Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-01-2011, 12:11 PM #43
mnp8nt
There is only Zuul
 
mnp8nt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Land O Drunken Reporters
mnp8nt is playing at Living Legends III
mnp8nt owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
mnp8nt supports Team VICIOUS
mnp8nt is an NCPA player
mnp8nt is Legendary
mnp8nt is attending Decay of Nations VII
Quote:
Originally Posted by outkast kid View Post
Regardless of what's discussed in this thread, why is it any concern of yours? Explain to me why you've felt the need to post 3 times so far if this is nothing but a waste of time and not worthy of taking up space on your precious internet.
I like how can't answer me. Goodjob. Completely scape the actual points.

Using your logic what differences does it make if I'm ''on your precious thread" ?

To frame the thread so far:

AdamRRT states that he does not necessarily believe claims made by the manufacturer. He wants physical data to prove the concept that the frame is designed to bend to protect the end user. The crux of this is that this will require having the design specifications of the marker. Of course PE will not provide the actual design specifications for fear of opening the door to knock-offs and the patent lawsuits that would be required to protect PE's intellectual property rights. Additionally, to be able to model the shear strength of a fall one would probably have to manually compute total failure at the ASA using the appropriate equation related to t=f/a. This is because there isn't likely an extension in AutoCad LT, Microstation etc that is setup for this type of situation (Matlab? Mathmatica?).

petedaddy states that he does not necessarily believe claims made by the manufacturer. He wants the opinions of others while also asking for the same data as AdamRRT. Fortunately, everyone has opinion. Facts on the otherhand, well, that is a completely different story.

All three of you were in the two other threads asking similar questions and recieving the same answers. Which begs the obvious question why make another thread. This brings us to my original point which was to create a sticky giving the 'known' answers to EGO forum users instead of having 26 more threads rehashing the same discussion and the same various positions on the subject.
__________________
The system is down.

Last edited by mnp8nt : 07-01-2011 at 01:14 PM.
mnp8nt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sponsored Links Remove Advertisement
Advertisement
Old 07-01-2011, 01:11 PM #44
petedaddy
Mission Accomplished!
 
petedaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Dirty Jerz
petedaddy plays in the APPA D4 division
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnp8nt View Post
Will all due respect: go troll elsewhere - you have achieved absolutely nothing. Civil or otherwise assigning some nonexistant quality to this thread would be little more then a lie so save it. Finally, 2k8r don't tell me my duty or responsibility on an internet forum.
U mad Bro?

Well, it was fun while it lasted. Im trolling my own thread? Does that even make sense? I'm sorry you fell this way...

If this were a troll thread, would the forum captains not have closed (which will probably happen now, thanks) it by now? Or at the very least said something at all?

mnp8nt: E-tough and keeping it gangsta' since 2k6...represent dawg...
petedaddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2011, 01:16 PM #45
mnp8nt
There is only Zuul
 
mnp8nt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Land O Drunken Reporters
mnp8nt is playing at Living Legends III
mnp8nt owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
mnp8nt supports Team VICIOUS
mnp8nt is an NCPA player
mnp8nt is Legendary
mnp8nt is attending Decay of Nations VII
Quote:
Originally Posted by petedaddy View Post
U mad Bro?

Well, it was fun while it lasted. Im trolling my own thread? Does that even make sense? I'm sorry you fell this way...

If this were a troll thread, would the forum captains not have closed (which will probably happen now, thanks) it by now? Or at the very least said something at all?

mnp8nt: E-tough and keeping it gangsta' since 2k6...represent dawg...
Lol okay. Gees I would hate to actually reason with you in your own thread that would be bad. Because no on pbnation.com has ever created a thread to troll others - there must be no such thing as Small Talk at all. Man I keep forgetting who owns teh interwebs.

See my post above.
__________________
The system is down.
mnp8nt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2011, 01:24 PM #46
outkast kid
 
 
outkast kid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Philadelphia
outkast kid is a Paintball photographer
This message is hidden because mnp8nt is on your ignore list.

