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Old 03-02-2016, 12:51 PM #1
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2.0 bolt guide max volumization

Decided to go crazy with a lathe yesterday and was able to get some huge fps gains. (25-30fps over pooty stage 6 so about 50-60fps-ish over stock 2.0) I was able to move the 2nd bolt guide o'ring further back. Maybe someone from dlx can weigh in on why the oring wasn't put there in the first place?? Pooty uses that area for a spring, stock uses it for nothing as far as i can tell,, but there is just huge potential for volume gains for the firing chamber.
I also bored out the back, but that's nothing new.
Wish I had a luxe reg tester to get some actual numbers on the pressure but those are $$

Thoughts???
====For your viewing pleasure====


original for reference (image from pootypaintball.com)


UPDATE
I did a lot of testing and this is my experience. Was able to put green orings all through my pooty ndz can and it had some good fps gains and eliminated temperamental puffing. What I've noticed is the fps and pressure I can get about the same with the my modded stock and the pooty (and gommie parts too). However, the pooty bolt IS noticeably quieter/deeper/breathier sounding -with or without the pooty can or bolt guide. In other words, I attribute the satisfying sound change entirely to the tip of the bolt (flat face). I don't know why, maybe some Venturi effects or turbulence? Anyway, If i were to do it all over again, I would get just the pooty bolt/bolt guide over the full stage 6. The NDZ can looks great but its just not as reliable as the stock can tolerances. My modification was great fun and got similar fps at the same low pressure with stock as the $200 alternative, but! After playing, the stock modded pressures didn't translate to the shot sound quality that I was hoping -sounded as good as stock can sound to me.
Next time I play I will be using the pooty bolt/bolt guide with one of the stock modded cans. This is the best combo I've found so far. As long as it doesn't struggle with a full day of play or become unreliable, I'll be keeping it. If not i can always fall back on my rock solid modded stock guide.
====Line up of the contestants====

Thanks for looking guys

Last edited by burtonjo : 03-11-2016 at 06:56 PM.
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Old 03-02-2016, 01:02 PM #2
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Dentist approved.
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Old 03-02-2016, 08:09 PM #3
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Good job. I'm sure you lowered the operating pressure by creating more volume. Sometimes though, more volume at lower pressures means less efficient. Let us know what your testing shows.
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Old 03-02-2016, 08:44 PM #4
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Thanks, I'll try to see if I notice any appreciable difference next time I play.
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Old 03-06-2016, 09:29 PM #5
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worked fantastic all day! got some compliments on how it was shooting. No problems, didn't break a ball all day,, nice and consistent. NO fsdo after sitting in my car overnight in the snow. Ran it with a slightly higher dwell, 18? could have tuned it lower but i decided not to fuss with it. Couldn't tell a difference in the efficiency and would have to do a side by side with other luxes (no other luxes on the field) to get a true smoothness/sound comparison. Overall, I am very happy and will (maybe) not be going back to my pooty bolt.

Last edited by burtonjo : 03-13-2016 at 02:48 PM. Reason: added doubt to pooty bolt comment
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Old 03-08-2016, 04:54 PM #6
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That's great to hear.
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Old 03-10-2016, 07:29 PM #7
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Isnt the bolt releasing its air a hell of a lot sooner? Almost too soon?
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Old 03-11-2016, 06:06 PM #8
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Originally Posted by firefoxx04 View Post
Isnt the bolt releasing its air a hell of a lot sooner? Almost too soon?
I don't think so. If by releasing, do you mean the flow of air propelling the ball? That is controlled by the tip oring that wasn't moved if i'm not mistaken.
If you look at a core, the oring that I moved just is a dynamic seal that never opens or closes any air paths the entire bolt cycle. So i just let it do its sealing thing further back on the bolt because that makes the firing chamber larger.

Last edited by burtonjo : 03-11-2016 at 06:58 PM. Reason: thought you said "resealing" at first. Basically same answer though
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Old 03-11-2016, 07:26 PM #9
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A machinist from France made a bolt guide called the flash guide. I tested one and still have it. I found that since the bolt guide orings are so far apart it creates inconsistent drag on the bolt and the consistency was horrible. I would be curious for you to take data on the FPS that your gun shoots now. Maybe since your back oring is bigger now, since it rubs the new enlarged inside lathed part of your bolt, it creates a more stable path for the bolt. Interesting.
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Old 03-11-2016, 08:27 PM #10
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Originally Posted by craigert View Post
A machinist from France made a bolt guide called the flash guide. I tested one and still have it. I found that since the bolt guide orings are so far apart it creates inconsistent drag on the bolt and the consistency was horrible. I would be curious for you to take data on the FPS that your gun shoots now. Maybe since your back oring is bigger now, since it rubs the new enlarged inside lathed part of your bolt, it creates a more stable path for the bolt. Interesting.
The oring is actually the exact same size as it was and as the tip. Which means it ONLY works with a stock, non lathed-out bolt,, since the stock has a consistent inner diameter throughout. I don't have data right now but I can say from my testing the consistency was spot on, actually I remember stock with just my modded bolt guide was the most consistent.
That is interesting, though. I can't really conceptualize how the distance between the two orings would change the overall friction -if all other dimensions were maintained like groove width/depth, bolt diameter. From what I gather, there really isn't a good reason the stock bolt would have more friction towards the tail as opposed to the midsection.

