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Old 07-22-2011, 11:59 AM #1
Pnuemagger
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Stacked Tube Excal... (not viking)

OK, I know it's not a CAD... but I shooped YDNA's Excal animation (which I assume is based on an accurate cad rendering) so I think my idea should be feasible. It should be able to fit into a Merlin Extrusion.

1) Move LPR to front of botom tube. A JDS or AKA 'cocker LPR would be easiest.

2) Shorten bolt and shorten the front and back of rammer cartridge. Bolt will thread directly into cartrige ram.

3) Add 2 orings and 2 airflow grooves to the outside of bolt cartridge. Also add a slot/hole for a spyder-style pin retention.

4) Add two airflow passages around the hammer cartridge. Existing orings will already seal these.

5) typical placement of tornado valve, spring, and front cap (drilled 1/8NPT for LPR) will be in the bottom tube.

6) twin air LP passages drilled from the back of the marker will allow two base mounted MAC 43 solenoids (only 8mm wide) to sit side by side feeding air directly up towards the body into the cartridges. Each Solenoid will have it's own air supply directly from the LPR... the LPR will feed air into twin holes drilled into the front of the body. Once the passages reach the frame, simple 3/32 barb fittings & hose will complete the LP air path to the middle M3 port on the bottom of the Mac 43 noids.

I figure since the cratridges are internally unmodified that with an AKA or STD lpr and HPR the marker should function identically to an excal. Heck, everything except the frame and bolt tip would be AKA parts. I think it should be totally possible.

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Old 07-22-2011, 04:27 PM #2
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Don't forget an alignment pin for the bolt if you want to go with that style. Gotta keep it from twisting out of alignment with the main transfer port.

Other than that, should work nicely.
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Old 07-22-2011, 06:52 PM #3
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i was thinking of a stacked tube excal, although i think mine is a little more.... elegant.
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Old 07-23-2011, 01:16 AM #4
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Oh god, the things I would do to see this work out.

If there was a way to make stacked-tube closed-bolt variants of all stacked tube poppet markers... ohohohoh.
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Old 07-23-2011, 02:04 AM #5
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well, with a valve I have in mind...

then again, it'd be the same thing in just different looking bodies.
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Old 07-25-2011, 04:05 PM #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by new ion? View Post
i was thinking of a stacked tube excal, although i think mine is a little more.... elegant.
I was just thinking about how cool you are too! Sometimes I wonder if we're wasting our time thinking about how great you are; when it's obvious and everyone already knows. But you have a way of validating us just when I've almost given up. Thank you.

What if you made the bottom tube outrageously long, and installed the hammer/valve assembly "backwards" from the front. and put the bolt rammer back where it belongs in the bottom tube? modding it for the top tube sounds like a nightmare.

It would keep the stack height down, allow for pull through cleaning, and give the valve better flow (not making a 180 turn). Does it really matter if the bottom tube is long? I don't think the side profile is nearly as important as a good stack height, and the weight/profile would be more then compensated for by a set back hopper. Also if you use aka "grip and reg spacing" it would be easy to sneak a (readily available)cocker lpr with an extra outlet tapped in it between them. Perhaps you could use this space for a vertical MM behind the reg with the lpr tapped into the end to manage the length. My $.02.
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Old 07-25-2011, 05:24 PM #7
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I'd worry about getting adequate chamber volume with the 2 cylinders both occupying the same bottom tube. Unless you can add some chamber volume in the frame somehow.
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Old 07-25-2011, 06:47 PM #8
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I was just thinking about how cool you are too! Sometimes I wonder if we're wasting our time thinking about how great you are; when it's obvious and everyone already knows. But you have a way of validating us just when I've almost given up. Thank you.

What if you made the bottom tube outrageously long, and installed the hammer/valve assembly "backwards" from the front. and put the bolt rammer back where it belongs in the bottom tube? modding it for the top tube sounds like a nightmare.

It would keep the stack height down, allow for pull through cleaning, and give the valve better flow (not making a 180 turn). Does it really matter if the bottom tube is long? I don't think the side profile is nearly as important as a good stack height, and the weight/profile would be more then compensated for by a set back hopper. Also if you use aka "grip and reg spacing" it would be easy to sneak a (readily available)cocker lpr with an extra outlet tapped in it between them. Perhaps you could use this space for a vertical MM behind the reg with the lpr tapped into the end to manage the length. My $.02.
lol.

why don't you consider a valve other than a hammer/poppit?

sure it's not a 'true' stacked excal per se, but i think it'd be more 'true' to the form factor of a stacked pull pin bolt
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Old 07-25-2011, 07:05 PM #9
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perhaps a vertical mighty max behind the regulator... Where an inch is the norm, and round is sound.

