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Old 07-31-2011, 09:51 PM #22
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I agree with what you are saying to a extent, I'm saying someone with lets say 40+ FB wakes up and decides he is going to quit paintballing and that he no longer cares about his pbnation account and figures he wants to get what he can for it. Now whats of more value to him his account or $1000 of gear that someone shipped first to him. Like it's not going to happen everyday but it is deffenitly possible. That is also going to push new users away from the site as they may not feel comfortable shipping their gear first. As with any selling or trading done on the site the best way to do it is whoever makes the thread that has the gear to trade ships last as you came to him, IF YOU DON'T FEEL COMFORTABLE SHIPPING TO HIM FIRST HIS GEAR IS NOT FOR YOU. I will be honest with you I am a 2k11'er and I would never scam anyone why should I be forced to ship first due to feedback when I put MY gear for trade? Like I said it all depends on the person. On a side note maybe Pbnation could do something to verify the users identity and link it to their account (such as paypal) and that way as long as both users are verifyed it really wouldn't matter who ships first (ex. make BST Trust mandatory).

"1 feedback from buying a squeegee….." Also what is keeping someone from buying 75 squeegees? They would have higher rep then most people in this case.
I can deff see your point. So are you saying, instead of making a feedback rule, a BST trust rule instead? Sounds better, just never even purchased it before.. Don’t have that kinda money to blow, though it isn’t much.
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Old 07-31-2011, 10:55 PM #23
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also depends on what is being sold/bought/traded.
if you have 30+ feedback all from buying barrels, lube, o-rings and selling stickers it wouldn't mean ****.
rule of thumb as long as they have 15-20 feeback as a seller for high end guns

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Old 07-31-2011, 11:15 PM #24
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lol i can't afford the highend guns yet

but if i'm buying something, i'll pay first, even if i have higher feedback, its just common sense to me kinda. even if i were to sell i would expect the buyer to pay me first, unless he has a ton more feedback
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Old 08-01-2011, 10:32 AM #25
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Originally Posted by paintballer14t View Post
I can deff see your point. So are you saying, instead of making a feedback rule, a BST trust rule instead? Sounds better, just never even purchased it before.. Don’t have that kinda money to blow, though it isn’t much.
Yes and I respect your counter arguement against this but the easiest way to make sure no one get scammed would be to somehow get the true identites of people and verify it on their account (not necessairly BST Trust) and lets say give them a verifyied badge. Or lets say even have them send eachother copies of their I.D.'s before the deal.

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lol i can't afford the highend guns yet

but if i'm buying something, i'll pay first, even if i have higher feedback, its just common sense to me kinda. even if i were to sell i would expect the buyer to pay me first, unless he has a ton more feedback
I 100% agree its when it comes to trades the shipping troubles come up.
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Old 08-01-2011, 11:09 AM #26
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Not everyone has state issued identification on this website, because of their age. It's a sticky situation, because no one wants to get scammed. I do, though, like the idea of a verification process. BST Trust is one method that could be expanded upon.
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Old 08-01-2011, 04:18 PM #27
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Not everyone has state issued identification on this website, because of their age. It's a sticky situation, because no one wants to get scammed. I do, though, like the idea of a verification process. BST Trust is one method that could be expanded upon.
Agreed. If there was something more to this, where the badge really meant 100% trust, I’d be content.
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Old 08-01-2011, 04:26 PM #28
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Agreed. If there was something more to this, where the badge really meant 100% trust, I’d be content.
Agreed as well
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Old 08-01-2011, 05:20 PM #29
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Here's my take on this issue: I may not have much feedback at all, but it's all positive; if you come to MY thread that means YOU are interested in MY item and I will expect YOU to ship first.

If I came to you I would do the same, assuming you had SOME kind of positive feedback.

If a person has less feedback than you and you're suspicious, don't go post in their thread. Avoid them and look elsewhere. I think that's pretty fair, the person initiating should not be able to call all the shots... imagine going into a new store and saying "Hello, I'd like to buy that TV, but I want you to load it in my car before I give you any money." That won't get you a TV.
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Old 08-01-2011, 06:25 PM #30
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Originally Posted by xXBloodLustACXx View Post
Here's my take on this issue: I may not have much feedback at all, but it's all positive; if you come to MY thread that means YOU are interested in MY item and I will expect YOU to ship first.

If I came to you I would do the same, assuming you had SOME kind of positive feedback.

If a person has less feedback than you and you're suspicious, don't go post in their thread. Avoid them and look elsewhere. I think that's pretty fair, the person initiating should not be able to call all the shots... imagine going into a new store and saying "Hello, I'd like to buy that TV, but I want you to load it in my car before I give you any money." That won't get you a TV.
This goes back to the previous point that in a store, the item is right there in front of you to test and inspect before paying, coming from a store that you can go to see in person.

I've never taken "you came to me, you ship first" comments seriously because they hold no merit unless positive feedback can be referenced. For example, if I'm a new member with no feedback, by your reasoning, I could demand that anybody making an offer on my threads ships first and that would be 'fair'. Without positive feedback to prove that I'm a reputable seller, I'm just a nuisance that expects other users to ship first despite my having no proof of legitimacy. To me, that's not just silly, it's disrespectful to other members because it says "I don't care that you spent a lot of time and effort building up your reputation here" and nobody likes to hear that. That being said, if potential buyers/traders immediately look to your feedback before even considering shipping first, such a comment is entirely meaningless and serves no other purpose than to waste space.
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Old 08-02-2011, 08:45 PM #31
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This goes back to the previous point that in a store, the item is right there in front of you to test and inspect before paying, coming from a store that you can go to see in person.

