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Old 04-25-2012, 09:54 PM #1
Istobla
 
 
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.50 cal is inovation

It is fascinating to read the pro/con discussion of 50 cal paint and i feel the need to express my opinion on it. This is the internet, it is allowed. I think 50 cal is innovation where it is needed. It is some thing new(ish) and something new can only succeed if it is better in some way than what was before. For anyone afraid of being forced to change or quit, remember, it can only cause that kind of change if it becomes better than 68 in practically every way. Which it won't, so stop pissing your selves about it. It is an option, and options are good!

The only reason it has become anything i care about is that the local field i play at runs a full rental fleet of Spyder Opus markers. This means i can get 50 cal paint there if i had a 50 cal marker, so ill be real happy when my FM50 arrives in a week or so. I like to run lite, tight, and to the front, and i think the only battery in my marker should be on my red dot sight.

50 cal has some great advantages for me. it is smaller, so my 50 round hopper holds 75 or more. It is cheaper, but at only 500 rounds for a day of playing, it is not a deciding factor. The guns being cheaper is a bigger factor. the Opus being 70$(and i swear i saw it somewhere for 50) is sweet for anyone wanting a starter gun, a rental fleet or a few loner guns for friends. Also for modders, big koodos to the first to convert one to a spring fed pistol or bullpup PDW.

It has flaws to, but for me, not so much of a big deal. they are very close to the same out to 60 feet, and if i am shooting at you from further than that, it is to keep you hiding while i get closer. It is kind of like the movement from rifle to assault rifle that started in world war 2. the standard round, much like the typical 30 cal hunting rifle round, was powerful, deadly at great distances, and a waste of power in all but the most skilled hands or in large numbers SAW style. Smaller rounds became the norm for armed infantry conflict, most notably the 5.56 nato and 7.62x39mm. It really wasnt a factor of velocity but energy and the power to impart that energy. So, smaller is better especially when a bullet takes you out of the fight at any size. Kind of like paint ball.

I want to see innovation in paintball. i think 50 cal could make for some interesting ones. we had kind of maxed out with 68 in a lot of ways, in the low end mechanical, everything was functional like a spyder or a tippmann. i would love to see a Phenom valve scaled for 50 cal. or a zeus type pistol using the spyder valve, getting 60-75 shots of a 12 gram. I also think that if this works, it paves the way for more innovation. I would love to see an 86 cal marker for long ball shots. that would knock you on your @$$! That would be the kind of round to chamber a 50 cal BMG looking marker for.

Thank you for reading, and i patiently await your comments and rebuttal. This is the internet, it it allowed.
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Old 04-26-2012, 04:21 AM #2
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I am not really sure why I keep looking at the 50 cal posts. There is no major push for 50 cal anymore, and in all honesty it has died, in my humble opinion.

That being said, it was a good time to see some arm-chair physics and some intelligence from people, but for every one intelligent post came fifteen moronic posts.
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Old 04-26-2012, 04:45 AM #3
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damn i wanted to try the 50 cal paint to bad..
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Old 04-26-2012, 04:49 AM #4
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You still can, but it is very limited and you will need to do a little bit of digging. It is not buried, just brushed aside.
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Old 04-26-2012, 12:12 PM #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Istobla View Post
I think 50 cal is innovation where it is needed


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:

Innovation is the creation of better or more effective products, processes, services, technologies, or ideas that are accepted by markets, governments, and society.

