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Old 05-31-2011, 01:08 PM #43
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i think this is sorta a good thing. i know im gonna get mad hate for this but il say it anyway .... its about time. there have been a number of issues that have arrose from police believing an airsoft/paintball gun is a real gun, so i can see the saftey side of things. but secondly this mite help the image of paintball lighten up and start to be viewed as a sport and not just kids wanting to play war. if thats your forte then check out airsoft. no hoppers, no air tanks, working magazines, and guns that stay accurate at a long range....(ive even heard of some using real rifle bodys n such). paintball works better as a tournament sport and airsoft is the better option for milsim imo....
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Old 06-01-2011, 10:33 AM #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shishdisma View Post
When was the last time you saw a paintball marker built to resemble an assault rifle that looked anything like a handgun? The law only covers handgun imitations, not rifle-type markers.
An ego without a tank on it looks very much like a handgun to an average joe. Thus this law applies. You have to understand that in a court of law a good lawyer can argue the "appears to be a handgun with a barrel of less then 16 inches" means that any gun with a barrel of less then 16 inches could indeed be classified as "appears to be a handgun". Its a slippery slope. You put that kind of wording into a law and it leaves a whole hell of a lot of room for interpretation..

CA is the bane of our countries existence.. All the stupid laws come from CA. You guys need to L2Vote for better representatives >_<
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Old 06-01-2011, 11:46 AM #45
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Originally Posted by DELuxemoDEL View Post
Listen, those of you arguing the pistol point of the bill are missing the bigger picture."Barrel less than X inches in length" leaves the door open for further adjustments to the bill. It has not passed yet and may be further amended. And just because you may play speedball where markers tend to look less realistic doesn't mean us milsim players don't need your help. Was this game not born in the woods? Are we not all brothers and sisters in this sport regardless of our playing style or preference? And the biggest aspect of all is this... all a gunman intent on wreaking havoc would have to do (if this bill were to be passed) is paint their gun some ridiculous color and no one would ask questions until the real bullets started flying. The markers are not the issue. The intent of the person using them is. People have been shot for pulling out their cell phones in an aggressive manner. Please, everyone, go to Change.org and sign the petition to stop this ridiculous bill and the heavy foot of government.
i see no need point for paintball guns to look like real guns and this why. and i play in the woods and my dust blue karni. doesnt stick out. on top of that i have these things called eyes i see people moving in the woods before i see their marker.
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Old 06-01-2011, 12:15 PM #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Japy View Post
An ego without a tank on it looks very much like a handgun to an average joe. Thus this law applies. You have to understand that in a court of law a good lawyer can argue the "appears to be a handgun with a barrel of less then 16 inches" means that any gun with a barrel of less then 16 inches could indeed be classified as "appears to be a handgun". Its a slippery slope. You put that kind of wording into a law and it leaves a whole hell of a lot of room for interpretation..

CA is the bane of our countries existence.. All the stupid laws come from CA. You guys need to L2Vote for better representatives >_<
there are ar's and ak's that are handguns.
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Old 06-01-2011, 01:01 PM #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Physcojosh View Post
so basicly it says anything that Looks like a Real firearm Cant be Black...

it wont effect Normal paintball markers
That's not accurate.

The precise language is anything a "reasonable person" might think is a firearm must be brightly colored.

That's a pretty vague definition. When you consider that "reasonable person" can be your random member of the public, is it possible that such a reasonable member of the public who is not familiar with paintball guns might not be able to tell the difference?

I personally believe a reasonable person can tell the difference, but it's not my, or your, opinion that matters - if a city attorney decides to fine you $10,000 because you've got a black paintball gun, do you want to have to go to court to prove that it's different enough from a real gun that you shouldn't be fined?

Far, far better to just make sure paintball guns are not included in the legislation, which they should not be.