I've never taken "you came to me, you ship first" comments seriously because they hold no merit unless positive feedback can be referenced. For example, if I'm a new member with no feedback, by your reasoning, I could demand that anybody making an offer on my threads ships first and that would be 'fair'. Without positive feedback to prove that I'm a reputable seller, I'm just a nuisance that expects other users to ship first despite my having no proof of legitimacy. To me, that's not just silly, it's disrespectful to other members because it says "I don't care that you spent a lot of time and effort building up your reputation here" and nobody likes to hear that. That being said, if potential buyers/traders immediately look to your feedback before even considering shipping first, such a comment is entirely meaningless and serves no other purpose than to waste space.
I agree to an extent. I think it's situation-dependent. Having NO feedback at all should default you to shipping first, not arguing there. But what if I have +30 and a potential buyer has +50? In a case like that, you can tell I'm reputable and since you're the one who initiated the deal I think you should ship first.

Again, it depends on the situation, so this isn't something that can just be enforced across the board.
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Old 08-02-2011, 09:40 PM #32
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Also everyone seems to over-look the fact of where negative feedback and neutral feedback would come in here. This rule is a good idea don't get me wrong there but I can't see it being used for this site.
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Old 08-02-2011, 11:15 PM #33
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^ For me, that's an instant deal killer. It's not worth the risk or hassle. ^
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I agree to an extent. I think it's situation-dependent. Having NO feedback at all should default you to shipping first, not arguing there. But what if I have +30 and a potential buyer has +50? In a case like that, you can tell I'm reputable and since you're the one who initiated the deal I think you should ship first.

Again, it depends on the situation, so this isn't something that can just be enforced across the board.
There comes a point where both people have enough feedback that a smooth transaction can be expected. Personally, I've paid first for many purchases here when dealing with people in the 30+ positive ratings range. However, I cannot account for how being a mod affects the way people behave around me. It's possible that somebody that would ordinarily take a day or two extra to ship to an average user would make a point of shipping the same day I pay out of fear of repercussions. Knowing that the person you're dealing with can quickly acquire your IP address and any other information needed to file a promising police report can affect the way you treat them.

Receiving an offer on your b/s/t thread does not necessarily mean that the buyer acknowledges your legitimacy as a seller - it simply means that they are interested in what you are selling. If I offer on an Ego11 being sold by a member with only 15 feedback, that doesn't mean I trust them. I may have decided that I won't deal with them unless they ship first because I have significantly more feedback. Me posting a WTB thread that they respond to, or them posting a f/s thread that I respond to, makes no difference whatsoever in the way I perceive them and has no impact on their intentions. Scammers can make for sale threads or want to buy threads, or they can offer on existing threads, so it's obvious that who comes to who at the start of the deal (and who buys from who) is, as stated before, entirely meaningless.
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Old 08-03-2011, 12:24 AM #34
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^ For me, that's an instant deal killer. It's not worth the risk or hassle. ^

There comes a point where both people have enough feedback that a smooth transaction can be expected. Personally, I've paid first for many purchases here when dealing with people in the 30+ positive ratings range. However, I cannot account for how being a mod affects the way people behave around me. It's possible that somebody that would ordinarily take a day or two extra to ship to an average user would make a point of shipping the same day I pay out of fear of repercussions. Knowing that the person you're dealing with can quickly acquire your IP address and any other information needed to file a promising police report can affect the way you treat them.
Maybe it's just me, but I believe you put your pants on the same way as every other person on this forum, so I generally treat everyone the same. Each person is deserving of me to ship when I tell them I will, which depending on when the deal is settled should be within 24 hours if not much sooner... I guess it may be naive of me, however I believe most other people here are similar.
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Old 08-03-2011, 12:32 AM #35
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Maybe it's just me, but I believe you put your pants on the same way as every other person on this forum, so I generally treat everyone the same. Each person is deserving of me to ship when I tell them I will, which depending on when the deal is settled should be within 24 hours if not much sooner... I guess it may be naive of me, however I believe most other people here are similar.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think that makes me special or that I deserve special treatment. What I'm saying is that the difference in resources available to me can make transactions different. It's like police at restaurants. Some restaurants give out free food to officers while others spit in it and overcharge.
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Old 08-03-2011, 12:50 AM #36
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Don't get me wrong, I don't think that makes me special or that I deserve special treatment. What I'm saying is that the difference in resources available to me can make transactions different.
I know what you meant... And too true... I guess my point was more that people just need to have respect regardless of whether the person is in a position of authority. Unfortunately we can't rely on that, though.


Quote:
It's like police at restaurants. Some restaurants give out free food to officers while others spit in it and overcharge.
That's just.... special sauce
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Old 08-03-2011, 10:13 AM #37
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I know what you meant... And too true... I guess my point was more that people just need to have respect regardless of whether the person is in a position of authority. Unfortunately we can't rely on that, though.


That's just.... special sauce
Exactly.
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