I suggest we just leave it at that and continue the thread.
outkast kid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2011, 01:25 PM #47
mnp8nt
There is only Zuul
 
mnp8nt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Land O Drunken Reporters
mnp8nt is playing at Living Legends III
mnp8nt owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
mnp8nt supports Team VICIOUS
mnp8nt is an NCPA player
mnp8nt is Legendary
mnp8nt is attending Decay of Nations VII
Quote:
Originally Posted by outkast kid View Post
This message is hidden because mnp8nt is on your ignore list.

I suggest we just leave it at that and continue the thread.
Go ahead continue the thread I'm still waiting for an answer from:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mnp8nt
Do explain. Beyond the other 25+ threads what has been 'discovered' in this thread that wasn't already stated?
__________________
The system is down.
mnp8nt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2011, 01:26 PM #48
petedaddy
Mission Accomplished!
 
petedaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Dirty Jerz
petedaddy plays in the APPA D4 division
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnp8nt View Post
petedaddy states that he does not necessarily believe claims made by the manufacturer. on the subject.
Read my the very first post of this thread...How did you get that I dont believe PE? Everything I have said points to that I believe PE Laughable....SMH

Everytime you post....an angel puppy dies...
petedaddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2011, 01:30 PM #49
mnp8nt
There is only Zuul
 
mnp8nt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Land O Drunken Reporters
mnp8nt is playing at Living Legends III
mnp8nt owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
mnp8nt supports Team VICIOUS
mnp8nt is an NCPA player
mnp8nt is Legendary
mnp8nt is attending Decay of Nations VII
Quote:
Originally Posted by petedaddy View Post
Read my the very first post of this thread...How did you get that I dont believe PE? Everything I have said points to that I believe PE Laughable....SMH

Everytime you post....an angel puppy dies...
Lol what does reframe mean to you? Understand sarcasm?
__________________
The system is down.
mnp8nt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2011, 01:33 PM #50
AdamRRT
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Ashland, KY
AdamRRT owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnp8nt View Post
AdamRRT states that he does not necessarily believe claims made by the manufacturer. He wants physical data to prove the concept that the frame is designed to bend to protect the end user. The crux of this is that this will require having the design specifications of the marker. Of course PE will not provide the actual design specifications for fear of opening the door to knock-offs and the patent lawsuits that would be required to protect PE's intellectual property rights. Additionally, to be able to model the shear strength of a fall one would probably have to manually compute total failure at the ASA using the appropriate equation related to t=f/a. This is because there isn't likely an extension in AutoCad LT, Microstation etc that is setup for this type of situation (Matlab? Mathmatica?).
Not at all. I asked for the data showing that it is preventing injuries. Not design data.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mnp8nt View Post
All three of you were in the two other threads asking similar questions and recieving the same answers. Which begs the obvious question why make another thread. This brings us to my original point which was to create a sticky giving the 'known' answers to EGO forum users instead of having 26 more threads rehashing the same discussion and the same various positions on the subject.
Because the other threads got ruined by people chiming in with nothing worthwhile to add to the DISCUSSION (it's a discussion board, and we should be able to discuss it without people chiming in worthless info). People who just complain about the conversation's existance because they either lack the comprehension or maturity to have a good hypothetical conversation. Oh wait. Hrmm.
FYI there are at this point NO "KNOWN" answers, as you call them. Only stated explanations. None of it has been proven with data to back up a claim. Which is why I brought up the POSSIBILITY that it's a great marketing tool.

The big question now is what character flaw within some people cause them to be unable to allow a conversation to continue on a topic that they have nothing to add to?
__________________
Dark Trooper Ego 11
RIP phisighouck

"If you don't live close enough to say it to someone's face, don't say it online. You end up looking like the little kid who calls names and runs to his mommy." - I'll let you find the source of that one.

