies because of the milling.

My suggestions:
You might want to get a spring kit, a barrel under .682 bore or a barrel or sizer kit and a clamping feedneck (STO/2k2 timmy thread).
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Old 08-02-2011, 05:42 PM #10
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System X barrels are interchangeable with CP barrels
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Old 08-02-2011, 07:51 PM #11
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Thanks for the replies! A new board would be a good investment. I did notice that the LPR is kinda large compared to the normal ones on WGP guns. Do you think that because the LPR is hooked up where the banjo bolt is that it doubles up as a low pressure chamber as well?
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Old 08-03-2011, 12:51 AM #12
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Well, look at the Palmer's rock and the KAPP LPR, they're gianormous, and very consistent and durable... so is the WGP Tickler, which is tiny compared to most. Just depends how the LPR is built and designed.


As far as the board it concerned, try finding a Used E2 v1.10, then swap out the optical sensor with a microswitch, you'll notice a much better feeling trigger that's snappier and it's be easier to shoot quickly and consistently. Or that's what I notice with everyone who has used an eclipse-style marker and moved over to the microswitch.

I'll be doing a conversion (again :/) on all my optical-senor'd boards to make them Microswitch'd.

Not much really needs to be upgraded on those cockers, but if you insist on upgrading, swap out the barrel back with a CP back with a bore smaller than a .684, then focus on replacing the Valve with something from PPS, Turtle, AKA (mah fav), or Maddmann. Look to replace the hammer and valve springs as well. Maddmann has a nice kit, or you can snag a CCM hammer spring, that way you can find a lighter hammer, which should help with overall smoothness, sound and consistency. When tuned properly with the said parts, you should also score some efficiency out of the cocker as well. Then I'd replace the Ram and LPR, again, Palmers and AKA really do it for a cost effective and high quality upgrade. Belsales (used in eclipse cockers) makes a phenomenal little Ram and LPR combo as well as a bolt, Rex Dialer (SOO Much better than an IVG) and valve kit, but they also cost a decent amount.
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Old 08-03-2011, 07:28 AM #13
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Thanks for the recommendations. I dont have any plans for any major upgrades. I like to keep things stock and matching. A new barrel is a good option. I do want to keep the back since it has the system x logo, Im just in need of a longer tip (that's why I was askin if these barrels were interchangable with any other barrel on the market). The optical sensor switch is new to me as I am mostly used to microswitches. Swapping out the board might be my only upgrade next to a longer barrel tip. The firing modes on this current board is somewhat limiting.
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Old 08-03-2011, 01:35 PM #14
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Be advised though, the System X board is made to slightly different specs than the eclipse boards and more often than not, the board needs a few mods to the frame to fit properly, you might want to consider a T-board with the microswitch on it it'll feel more familiar to you than the opto switch.

No need for a new valve, the only valves you'll see some improvement with would be the AKA and the maddman, the System X valve is just as good as any 2k+ valve; a spring kit and a cheapo valve tool I would recommend though, this would allow you to tune the marker to your liking, be it super quiet (stock), super smooth (soft mainspring, stock, soft or medium valve spring, medium valve spring will make it louder) or super efficient (soft mainspring, medium valve spring, contrary to most other markers you CAN get super smooth AND super efficient at the same time with 'cockers). The ram is just as good as WGP's STO ram (the one on mine is much smoother but I had to polish the piston to get there), QEV's are recommendable if you want to maximize ROF (if you're going for 20+ BPS) or want to take a variable out of tuning (the time it takes for the cocking 'noid to vent the exhaust). The Rex dialer kit is a matter of how much it's worth it to you not to have to take the cocking rod off to adjust the IVG, it's not needed but convenient to have.

The LPR is just that, an LPR, the volume of air the LPR holds is larger than most 'cocker LPR's though, which means the pressure drops less each time the LPR vents air, allowing for the LPR valve (once again, if properly maintained and within spec) to compensate the pressure drop in less time, meaning a faster recharge rate than LPR's of similar quality with less volume. If you ever decide to switch to an aftermarket LPR you'll also need a new front block and banjo to be able to fit the pneus in there.

