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Old 07-13-2011, 06:50 PM #127
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WTF... Someone ban that idiot spam bot.....
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Old 07-13-2011, 08:21 PM #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StellarKnight View Post
You want restraint on self-interested politicians? Elect people like Ron Paul, people who are principled and intend to stand by those principles. The only way to liberate ourselves form self-interested politicians is to not allow them to become politicians. Unfortunately, we don't elect people based on their propensity to remain principled; we elect them based on what they promise to do. We elect politicians, not statesmen, so we get exactly what we asked for.
But is that truly a good thing? Unbending ideological politicians are almost by definition going to find it difficult to find consensuses. The rightward radicalization of congress is the source of a lot of the dysfunction right now, with a few ideological players holding the larger group of consensusbuilders hostage.

Under the current system, ideological radicalization has many drawbacks. Things like senatorial holds need to be done away with so that a small number of ideological nutjobs (so to speak) can't run the whole show.

Furthermore, what if "facts on the ground" prove a given ideology wrong? Do we want politicians that are unable to change to address the new facts? That's what has caused a lot of the problems we face today as a nation.
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Old 07-14-2011, 12:43 AM #129
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Generally agree with this, except for the Ron Paul part. He's brought home just as much pork as any other politician - more so in fact than most. Sure pork isn't the main driver of spending, but it's a fairly sound indication of where your heart is.

As for the ceiling, yeah it's been raised over and over, but it at least gives us some sort of benchmark to see just how out of control our fiscal mess actually is. I think that the fact that it's been repeatedly raised says more about the pols we've put in office than the legitimacy of the ceiling itself.
yeah care to provide an objective source that supports your claims about Paul?

Also, I'd love to see a chart comparing his offices efficiency and spending compared to other GOP members.
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Old 07-14-2011, 01:05 AM #130
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I can appreciate where you're ostensibly coming from, but it's too little too late. This whole "won't someone think of the children" sentiment that seems to be coming out of the woodwork from the Boomer generation is bogus, especially considering that that what we're currently seeing is the product of decades of poor decisions made at the hand of the Baby Boomer voters. Where were these cries during the last 30 years? They were few and far between because the Boomer generation was relishing in their own shortsightedness.
It may be too little too late, but I'm not ready to throw in the towel just yet. I think we need to see where they go with the debt ceiling debate. Let's see just how much courage our leaders have. What's more, let's see the level of courage and commitment our own citizenry have and what they're willing to sacrifice without turning on each other.

We can look as far back as the New Deal, if we want to start laying blame for the current predicament. You're right, we saw the warning signs (the actuaries have warned us for years), but chose to ignore them.

The instinct to preserve a future for our children is one of the nobler aspects of our, sometimes nefarious, human nature. When we give up on sentiments such as this, then we really have to come to grips with what we've become. If the whole "won't someone think of the children" argument seems trite and self-serving to the more cynical, then by extension, the future ceases to have any real meaning. With no hope for the future, what will happen to whatever humanity we have left?

The choice is simple, fix it now or we drive ourselves over the proverbial cliff and leave our progeny to pick up the pieces.
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Old 07-14-2011, 01:21 AM #131
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Just a PSA: The New Deal was far more statist than most of Obama's policies.
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Old 07-14-2011, 01:28 PM #132
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Ben Bernanke:

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WASHINGTON (AP) -- Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke says lawmakers would end up increasing the federal deficit if they fail to raise the nation's borrowing limit in time to avoid a default.

Republicans have held up an increase in the borrowing limit after expressing concerns of growing spending that has widened the federal deficits. But Bernanke says a failure to boost the borrowing limit would amount to a "self-inflicted" wound. That's because it would drive up interest costs on the $14.3 trillion debt and reduce government revenues by slowing economic growth.

The government hit its borrowing limit in May. The Treasury Department says it will default on its debt if the limit is not raised by Aug. 2.
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Old 07-14-2011, 04:14 PM #133
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Originally Posted by Bill Watterson View Post
yeah care to provide an objective source that supports your claims about Paul?

Also, I'd love to see a chart comparing his offices efficiency and spending compared to other GOP members.
Please do your own googling.
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Old 07-14-2011, 05:39 PM #134
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haha nice job losing credibility. You'll ask me to provide sources, and I can, but you ask others to google your biased claims.
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Old 07-14-2011, 09:42 PM #135
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No. I have better things to do that your homework. If you're going to sit here and question my crediblity without even spending 2 minutes googling you're going to look pretty silly yourself when I source you with common knowledge that you were just to lazy and biased to find for yourself.
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Old 07-15-2011, 12:49 AM #136
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Says the guy who tried to dispute that the majority of illegals are good people, and then mockingly asked for a source. chyeah.
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Old 07-15-2011, 01:22 AM #137
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Google it yet?
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Old 07-15-2011, 01:26 AM #138
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Yes. Twice now. Haven't found anything.

You're trying too hard.

edit: ROFL are you serious? I forgot about this, but if you're going to use one instance of mostly necessary "pork projects" worth a little more than 100 million to prove that Ron Paul spends more comparatively than other GOP politicians over the span of his political career is just hilarious.

Listen to what fiscally irresponsible Ron Paul said:

Quote:
Paul said leaders were well aware of his opposition to the ban and his belief that earmarks increase transparency because the public can see where their federal dollars are being allocated.
“They asked me whether I would sign on to the moratorium, and I said no, it doesn’t fit my philosophy because I think we should designate every penny that we spend,” he said.