Sorry, I'm just not seeing it...
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Old 04-26-2012, 06:13 PM #6
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there are many definitions of innovation, which the continuation of that page. I was working from a less ridged definition.
"Innovation,
Noun
1) The action or process of innovating: innovation is crucial to the continuing success of any organization
2) A new method, idea, product, etc.:"
Innovation is merely trying something new. It is something that is too rare in paintball in my opinion, but it is there, and i think 50 cal gets the worst brunt of apposing force only because it is being put forward by such big names, Spyder, the big guy in entry markers, and GI milsim, which so many seem to treat like it is being guided by the ghost of Smart Parts.
The First strike round is innovation. Golf ball like dimples on wax shell powder filled paint balls is innovation. Electropneumatic markers were once innovative. They didnt kill the JABB markers though.
50 cal in innovative, spyder is trying something new and it might bring more fun into the game we all love. I mean I assume you love paintball because you are reading this. Anyway, it is like the Antithesis of the first strike round, small, light, and if it catches on in large enough numbers, cheap. First strike rounds could come down in price a lot if production was for a demand a thousand times bigger like paintballs are.
Innovation does not have to be a 100 percent improvement. Some thing gained for something lost is fair. All other things are uncertain but i can put a certain pro for a certain con. You do get a lot more shots in a pod or hopper of equal size, but for that you accept a shorter effective range. Die hard long ballers and "snipers" need not try it, its not for you. I like battles in built up fields, building to building fighting. I like my pistols. 50 cal is like an smg. for me it will be like going from a colt 1911 to a p90. you dont try to do with a smg what you would with a rifle.
My view on the marketing of 50 is a positive one. I am happy to see new players being seen as a valid market, rather than making gadgets to sell to the guy with 15 markers already. If you make it interesting enough, he'll buy it anyway. The opus is a good, solid, metal, cheap and relatively reliable from what i have seen, paint throwing device. The 50 cal broke fine enough on me last sunday. It'll likely be the next marker i buy, so i can put a 12 gram quick change and a 20 round spring feed on it and have another unique pistol. But i digress.
50 cal is new and deserves a fair chance. I know if i was starting a field with rentals, when you compare the price of an Opus to a 98c, and the price of paint and the air efficiency. 50 cal would be where i would go.
More importantly i want to see more innovation. RAP4 should use their wax and powder concoction to make a round for first strike guns. Someone should design a bullet type round 50 cal but the length of 68 and make mag conversion kits for popular markers. And i still want to see a jumbo paintball sniper rifle in 86 cal.
Innovation is a complicated word and a powerful force.
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Old 04-27-2012, 02:58 PM #7
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Seriously, I have to admire your dedication and perseverance.

You also can spell and you use your shift key, which makes me take you much more seriously.

I could possibly see .50 maybe being a good venue for the younger kids, like 7 to 12. I've seen too many little guys leave the field in tears after taking their first round in a tender spot like under an arm or in the neck. They might not ever play again. .50 is lighter mass, which reportedly hurts less. It's also less weight for the little fellas to tote around for the same amount of ammo.

Pistols are also a platform that might benefit from the smaller size round.

BUT-- You have to make it sell though, that's where it will be tough. There has to be enough market for it to self-replicate and grow.
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Old 04-28-2012, 01:45 PM #8
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50 cal is new
No, it is not new. .50 has been around for a LONG time (in paintball terms). It didn't catch on for general use for a reason. However, with the shorter ranges in indoor, .50 is a viable option there. The lesser mess is also of value for indoor. If it had been marketed primarily for indoor and for the European and Japanese markets where joules may bring a marker into the definition of a firearm.

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Old 04-28-2012, 04:59 PM #9
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That is why in the second line of my first post I call it "new(ish)" referring to the fact it had been used in many ways, but not like this. Using it in the way spyder is doing, in the common hopper fed pneumatic marker style, is new and different than things like the Crossman 3357 or the spring powered Splat Master.
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Old 04-28-2012, 05:38 PM #10
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50 cal came back into style (not really) only because some companies in the PB industry hit a wall and could not figure out how to sell more .68 cal gear.

It is not innovative. It is only there to generate sales of retrofit kits, crappy paint, and new guns and hoppers.
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Old 04-28-2012, 09:00 PM #11
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50 cal came back into style (not really) only because someone in the PB industry hit a non-compete agreement and could not sell .68 cal paint.
Ficksed that for ya.
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Old 04-28-2012, 09:11 PM #12
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.50 is great for places like japan that have laws banning things flying at certain energies. .50 at 300 fps is way below .68 at 280 in terms of energy transferred, so it opens up possibilities for paintball to reach other countries where everything is stricter.
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Old 04-28-2012, 09:37 PM #13
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.50 is great for places like japan that have laws banning things flying at certain energies. .50 at 300 fps is way below .68 at 280 in terms of energy transferred, so it opens up possibilities for paintball to reach other countries where everything is stricter.
This is the same country that has vending machines that dispense used panties. They can keep this 50 cal bull****.
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Old 04-29-2012, 01:00 PM #14
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not used panties. they sell complete clothing out of certain vending machines, and there aren't that many.
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Old 04-29-2012, 03:26 PM #15
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not used panties. they sell complete clothing out of certain vending machines, and there aren't that many.
Yes used panties. Not sure if they still do, but I know they did at one point.
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Old 04-29-2012, 07:05 PM #16
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I can see in the future a more union between the .68 and .50 by companies expanding there market and creating a wider vareity of gear by making there hpa/co2 valves more instantly compatible for the 2 by making or selling a either adjustable or seperate low cost bolts that can be easily changed/adjusted for 50./.68 cal use. And the only other object/item that should have to be changed would be the barrel of course. That would also create a boost in promotion and oppurtonity for companies to make more money of gear. That would lead to a larger "unity" between the two in popularity. in My personal opinion i would hate that and i like how there is only one main caliber paintball and almost never have to worry about what i bought and if it will work well
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Old 04-29-2012, 07:40 PM #17
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I can see in the future a more union between the .68 and .50 by companies expanding there market and creating a wider vareity of gear by making there hpa/co2 valves more instantly compatible for the 2 by making or selling a either adjustable or seperate low cost bolts that can be easily changed/adjusted for 50./.68 cal use. And the only other object/item that should have to be changed would be the barrel of course.
Negative. The breech also requires a sizer, and that affects the eyes as well as the feedneck. A hopper sized for .68 requires conversion to handle .50 competently. I supposed the detents could be incorporated into the breech sizer, but detents akin to those on Automag twistlock barrels seem like a better idea for conversion kits. However, once you do all that, the weight advantage of a .50 marker over that of a .68 is defeated.