If you're dead set on using the stock barrel back, you might want to consider the sizer kit I was telling you about, stock bore on System X back is .689, which is big by today's standards and will most likely give you rollouts when you point the marker down. the sizer kit fits in between the breech and the barrel to prevent that, there are a few kits out there, look for something that has sizers anywhere between .679 and .684, that should have you covered with most of nowadays' paint.

On a side note, the feedneck is too small for most of today's 20+ BPS loaders (halo, rotor, prophecy or magna, etc.) so you might want to consider getting a clamping feedneck or having the stock turned out on a lathe to accept wider necked loaders and while you're at it, a clamp band (hose clamp, bike seat clamp, check it products or CCM clamp, any clamp; I don't mind mine looking ghetto so I use a hose clamp, works on anything from a halo to a shake & shoot)
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Old 08-03-2011, 05:16 PM #15
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System X barrels are interchangeable with CP barrels
this is true ^
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Old 08-11-2011, 12:29 AM #16
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nice cocker

i have to say that is one fine cocker have fun with it
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Old 08-11-2011, 04:47 AM #17
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I, personally, would change the pneumatics and internals before anything else...
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Old 08-11-2011, 10:13 AM #18
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I, personally, would change the pneumatics and internals before anything else...
why would you do that? its a standard 3 way noid exatly the same as an eblade.the stock LPR is perfectly fine and more lowprofile. the ram is fery high quality and infact very smooth. the only internal piece you should change is the valve/cupseal. the system x valve has a weird sealing system the is prone to leaks after heavy use. its not a pump there is not reason to change the springs.
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Old 08-11-2011, 11:01 AM #19
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the only internal piece you should change is the valve/cupseal. the system x valve has a weird sealing system the is prone to leaks after heavy use. its not a pump there is not reason to change the springs.
Might be thinking of another type of valve, the 3 System-X 'cockers I've worked on (1 mine, 2 customers at the field I tech at) have a standard 2k+ cup seal in an aluminum valve with a single port on the top side, the valve face is identical to the one on my 2k5 prostock, I've been using my vengeance 4.0 for the last 5 years, both as a mech on HPA and CO2 and as an electro on HPA; it has yet to leak from the valve after extended use.

Reason I changed the stock springs in mine:
Horrible air efficiency, I got just under 650'ish shots out of a 68/3000 (that's about 1000 shots out of a 68/4500, I get over 1100 out of the same 68/3000 tank on my SR). I'd run AKA springs on all my 'cockers if I could afford it at this time.
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Old 08-11-2011, 03:14 PM #20
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That's one of the drawbacks I noticed on my marker...It eats gas like no other. If I shoot it rapid fire, I can literally see the needle on my gauge slowly go down, lol. What can I do to make it more efficient?
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Old 08-11-2011, 08:49 PM #21
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The cheapest way to do it is to sweetspot the regulator, it should sweetspot at about 220 PSI give or take 20 PSI it won't be that much help considering the stock springs will still make it forced LP.
The cheap way ($10'ish) is to change the stock springs for either a harder valve spring or a softer mainspring or do both. A maddman spring kit is what I used in mine, the most efficient combo in that kit for a standard 2k+ valve is soft mainspring (green, softer than the stock mainspring though slightly longer) with medium (blue, way harder than the stock) valve spring, you will need a valve tool to take the valve jam nut out if you intend to change the valve spring. You can also use a CCM spring kit or an AKA kit (either of which will work almost as well or better), this will get you to 1500-1700 shots out of a 68/4500 with the proper bore barrel (no rollouts).
If you don't mind spending a bunch you can get the AKA tornado valve with the AKA spring kit and have the marker shoot at least 1700 shots from a 68/4500 on a bad day, with the marker sweetspotting about where it is now, but done the right way, it should also keep the marker super smooth and super quiet. It'll run you over $70 brand new or you can search the BST for the valve and get the spring kit from AKA
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