The internals are almost entirely constrained to the 16 inches of tube they were designed for, pre regulated air (both hp and lp) are the only aspects in which length can be saved from combining the two tubes.

On that note... Backwards mq? One less 4 way.
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Old 07-25-2011, 07:21 PM #10
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mq's are quite long... and need to vent to atmosphere.
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Old 07-25-2011, 07:31 PM #11
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Dude, I suggest you take up the guitar. You can listen to the sound of your own voice all day, and someday somebody might listen.
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Old 07-25-2011, 08:01 PM #12
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wow bud. just trying to help out. obviously you got something shoved up your own *** that makes you think your on some high horse above the rest of us...

a custom made PCP would work well for this. again, not a true excal (there was one made to run with an mQ....), but you can move the solenoid to the frame, which shortens the firing valve, allowing you to move the bolt ram to the bottom tube.
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Old 07-25-2011, 08:15 PM #13
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cool redesign, wouldn't the lpr be slightly asthmatic feeding 2 solenoids/actuators?
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Old 07-25-2011, 08:37 PM #14
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You came in here stroking your ego and patronizing maggger's layout without contributing anything. I called you out on it, and in an haphazard attempt to legitimize your presence in a thread you insist on being the most prolific poster in, you palpably contributed the only things you could think of, and get defensive. Brash.

Your right, I'm being a dick about it.
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Old 07-25-2011, 08:40 PM #15
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cool redesign, wouldn't the lpr be slightly asthmatic feeding 2 solenoids/actuators?
A single palmers micro rock (with 3 outlets) ran "the grinder" (3 blazers with a firestorm crank doing 20bps each 60bps total).
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Old 07-25-2011, 10:04 PM #16
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Pretty nice idea, I had a similar design I wanted to make awhile back, but I had to use a manifold on the outside of the body to channel the air from the solenoid to the top ram. I like the way you've solved that here, wish I had thought of it. Now if you can figure out how to work it with out the hoses, that'd be awesome.

Why not go with an MQ in the bottom tube, and a ram in the top tube, then you'd just have one solenoid for the LPR to feed. You could also then pick whatever solenoid you want so you can have the inlet on the same side as the outlets, letting you run the LP air passage through the body to the solenoid, eliminating hoses. The MQ and the spacer would have to be a little custom with orings and such so you can direct the air from the solenoid through the bottom tube up into the ram in the top tube, but I think it might be possible.
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Old 07-25-2011, 10:28 PM #17
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The bottom tube would be way too short for all that **** to fit in there , unless your getting a non traditional length Merlin extension
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Old 07-25-2011, 11:50 PM #18
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okay, going this route, you could nix the vertical stabilizing pin for the bolt by using a more shocker sport style bolt... a more modern usage would be the F8's stock bolt.
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Old 07-26-2011, 11:23 AM #19
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What I would do if I were you would be 1) Modify an mQ2 to be ran by a 3-way solenoid housed in the grip frame and 2) put the bolt ram in the bottom tube then 3) chop off most of the top tube like a midblocked cocker or viking.

The advantage of doing it this way would of course be less weight but you probably would get better efficiency off of the mQ2. The faster a poppit can open and close, the more efficient it is. By modifying it to run off a 3-way you can plug the hole that runs through the middle of the poppit.
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Old 07-26-2011, 12:21 PM #20
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The problem is not fitting an MQ in the lower tube... even with the noid housed under the body. The rear cartridge has to have enough room to reciprocate the bolt. So you can't just cram a cartridge behind the MQ but you'll need about 1-1.25 inches in front of the cartridge for the piston to reciprocate. Also, keep in mind that you'll likely need some sort of LP chamber on the front or have the front of the lower tube bored out for more volume because most solenoids limit you to about 225 PSI max for long term reliable operation.

Although, what you describe, might be a design path for this marker. I considered it but I think the twin ram setup should work just fine. Personally, if I'm going to dick around with an MQ or anything like that I'll just make the bolt blowforward (like an aedes). Then there's no bolt cycle ram to worry about.


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Old 07-26-2011, 06:57 PM #21
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yea it's true it wouldn't be quite as short as a normal hammer/valve marker... but you could move the firing valve forward more (your other thread has more on this) which would shorten the entire marker...

as for low pressure air, could you not run hoses or a cyborg lpr? some of the stacked viking boys are running a slightly modified 06 (i think) 'borg lpr, although the evil m extrusions are slightly similar.

as for the twin ram setup, you may want to look at a more spool style setup for the bolt - less air to vent means faster cycling...
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