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Old 04-30-2012, 01:36 PM #18
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I can see in the future a more union between the .68 and .50 by companies expanding there market and creating a wider vareity of gear by making there hpa/co2 valves more instantly compatible for the 2 by making or selling a either adjustable or seperate low cost bolts that can be easily changed/adjusted for 50./.68 cal use. And the only other object/item that should have to be changed would be the barrel of course. That would also create a boost in promotion and oppurtonity for companies to make more money of gear.
With what money? The companies that remain open for business are strapped for cash.
Also, for what market? Nobody wants a ball that shoots less far and doesn't break.
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Old 04-30-2012, 06:27 PM #19
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the market is low as is the problem with .50 cal. a ball that shoots shorter and doesnt break is the basic cons to .50 cal. I am new to .50 cal and decided to come here for a matter of interest and explore the other side of paintball. And as earlier posted by custar he conveniantly posted about automags. This is the type of gun i have and was imagining all of this about. If you own a mag then you should know about the valve where everything is interchangebel and you would simply have to change the brass bore size for the bolt for a custom bolt and there you have a easily converted valve. In reply about barrels they could simply make barrels in a sort of reverse ported shape and would start out standard and would simply get shorter as it would go and it would have to be done quickly and at the appropiate angle to give it a good effectiveness without greatly diminishing the effectiveness.i hope you guys are getting the same picture i am in this. And whan it comes to valves all they know there doing is putting out a regulated amount of pressure and once set into appropiate terms could be regulated at the same basic fps of a .68 but for a .50. When it comes to feednecks it would be based on production and price. The more they make the less it should cost to a certain extent. It would only be proper and effective marketing if the same company that did all of that with the valve would come out with feed neck adapters for the guns. i am new to .50 cal and i simply came here to express my thoughts,ideas and wanted to see the other side of paintball. That is the main problem with .50 cal which is marketing this is assuming it suddenly jumps in popularity and it establishes a new market for a appropiate large production of the type. And as said before about the .86 cal I think there would be a sudden jump in popularity in that and would love to see it. But it being a new caliber it would take on all of the same challenges as 50 cal but would have an opposite market for the bigger cal. That would be what true snipers are looking for and the only problem blocking them like the .50 cal is the gigantic widely used feild paint only rule. That i think when it comes to market not gun compatibility is the biggest obstical to overcome and would encourage wider use and bring it up front and let players see what its like.

Please correct me but not in an insulting manner i am always ready to know more about paintball.
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Old 05-01-2012, 01:11 PM #20
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And as said before about the .86 cal I think there would be a sudden jump in popularity in that and would love to see it. But it being a new caliber it would take on all of the same challenges as 50 cal but would have an opposite market for the bigger cal. That would be what true snipers are looking for and the only problem blocking them like the .50 cal is the gigantic widely used feild paint only rule. That i think when it comes to market not gun compatibility is the biggest obstical to overcome and would encourage wider use and bring it up front and let players see what its like.
While it .86 sounds like a novel idea, it cannot be done. .68 was chosen because it was the largest ball that would not break bones. Anything bigger was breaking pinky fingers and such.
Besides, the insurance companies would never go for it.
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Old 05-01-2012, 06:20 PM #21
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While it .86 sounds like a novel idea, it cannot be done. .68 was chosen because it was the largest ball that would not break bones. Anything bigger was breaking pinky fingers and such.
Besides, the insurance companies would never go for it.
Thanks for the info Forgot about that. i do think however a bit more off topic which i might actually make a thread about where will you see the most and next innovation coming in paintball. We will probably simply change the form of the paintball much like the first strike round to increase accuracy and such.
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