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Old 06-30-2011, 06:04 PM #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvecchio View Post
I just wanna know why you had to throw those comments in there? Also be an "adult" and get my name right this time...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVyll305rWA

We're all kinda forgetting this very important reason that the feature is designed into the gun. Honestly, AdamRRT, I don't know (and I could be the only one...) where the eff you stand on the matter. You are very quick and harsh with your condescending opinions stating your disbelief that it is in fact a safety feature, yet you also state that you don't believe it's a flaw...So is it just acceptable to you that it bends? What exactly is your opinion?

And food for thought. A reason you probably don't hear about people's injuries is because more people are likely to come on here and show off their bent frame and blame a manufacturer than do come on to explain how they failed at a dive and sustained an injury. The latter would likely be welcomed with ridicule and they know it, so they don't post it.

IMO, Yes, absolutely, yes.


The only way I can see this happening is if you landed directly on your tank and your face hit the back of your gun. If this is in fact what happened, the frame would likely have at least lessened the blow.


The frame is left as a weak point to both ensure physical safety of the player and to minimize the possibility of the tank being disconnected from the gun and flying around when the hose/asa breaks.
<insert video that I can't find of flying tank going another player's ankle and breaking it>
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Old 06-30-2011, 06:40 PM #23
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Alvecchio - yes I find it acceptable.
And the thread isn't about taking any stand on the marker. Are you asking? If so, I'll tell you. I loved all my Egos to date. And I think the Ego11 is the best shooting poppet in history, with the best sound signature of any. I loved my G6R and played better with it than any marker I've had, but I chalk that up to hard work and begging good coaches for criticism. So I really like my Ego. I just am not what some consider a "fanboy" (that doesn't mean that you are so dont read more into the comment), as in people who get mad when someone discusses the negatives of a marker instead of just the positives. It's similar to humility. A trait that shows an acceptance of our own personal positive and negative traits, followed by steady work to improve upon those negatives. So what people see as me being negative isn't so. It's that typically people have voiced the positives so I don't need to. But the negatives are oddly ignored it seems. That's all. I just believe that being honest means telling the whole story. Sorry that some find it offensive, but it's a problem with their perception of my posts.
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Old 06-30-2011, 07:20 PM #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snkp360

<insert video that I can't find of flying tank going another player's ankle and breaking it>
That should be the link i posted ;-)
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Old 06-30-2011, 07:53 PM #25
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The egos have built in crumple zones if you will. I believe that is a 2 fold matter. Firstly, it does protect the player from the entire brunt of the impact. Secondly, I believe it is to protect PE in case something catastrophic happens such as a tank reg shearing because the frame didnt crumple. The gun being built this way helps alleviate any liability on the part of PE.

The downside if the frame shearing is the sharp aluminum edges that they produce. Although, running around and diving with a compressed air tank containing 4500psi isnt exactly what I would call safe.

Just my .02
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Old 06-30-2011, 08:23 PM #26
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Originally Posted by outkast kid View Post
It took 5 minutes for him to walk off the field and when he got up, the barrel on his Matrix was 13" into the ground. They needed to stitch up his jaw because of the gash that he ended up with. If it were an ego, it'd be destroyed but he would have been able to play the rest of the day and go home just fine.
There is no way to prove he would have sustained fewer injuries if he was using any other marker.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvecchio View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVyll305rWA


The frame is left as a weak point to both ensure physical safety of the player and to minimize the possibility of the tank being disconnected from the gun and flying around when the hose/asa breaks.
Macro lines and ASA breaks are not the issue. The problem occurs when the tank regulator becomes dislodged from bottle. The video you posted proves that.



With that being said, I would like someone try to bend the frame on my automag.
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Old 06-30-2011, 08:43 PM #27
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Quote:
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Macro lines and ASA breaks are not the issue. The problem occurs when the tank regulator becomes dislodged from bottle. The video you posted proves that.
let's just say air source isues
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Old 06-30-2011, 09:44 PM #28
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There is no way to prove he would have sustained fewer injuries if he was using any other marker.
There is no proof for or against the argument that my story could have turned out differently if the player in question were using an ego. Regardless, I watched a 6'5 player pile-drive his gun 13" into the ground and take the force of that impact. Even if there was no sustained injury from the initial blow the pain would still be excruciating.

That silent movie of the tank flying into a player's ankle was actually failure at the regulator of the bottle. A macro line burst would not have the pressure to propel a tank like that. Only several thousand pounds of force being released at once would have that kind of result. When a macro line breaks your tank and gun don't fly across the field, there's just not enough air coming out at once as long as the reg is working properly.