Last edited by burtonjo : 03-11-2016 at 08:35 PM.
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Old 03-11-2016, 10:46 PM #11
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Aha! Ok I see now. I also just saw your 1.0 Gommie modded can as well. I'll have to dig up a picture of my flash guide to show you the similarities between yours. Your distance between orings is even further than the flash guide. The maker of the flash guide sounded like he experienced the drag issue as well. He is living in Germany now, and recently sent me special orings he said that he found that helps the issue; but it didn't help me. The only reason I could imagine for the distance creating drag is if there is play required for the bolt to "wiggle" in a sense as it moves back and forth, but I can't see why it would create drag either for a bolt that is supposed to be moving in a guided straight position.
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Old 03-12-2016, 09:58 AM #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burtonjo View Post
I don't think so. If by releasing, do you mean the flow of air propelling the ball? That is controlled by the tip oring that wasn't moved if i'm not mistaken.
If you look at a core, the oring that I moved just is a dynamic seal that never opens or closes any air paths the entire bolt cycle. So i just let it do its sealing thing further back on the bolt because that makes the firing chamber larger.
Sorry, I had a brain fart about how shockers/luxes work. Thats actually a pretty good idea if its not having any side effects
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Old 03-12-2016, 10:37 AM #13
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Originally Posted by craigert View Post
Aha! Ok I see now. I also just saw your 1.0 Gommie modded can as well. I'll have to dig up a picture of my flash guide to show you the similarities between yours. Your distance between orings is even further than the flash guide. The maker of the flash guide sounded like he experienced the drag issue as well. He is living in Germany now, and recently sent me special orings he said that he found that helps the issue; but it didn't help me. The only reason I could imagine for the distance creating drag is if there is play required for the bolt to "wiggle" in a sense as it moves back and forth, but I can't see why it would create drag either for a bolt that is supposed to be moving in a guided straight position.
That would be cool to see, and thanks for explaining that friction thing. Makes sense, hopefully as long as the bolt guide is straight inside of the can it shouldn't be an issue. So far this bolt guide hasn't shown any signs of that.
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Old 03-12-2016, 10:39 AM #14
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Sorry, I had a brain fart about how shockers/luxes work. Thats actually a pretty good idea if its not having any side effects
Yeah, no problems so far! but like I said in my update. Great fps gains, shot sound and quality gains.??.... meh/yea, jury is still out. Also, now I don't have a stock core to compare directly with anymore.
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Old 03-13-2016, 10:23 PM #15
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Curious if you are willing to go further and extend the slots at the tip of the guide so they are the same length as the distance between both orings? You would have even more volume yet. I wonder where diminishing returns comes into play. I guess it does not matter as long as your dwell is set appropriately and not maxed out like some people do. (hoping the chamber shutting itself off will save them some air)
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Old 03-14-2016, 09:01 AM #16
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Curious if you are willing to go further and extend the slots at the tip of the guide so they are the same length as the distance between both orings? You would have even more volume yet. I wonder where diminishing returns comes into play. I guess it does not matter as long as your dwell is set appropriately and not maxed out like some people do. (hoping the chamber shutting itself off will save them some air)
I thought about that but just decided to lathe down the outside so the wall is pretty thin there (1mm). I don't think I have a tool to make cuts to extend the windows nicely, but it would give even more volume yet.
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Old 03-14-2016, 08:40 PM #17
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You mean like this!?? Lol


http://tinypic.com/r/10hqafa/9
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Old 03-14-2016, 09:02 PM #18
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cool! I assume he didn't go quite as far back as me so rear bolt spring mods could still be used with it. Conceptually, looks like it should work well. I'd be curious to see how the dimensions of the o'ring grooves compare to stock. If you have a micrometer laying around, that may be why this guide is having problems.
I painstakingly measured and made small cuts until the groove I made in my guide was as identical to the stock one I removed (at least to the decimals of the micrometer i was using). Tedious, but it's what you gotta do for luxes or you're just asking for problems.
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Old 03-14-2016, 10:13 PM #19
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Originally Posted by burtonjo View Post
cool! I assume he didn't go quite as far back as me so rear bolt spring mods could still be used with it. Conceptually, looks like it should work well. I'd be curious to see how the dimensions of the o'ring grooves compare to stock. If you have a micrometer laying around, that may be why this guide is having problems. I painstakingly measured and made small cuts until the groove I made in my guide was as identical to the stock one I removed (at least to the decimals of the micrometer i was using). Tedious, but it's what you gotta do for luxes or you're just asking for problems.
Great point! And yes he didn't go as far back so I can still use a spring modded bolt with it.

I don't have a micrometer, but if I pick one up, what's the magic number for the groove depth?
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Old 03-16-2016, 12:05 PM #20
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Do you still have your old/ stock bolt guide? I think it has your magic number)
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Old 03-16-2016, 12:16 PM #21
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Do you still have your old/ stock bolt guide? I think it has your magic number)
Good point! I'll just use that.
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