Last edited by AdamRRT : 07-01-2011 at 01:35 PM.
AdamRRT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2011, 01:41 PM #51
mnp8nt
There is only Zuul
 
mnp8nt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Land O Drunken Reporters
mnp8nt is playing at Living Legends III
mnp8nt owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
mnp8nt supports Team VICIOUS
mnp8nt is an NCPA player
mnp8nt is Legendary
mnp8nt is attending Decay of Nations VII
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamRRT View Post
Not at all. I asked for the data showing that it is preventing injuries. Not design data.
Asking for statistical information does not prove anything. Correlation does not prove causation. There is no other way to 'prove' your request without performing the kinematic calculations. As I said if you want to investigate the matter buy an ego take measures etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamRRT
Because the other threads got ruined by people chiming in with nothing worthwhile to add to the DISCUSSION (it's a discussion board, and we should be able to discuss it without people chiming in worthless info). People who just complain about the conversation's existance because they either lack the comprehension or maturity to have a good hypothetical conversation. Oh wait. Hrmm.
Stating that your posting on a online discussion forum and then asking for maturity in a hypothetical conversation is just plain silly. Manage your expectations 'its a discussion board'. Its a discussion board anyone can comment its not just yours deal with it. Hypothetically you wouldnt need to ask a question which you already have a bias toward answering a certain way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamRRT
FYI there are at this point NO "KNOWN" answers, as you call them. Only stated explanations. None of it has been proven with data to back up a claim. Which is why I brought up the POSSIBILITY that it's a great marketing tool.
Sure there is. For instance we know the obvious. The strain of an dive can cause enough shear to break the frame. That this is the perhaps the weakest point of the marker (the frame has the least amount of support go figure). That PE will provide a replacement on its perogative and that this subject was present in the design of egos since 2007. Etc. Of course your avoiding my original point now aren't you ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamRRT
The big question now is what character flaw within some people cause them to be unable to allow a conversation to continue on a topic that they have nothing to add to?
You mean adding to a hypothetical discussion? Oh wait its' a hypothetical discussion. Point being the other threads were people asking for help, your merely looking to speculate. My original point was that while your great philosophical discussion would be better served under a single thread with the known information like say being located in a sticky.
__________________
The system is down.

Last edited by mnp8nt : 07-01-2011 at 02:18 PM.
mnp8nt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2011, 02:31 PM #52
AdamRRT
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Ashland, KY
AdamRRT owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
It would... if we could get idiots to let go of their odd hangups against the threads and have a discussion until all discussion pertinent to the topic is exhausted.

And no, showing the injury data doesn't require any kinetic study. Nice stretch though.
__________________
Dark Trooper Ego 11
RIP phisighouck

"If you don't live close enough to say it to someone's face, don't say it online. You end up looking like the little kid who calls names and runs to his mommy." - I'll let you find the source of that one.
AdamRRT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2011, 02:36 PM #53
mnp8nt
There is only Zuul
 
mnp8nt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Land O Drunken Reporters
mnp8nt is playing at Living Legends III
mnp8nt owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
mnp8nt supports Team VICIOUS
mnp8nt is an NCPA player
mnp8nt is Legendary
mnp8nt is attending Decay of Nations VII
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamRRT View Post
It would... if we could get idiots to let go of their odd hangups against the threads and have a discussion until all discussion pertinent to the topic is exhausted.

And no, showing the injury data doesn't require any kinetic study. Nice stretch though.
Do explain how your observational data is going to replace an empiracle method of 'proving' your query.

Nice ad hominem. BTW kinematics = study of things in motion. Kinetic = study of a singular transfer of energy.
__________________
The system is down.
mnp8nt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2011, 02:51 PM #54
AdamRRT
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Ashland, KY
AdamRRT owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
Yup. Spell correct sucks. Life's tough and you'll get over it.

The biggest question is this: why are people with no interest in the discussion chiming in with nothing productive, causing a degrading of the thread? Wouldn't it be a little more mature to just butt out? Cause whatever reason they THINK we shouldn't want to discuss it doesn't matter. It's a discussion we'd obviously like to have.