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Old 07-01-2011, 07:04 AM #29
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Hey guys,

Very valid points made by the likes of petedaddy, AdamRRT and Alvecchio so far on the thread, thread so i thought that i'd chime in with my 2 pence worth (worth more than cents btw check www.xe.com ) and add a Planet Eclipse perspective to the discussion.

Broken/bent frames are a side effect of playing paintball - all production markers suffer them; heck i've even seen a Tippman frame brake so anything is possible!

As players, we all expose ourselves to a certain amount of risk whilst participating in paintball. If you really doubt that, then cast your mind back 4-5 years ago when Stako tanks had an unfortunate run of explosions and if you happened to be stood 20 feet away from one of the ones that "went off" you soon decided to stop using them, or wanting to be anywhere near them. Anyway i digress; as players there are risks - some that we accept, others we rarely acknowledge until they happen to us (or someone we know).

As a manufacturer we want to minimise the risks that players using our equipment are exposed to; ultimately to increase the longevity and popularity of our products and their appeal to the market. Any paintball marker will have a weak point in the assessembly - infact weak point does it a dis-service as it is simply the "least strong".

Common sense determines that the area of least risk to injury (i.e. no air pressure issues to deal with) should be the area that is targeted, and to that end the grip frame on an Eclipse marker fits that profile. Anyone doubting our reluctance to design a gas through grip should refer to this paragraph of text

As Customer Service and Tech Support Manager I have instructed all of my Technicians and Eclipse Service Centres that a bent or broken grip frame is classified as Customer Inflicted Damage. All instances of CID are dealt with purely on a case by case basis and wherever possible we will endeavour to minimise the cost of replacement parts to the customer; especially if the marker has already been registered for warranty and the customer has provided us with all of the facts off the bat.

We are constantly improving to enhance the level of Customer Support and Service that we can offer you guys so if you have any comments or suggestions as to how we can better serve your needs the you are welcomed to contact me directly at: nick.t@planeteclipse.com

Have a great weekend

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Old 07-01-2011, 08:19 AM #30
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Can one of the mods just make a sticky out of these. This topic just keeps coming back up. :/
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Old 07-01-2011, 09:16 AM #31
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Nicky T has spoken.

/thread
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Old 07-01-2011, 09:35 AM #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mnp8nt View Post
Can one of the mods just make a sticky out of these. This topic just keeps coming back up. :/
Actually, this one seems to be going different than the others. This one has a nice and healthy debate going. No flaming, no trolling, no fighting...It's been really informative so far. I think this is the sort thing forums like PBN are meant for. People giving their views without be slammed by others who may disagree.

Thanks to all involved so far for keeping this thread respectful.
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Old 07-01-2011, 09:54 AM #33
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NickyT: thanks for the comments but I gotta ask you. By the logic of no pressure in the area of intended pressure relief, why not make it the barrel! It's cheaper & easier to fix. Yes people will use different barrels, but that's not your problem.

Or is it about needing a relief point between the marker and tank?

Also to validate the injury avoidance concept, can you offer any data?
Don't get me wrong. I NEVER accept any company's word as final since they're inherently biased. So it won't necessarily change my mind. But it'll at least give the claim some credibility other than your good rep. Something concrete.

Thank you.
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Old 07-01-2011, 10:01 AM #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamRRT View Post
NickyT: thanks for the comments but I gotta ask you. By the logic of no pressure in the area of intended pressure relief, why not make it the barrel! It's cheaper & easier to fix. Yes people will use different barrels, but that's not your problem.

Or is it about needing a relief point between the marker and tank?
All I can think about is an old western movie where the cowboys break bottles on the bar and try to cut each other up. But in stead its two paintballers at the dead box with shattered barrels. :-)
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Old 07-01-2011, 10:36 AM #35
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I could see the barrel as the weak point being a major issue. You dive, core sample, barrel snaps off, you continue to slide and gut yourself on the jagged metal tube you used to shoot people with 10 seconds earlier. Stand up, walk off the field with a handful of intestines Braveheart style.
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Old 07-01-2011, 10:38 AM #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamRRT View Post
NickyT: thanks for the comments but I gotta ask you. By the logic of no pressure in the area of intended pressure relief, why not make it the barrel! It's cheaper & easier to fix. Yes people will use different barrels, but that's not your problem.

Or is it about needing a relief point between the marker and tank?

Also to validate the injury avoidance concept, can you offer any data?
Don't get me wrong. I NEVER accept any company's word as final since they're inherently biased. So it won't necessarily change my mind. But it'll at least give the claim some credibility other than your good rep. Something concrete.

