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View Poll Results: Should we raise the debt ceiling
Sure it's no big deal 16 38.10%
NO, cut the ****ing spending, we have enouh income, we simply spend to much. 26 61.90%
Voters: 42. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-15-2011, 11:19 PM #22
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Originally Posted by Matt.is.back2011 View Post
Yes but where the money goes first and who gets paid first is a discussion this nation has never had to make before. Our credit rating and currency would devalue quickly, and discussions could lead to if the American dollar should still be the world's backed currency.......
I got news for you our currency already has devalued quickly, and people are already questioning the American dollar as the world's backed currency. Ever heard of B.R.I.C.S. before?

Ben Bernanke has already began prepping the markets for QE3............
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Old 07-15-2011, 11:25 PM #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpigs58 View Post
I got news for you our currency already has devalued quickly, and people are already questioning the American dollar as the world's backed currency. Ever heard of B.R.I.C.S. before?

Ben Bernanke has already began prepping the markets for QE3............
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Old 07-16-2011, 12:29 AM #24
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When up against the zero lower bound its pretty effective

http://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/...multiplier.pdf
This assumes that monetary policy is useless when up against the zero lower bound. I have seen nothing in the main debates to suggest this, and plenty to suggest otherwise.

Then we get into the public choice aspects, and it's obvious that fiscal stimulus has shaky evidence supporting it's efficacy, and the fact that it requires a political miracle to be successful by the Keynesians own standards, monetary all da way.


edit: Well his last sentence is semi-correct. The problem is the Fed basically supports consensus views within econ, and sadly quasi-monetarism/monetary disequilibrium theory hasn't been influential enough.
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Old 07-16-2011, 01:41 AM #25
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Originally Posted by Warpigs58 View Post
I got news for you our currency already has devalued quickly, and people are already questioning the American dollar as the world's backed currency. Ever heard of B.R.I.C.S. before?

Ben Bernanke has already began prepping the markets for QE3............


Fed is wrapping up QE2 and is in no place to issue QE3.
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Old 07-16-2011, 01:57 AM #26
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Bernanke said he is prepared to if markets continue to look bad.

Then the Dow jumped a ****load of points.

Then the KC fed president said the fed has exhausted all its means, and the point jump was lost. interesting.
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Old 07-16-2011, 02:28 AM #27
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Bernanke said he is prepared to if markets continue to look bad.

Then the Dow jumped a ****load of points.

Then the KC fed president said the fed has exhausted all its means, and the point jump was lost. interesting.
KC fed president is historically that way. Look at his history.
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Old 07-16-2011, 02:37 AM #28
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KC fed president is historically that way. Look at his history.
I know that. Merely pointing out how the market seems to enjoy the prospect of more quantititative easing. Doesn't increase the deficit, has real benefits to workers, and it's much easier to convince the fed than it is to convince congress.
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Old 07-16-2011, 02:42 PM #29
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Real benefits like inflation?
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Old 07-17-2011, 01:50 PM #30
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Guys, raising the debt limit is too disastrous. Defaulting and lowering our federal credit ratings is the only positive outcome.
So you agree with Obama too, then.
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Old 07-17-2011, 10:51 PM #31
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Obama and probably 80% of respected economists. Poisoning the well is a ****ty argument.
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Old 07-18-2011, 01:26 AM #32
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Why no matter how deep the country digs itself into debt can we talk about cutting defense spending?
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Old 07-18-2011, 01:34 AM #33
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wait what?
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Old 07-18-2011, 10:41 AM #34
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Why no matter how deep the country digs itself into debt can we talk about cutting defense spending?
Then we wouldn't rule the world bra
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Old 07-18-2011, 12:26 PM #35
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Why no matter how deep the country digs itself into debt can we talk about cutting defense spending?
Because then terrorists would be knocking on everyone's front doors.
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Old 07-18-2011, 12:39 PM #36
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Because then terrorists would be knocking on everyone's front doors.
Let 'em come.

Rifle behind every blade of grass, and all that.
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Old 07-18-2011, 11:05 PM #37
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While we are all arguing about the deficit, look where chunks of the "economic stimulus and recovery act" money went. In Louisiana, 68 percent went to welfare, medicaid, head start and EBT cards. Sound plan guys, give a bunch of money to the people who produce nothing in hopes and somehow the economy will be fixed.
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Old 07-19-2011, 03:06 PM #38
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Guys, didn't you hear? Spending creates long term stability and growth. Savings and investment are shams perpetuated by the rich to stay rich and make the poor poorer. Debt doesn't matter at all as long as 70+% of our gdp is spending!
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Old 07-19-2011, 07:46 PM #39
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This assumes that monetary policy is useless when up against the zero lower bound. I have seen nothing in the main debates to suggest this, and plenty to suggest otherwise.

Then we get into the public choice aspects, and it's obvious that fiscal stimulus has shaky evidence supporting it's efficacy, and the fact that it requires a political miracle to be successful by the Keynesians own standards, monetary all da way.


edit: Well his last sentence is semi-correct. The problem is the Fed basically supports consensus views within econ, and sadly quasi-monetarism/monetary disequilibrium theory hasn't been influential enough.
The only valid argument here is that fiscal stimulus is difficult to pass through congress, which is true. However that doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

and no, the paper isn't commenting on the usefulness of monetary policy against the zero lower bound (even though the fact that we've reached it speaks volumes about it). The paper is merely pointing out that the government spending multiplier is large in this scenario.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Watterson View Post
I know that. Merely pointing out how the market seems to enjoy the prospect of more quantititative easing. Doesn't increase the deficit, has real benefits to workers, and it's much easier to convince the fed than it is to convince congress.
The market enjoyed the prospects of fiscal stimulus too and the low interest rates and increases in GDP would mean the real cost of stimulus would be small too (have no impact on our long term fiscal outlook)

go figure

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Old 07-19-2011, 08:17 PM #40
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What's the point of a ceiling if we can just raise it whenever we feel like it?

Instead of worrying about how much we're allowed to spend, why don't we focus on trying to spend less?
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Old 07-19-2011, 08:18 PM #41
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I made that point earlier. It's useless (except as a political tool)
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Old 07-19-2011, 08:20 PM #42
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I made that point earlier. It's useless (except as a political tool)
That's basically my point. It's arbitrary bull**** that takes up the government's time and prevents them from actually doing anything....surprise.

We're talking about it because the Republicans need something to talk about: "We tried to cut spending by not raising the debt ceiling but the Democrats did X. VOTE FOR US 2012!!!!!"

The partisan bull**** needs to stop.
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