Observational data is of significance. It provides the real-world realistic data that is applicable to the situation instead of the laboratory crap that uneducated people believe means something.
__________________
Dark Trooper Ego 11
RIP phisighouck

"If you don't live close enough to say it to someone's face, don't say it online. You end up looking like the little kid who calls names and runs to his mommy." - I'll let you find the source of that one.
AdamRRT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2011, 02:53 PM #55
AdamRRT
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Ashland, KY
AdamRRT owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
Thanks to the guys that have PM'd me. You're right. I'll stop feeding the trolls. Thanks for the attempt to have a discussion.
__________________
Dark Trooper Ego 11
RIP phisighouck

"If you don't live close enough to say it to someone's face, don't say it online. You end up looking like the little kid who calls names and runs to his mommy." - I'll let you find the source of that one.
AdamRRT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2011, 02:56 PM #56
mnp8nt
There is only Zuul
 
mnp8nt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Land O Drunken Reporters
mnp8nt is playing at Living Legends III
mnp8nt owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
mnp8nt supports Team VICIOUS
mnp8nt is an NCPA player
mnp8nt is Legendary
mnp8nt is attending Decay of Nations VII
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamRRT View Post

The biggest question is this: why are people with no interest in the discussion chiming in with nothing productive, causing a degrading of the thread? Wouldn't it be a little more mature to just butt out? Cause whatever reason they THINK we shouldn't want to discuss it doesn't matter. It's a discussion we'd obviously like to have.

Observational data is of significance. It provides the real-world realistic data that is applicable to the situation instead of the laboratory crap that uneducated people believe means something.
Another ad hominem and an excuse. Observational data (inductive) data is easily manipulated. (It's called experimental bias). Once again the only way to prove that 'the eclipse ego frame was not intentionally designed for safety' is to perform design calculations - thats something that you clearly can't accept.

Of course your too busy ranting to actually back up your position. Degrading? Lol you want a hypothetical discussion on real topics - what if the sky was red ?
__________________
The system is down.
mnp8nt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2011, 04:44 PM #57
deaton
aka Melonhead
 
deaton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: West Michigan
deaton owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
deaton owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
I do feel that both the statistical data and the design data would both serve a purpose in this discussion. I believe AdamRRT is asking for the statistical data that would show a comparison between number or injuries sustained to players vs the number of injuries sustained to players who are using equipment with the material design in question. While that data would be helpful, I think the data would be too difficult to capture to be accurate. You would need to use only players using EGO markers. And there would need to be a frame that is not designed to bend under the stress, and the frame designed to bend. I think that would provide the data that proves whether the design is just clever marketing or whether it is actually protecting the players.

The stress data that mnp8nt is asking about is also very relevant to this discussion. It's been a few years since my Calc, Physics, Statics, and Mechanics of Materials classes, but I can picture in my head the kind of work up it would take to accurately depict what is going on with PE's design. But, as was mentioned, I highly doubt PE is going to make their designs public knowledge just for the sole fact of our little discussion here.
__________________
Team IYAOYAS
deaton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2011, 05:02 PM #58
AdamRRT
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Ashland, KY
AdamRRT owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
Actually I'm being much more realistic than that. Let's just see any info on the number of injuries per year, per capita, related to hitting ones own marker, that justifies me getting a gun with an intentional weak spot. Minimal data. Just anything to support the claim is all. It's absurd to suggest any type of complex data gathering (although it IS necessary if you're claiming that I need a weaker marker to protect me from myself). I'm sure for PE to make such a claim, a company as thorough as PE has done the footwork.

They make great shooting markers either way.
__________________
Dark Trooper Ego 11
RIP phisighouck

"If you don't live close enough to say it to someone's face, don't say it online. You end up looking like the little kid who calls names and runs to his mommy." - I'll let you find the source of that one.
AdamRRT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2011, 05:03 PM #59
AdamRRT
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Ashland, KY
AdamRRT owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
And yes the other data would be great, but highly unlikely. That's why I didn't go there. I'm trying to keep the conversation realistic.
__________________
Dark Trooper Ego 11
RIP phisighouck