Thank you.



Barrels bend. Ever see someone take a core sample ?
Look I understand your distrust of advertized claims. After the whole .50 caliber movement its very reasonable to question such things. But if you truely want to discuss the design (I.E. understand) this subject you'll want to take classes in calculus, statics, dynamics and mechanics of materials.

Quote:
Originally Posted by petedaddy
Actually, this one seems to be going different than the others. This one has a nice and healthy debate going. No flaming, no trolling, no fighting...It's been really informative so far. I think this is the sort thing forums like PBN are meant for. People giving their views without be slammed by others who may disagree.
This is the same discussion that took place in the last 5 threads. The same information has been repeated. There really is no need to beat a dead horse again. Want me to repost the links ?

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Old 07-01-2011, 10:46 AM #37
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Nope. Those threads got ruined with silliness.
I can't see the barrel being any sharper than the broken grip frame. Both are sharp and would hurt you.
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Old 07-01-2011, 11:13 AM #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mnp8nt View Post
This is the same discussion that took place in the last 5 threads. The same information has been repeated. There really is no need to beat a dead horse again. Want me to repost the links ?
With all due respect, this thread is not causing harm to anyone at all. Nor is anyone forcing you to read it. While I understand that it may be furstrating for you to have to see this thread on the forum, I don't necessarily think it is your duty or responsibility to "police" this thread. That's what forum captains are for. This has been a really civil discussion on this topic.

If you dont have anything of partciularly value to add other than "beat a dead horse" or some other comment, then this thread is not for you. But please respect what where are doing here...
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Old 07-01-2011, 11:53 AM #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petedaddy View Post
With all due respect, this thread is not causing harm to anyone at all. Nor is anyone forcing you to read it. While I understand that it may be furstrating for you to have to see this thread on the forum, I don't necessarily think it is your duty or responsibility to "police" this thread. That's what forum captains are for. This has been a really civil discussion on this topic.

If you dont have anything of partciularly value to add other than "beat a dead horse" or some other comment, then this thread is not for you. But please respect what where are doing here...
Will all due respect: go troll elsewhere - you have achieved absolutely nothing. Civil or otherwise assigning some nonexistant quality to this thread would be little more then a lie so save it. Finally, 2k8r don't tell me my duty or responsibility on an internet forum.

This topic has come at least five times before. Your questions and the answers are the same. Like I already stated if you want the force reactions and kinematic data you will need to take several physics based courses and perform the computations yourself.

Here you go:
  1. http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3634698
  2. http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3634126
  3. http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3634126
  4. http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3632878
  5. http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3623847
  6. http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3600117
  7. http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3593176
  8. http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3581662
  9. http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3503724
  10. http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3490050
  11. http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3257376
  12. http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3257376
  13. http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3180470
  14. http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3306942
  15. http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3317719
  16. http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3376769
  17. http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3396725
  18. http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3452845
  19. http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3459125
  20. http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=2952066
  21. http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=2977786
  22. http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=2965655
  23. http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=2976880
  24. http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=2983116
  25. http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3095046
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Old 07-01-2011, 11:57 AM #40
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Nope. Those threads got ruined with silliness.
I can't see the barrel being any sharper than the broken grip frame. Both are sharp and would hurt you.
Yes both are sharp but your grip frame doesn't turn into a punji stick if it collapses. A broken off aluminum tube lodged 4" into the ground would do some damage if you landed on it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mnp8nt View Post
Will all due respect: go troll elsewhere - you have achieved absolutely nothing.

Finally, 2k8r don't tell me my duty or responsibility on an internet forum.
Somebody put their big boy britches on today. Leave this thread if you're not going to contribute. If anyone is stirring up a troll nest it's you, and who uses join date as a status symbol? Are we in 5th grade?

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Old 07-01-2011, 12:06 PM #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by outkast kid View Post
Somebody put their big boy britches on today. Leave this thread if you're not going to contribute. If anyone is stirring up a troll nest it's you, and who uses join date as a status symbol? Are we in 5th grade?
Do explain. Beyond the other 25+ threads what has been 'discovered' in this thread that wasn't already stated?

And Evry1s e-status tis teh ony wy 2 reeson wit peeple ryght?
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Old 07-01-2011, 12:09 PM #42
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Regardless of what's discussed in this thread, why is it any concern of yours? Explain to me why you've felt the need to post 3 times so far if this is nothing but a waste of time and not worthy of taking up space on your precious internet.
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