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Old 07-15-2011, 01:34 AM #139
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Originally Posted by licence_to_kill View Post
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke says lawmakers would end up increasing the federal deficit if they fail to raise the nation's borrowing limit in time to avoid a default.

Republicans have held up an increase in the borrowing limit after expressing concerns of growing spending that has widened the federal deficits. But Bernanke says a failure to boost the borrowing limit would amount to a "self-inflicted" wound. That's because it would drive up interest costs on the $14.3 trillion debt and reduce government revenues by slowing economic growth.

The government hit its borrowing limit in May. The Treasury Department says it will default on its debt if the limit is not raised by Aug. 2.
Here's a less (selectively) slanted and more objective report on Benanke's opinion:

Quote:
WASHINGTON POST --The debate, Bernanke said, “seems like an opportunity we haven’t had for a while to address longer-term fiscal issues,” and he added that a debt ceiling increase without spending cuts could still risk a credit downgrade.

“Better to do both than just one?” Schumer asked.

“That’s certainly the best outcome,” Bernanke said.
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Old 07-15-2011, 02:03 AM #140
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Originally Posted by Bill Watterson View Post
Yes. Twice now. Haven't found anything.

You're trying too hard.

edit: ROFL are you serious? I forgot about this, but if you're going to use one instance of mostly necessary "pork projects" worth a little more than 100 million to prove that Ron Paul spends more comparatively than other GOP politicians over the span of his political career is just hilarious.

Listen to what fiscally irresponsible Ron Paul said:
I'll point you in the right direction. Check out his annual pork at opensecrets, then google his response when questioned about it and tell me what makes his equivocation more believable than that of any other politician.
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Old 07-15-2011, 02:06 AM #141
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I have. You have no argument. You need to compare it to other republican candidates and their pork spending over his political career. I never said he didn't spend on pork. And his response is much better than those I've seen from the GOP. Why should I find it believable? He always passes a balanced budget, for one.
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Old 07-23-2011, 12:06 AM #142
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Originally Posted by vantrepes View Post
For those that say "Tax the rich to pay for it all", watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=661pi6K-8WQ
Even with a 100% tax on everyone that makes over $250k a year, and you still won't dent the debt.

Congress use to vote on every aspect of every bond offering. That got tedious, so they gave the power to offer bonds to the Treasury. Congress set the limit, and the Treasury had to operate within that limit, and pay the bills. The Debt Ceiling was intended to keep Treasury in line, and keep the purse strings under Congressional control........
But every time it was raised, Congress figured out a way to spend up to it, and would require another increase down the line.
A decent short read, with charts: http://www.theatlantic.com/business/...l-look/238061/
bu...bu...but that would mean admitting that the years of huge government expenditures failed. What about AD?!?!?!?!
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Old 07-24-2011, 02:57 AM #143
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Completely legalize marijuana and gambling.
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Old 07-24-2011, 04:15 AM #144
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http://thinkmarkets.wordpress.com/20...cial-planning/



Oh lord. Technocracy at it's finest, and it's failing. Where are the progressives denouncing social planning?
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Old 07-24-2011, 01:50 PM #145
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Originally Posted by Bill Watterson View Post
http://thinkmarkets.wordpress.com/20...cial-planning/



Oh lord. Technocracy at it's finest, and it's failing. Where are the progressives denouncing social planning?
Wait, seriously? The stuff you post by Sumner is good, but this guy is basically just *****ing because he has to pay a small amount to help his fellow citizens and that we're somehow losing our "freedoms." This is the worst argument against socialized medicine I've ever seen.
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Old 07-24-2011, 05:01 PM #146
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Concerning that article, it has valid points. Why should we have to pay for medicine and other contraceptives?

Quote:
The panel said insurers should be forbidden to charge co-payments for contraceptives and other preventive services because even small charges could deter their use.
Yeah. Shows you the kind of people this will benefit. The sponges of society who are only going to take responsibility for their sexual behavior if it's handed to them. Meanwhile those of us who are smart enough to either keep the snake in the cage or pay for proper birth control are forced to pay for more bull**** for undeserving ingrates. It's just one step further in the bastardization of our capitalist society.
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Old 07-25-2011, 01:53 AM #147
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Originally Posted by licence_to_kill View Post
Wait, seriously? The stuff you post by Sumner is good, but this guy is basically just *****ing because he has to pay a small amount to help his fellow citizens and that we're somehow losing our "freedoms." This is the worst argument against socialized medicine I've ever seen.
Are you joking?

Your partisan glasses are messing with your vision.

Quote:
I believe that family planning is a good idea. In general, the more control people have over the consequences of their sexual activity the better. I do understand that pregnancy among poor teenagers pretty much ensures that they will continue to be poor, and that many will choose abortion. (To what extent is this the statist-liberal answer to the conservative concern about abortion?)

However, must the government MANDATE all of this in health insurance which we have been told is so expensive ? Furthermore, must I pay to improve others’ life styles, however sensible? By expanding the definition of healthcare to include the above the Obama Administration hopes to use the moral attractiveness of providing healthcare insurance for all in order to foist something more upon us. (A classic slippery slope mechanism is at work, I suggest).
Quote:
Move away all the details. What is at work is clear. Healthcare reform is the wedge which will undermine individual autonomy in many forms: what we eat, what life-choices we must financially support, the reduction of moral issues (contraception is a moral issue for some people) to healthcare and so forth.

But this is the tip of the iceberg. The key reason is in the statement by Dr. Rosenstock that the panel did not consider cost factors in their deliberations.
You don't even know if the policies are low-cost (which is a different argument, but since you brought it up...), the panel itself said it didn't consider cost factors...
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