"If you don't live close enough to say it to someone's face, don't say it online. You end up looking like the little kid who calls names and runs to his mommy." - I'll let you find the source of that one.
AdamRRT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2011, 05:14 PM #60
mnp8nt
There is only Zuul
 
mnp8nt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Land O Drunken Reporters
mnp8nt is playing at Living Legends III
mnp8nt owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
mnp8nt supports Team VICIOUS
mnp8nt is an NCPA player
mnp8nt is Legendary
mnp8nt is attending Decay of Nations VII
Quote:
Originally Posted by deaton View Post
I do feel that both the statistical data and the design data would both serve a purpose in this discussion. I believe AdamRRT is asking for the statistical data that would show a comparison between number or injuries sustained to players vs the number of injuries sustained to players who are using equipment with the material design in question. While that data would be helpful, I think the data would be too difficult to capture to be accurate. You would need to use only players using EGO markers. And there would need to be a frame that is not designed to bend under the stress, and the frame designed to bend. I think that would provide the data that proves whether the design is just clever marketing or whether it is actually protecting the players.

The stress data that mnp8nt is asking about is also very relevant to this discussion. It's been a few years since my Calc, Physics, Statics, and Mechanics of Materials classes, but I can picture in my head the kind of work up it would take to accurately depict what is going on with PE's design. But, as was mentioned, I highly doubt PE is going to make their designs public knowledge just for the sole fact of our little discussion here.
Thank you your post puts things into better perspective.
__________________
The system is down.
mnp8nt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2011, 05:47 PM #61
enviousjohn
 
 
enviousjohn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
enviousjohn owns a Planet Eclipse Geo
enviousjohn posts videos on PbNation
enviousjohn is reppin' sidebar 4 life
enviousjohn has perfected Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
I've never had a frame bend on me, but I do know this: Planet Eclipse will replace just about anything for just about any reason. Their customer service is that good.

In the middle of 2010 I purchased a very early Geo2 that was, in retrospect, probably the best gun I've ever owned. The only issue I had was that the vent hole in the can hadn't been milled all the way through, an issue that affected a number of markers from the early run.

I sent Nicky a PM, he directed me to Gerry, and Gerry told me to send him my can and he would send me a replacement. This was at 8:30PM on a Tuesday night. On Friday morning I had a brand new, flawless can in my mailbox... only I never sent him my original can to begin with. He took me at my word and just shipped me a can.

If I know one thing for certain when it comes to paintball, it's this: Planet Eclipse puts the customer first and uses their best judgement in all cases. If something they built fails, they're almost surely going to replace it- even if you're out of warranty, even if you bought it second hand, even if you're halfway across the world. They care about brand loyalty and take pride in their work. I'm sure someone somewhere has had something that wasn't replaced without hassle, but that person is certainly the exception and not the rule.
enviousjohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2011, 05:58 PM #62
AdamRRT
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Ashland, KY
AdamRRT owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
They've already said they won't replace it. FYI.
__________________
Dark Trooper Ego 11
RIP phisighouck

"If you don't live close enough to say it to someone's face, don't say it online. You end up looking like the little kid who calls names and runs to his mommy." - I'll let you find the source of that one.
AdamRRT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2011, 12:41 AM #63
deaton
aka Melonhead
 
deaton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: West Michigan
deaton owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
deaton owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamRRT View Post
Actually I'm being much more realistic than that. Let's just see any info on the number of injuries per year, per capita, related to hitting ones own marker, that justifies me getting a gun with an intentional weak spot. Minimal data. Just anything to support the claim is all. It's absurd to suggest any type of complex data gathering (although it IS necessary if you're claiming that I need a weaker marker to protect me from myself). I'm sure for PE to make such a claim, a company as thorough as PE has done the footwork.

They make great shooting markers either way.

It seems like there should be a reference to this data somewhere. There has been data to prove that there are fewer injuries per capita in paintball than in bowling or golf, so there is data recording injuries in paintball. We would just need a way to put a number to how many of those were sustained from contact with the marker during a dive or slide.

But that still isn't enough. What if the number is very low? How do we not know that the number of injuries sustained while diving and making contact with the marker is much lower because injuries are avoided by the frames bending?
__________________
Team IYAOYAS
deaton is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
Forum Jump