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Old 06-01-2011, 01:14 PM #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alted4 View Post
This bill is already up for a vote, and I see nothing stopping it from passing.
The bill only passed the CA State Senate by 5 votes, 21 to 16, and that was before anyone involved in paintball really knew it existed. That means all it would have taken then was changing 3 votes.

With current efforts to educate lawmakers on the unintended consequences of the bill, along with a strong campaign by paintball players, we absolutely can affect how legislators vote on this bill.

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Old 06-01-2011, 01:28 PM #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shishdisma View Post
Why does everybody seem to think this bill affects Milsim or woods ball at all? So T8s and those stupid Kingman pistols will have to be a bright color now, woooo. Your X7 isn't affected by the law....
This bill ABSOLUTELY affects paintball.

Believe me, I originally thought it didn't affect paintball guns, because paintball guns are not BB guns, right?

I was wrong.

And I'm a pretty smart guy who has worked on paintball legislation for 10 years.

Here's how this affects paintball:

There is already a law on the CA books that provides for a $10,000 fine for selling or transporting an "Imitation firearm", which includes anything a "reasonable person" might confuse for a firearm.

There is an exception to that law for BB devices. What this bill would do is eliminate the exception for BB devices. Now, if you do what I originally did, you might say "Ah, but paintball guns are not BB devices!" But, under this section of California law, paintball guns ARE BB devices.

16250. As used in this part, "BB device" means any instrument that
expels a projectile, such as a BB or a pellet, not exceeding 6mm
caliber, through the force of air pressure, gas pressure, or spring
action, or any spot marker gun.


That part about the "spot marker gun" is what currently keeps a city or district attorney from assessing you a $10,000 fine for having a paintball gun that isn't brightly colored, and SB 798 would eliminate that exception.


If this bill passes, and you have a black paintball gun, you risk a $10,000 fine if you do pretty much anything with it other than go to the hardware store, buy some orange spray paint, and paint the thing.



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Old 06-01-2011, 01:37 PM #50
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Guys, the 16" thing isn't relevant. First, it was an entirely separate section IN ADDITION to the existing law. Second, that section got cut out before the bill passed the CA State Senate.


The important part is the removal of the "BB Device" exception to the existing $10,000 fine for sale/transport of "imitation firearms". That fine applies regardless of barrel length.


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Old 06-01-2011, 02:12 PM #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcat65gt500 View Post
by definition it will end up affecting paintball markers. Honestly you have to look at the reasoning for this law. It isnt to make the markers less desired it is to protect those that are using them. I'll use bb guns as an example, person A is carrying a bb gun and lets say he is acting aggressive to a police officer and he tries to be a more aggressive by pulling the bb gun out. Now the police officer is forced to act (he may not know that the gun is just a simple bb gun). This could lead to any amount of bad situations.

I honestly see this as a good thing in the end.
I'm sorry, but if you're gonna pull a BB gun on a cop, to try and intimidate him, you deserve to be shot.



This is more of to prevent kids to that are playing airsoft in the front yard. To have to police called on them because "There are 2 kids in my neighbors yard that are trying to shoot each other!"

A rookie cop rolls up, and thinks the kids have real guns, kid a makes a sudden move cause he's a kid, the cop think kid a is going to shoot him, so the cop pulls the trigger.

That is a slightly more "real" scenario, but instead of making rules that you have to do this kind of thing at a field, or non in plain view of the public, they decide to just ban the guns. which I think is stupid.
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Old 06-01-2011, 03:09 PM #52
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Originally Posted by l-Poder-l View Post
I'm sorry, but if you're gonna pull a BB gun on a cop, to try and intimidate him, you deserve to be shot.



This is more of to prevent kids to that are playing airsoft in the front yard. To have to police called on them because "There are 2 kids in my neighbors yard that are trying to shoot each other!"

A rookie cop rolls up, and thinks the kids have real guns, kid a makes a sudden move cause he's a kid, the cop think kid a is going to shoot him, so the cop pulls the trigger.

That is a slightly more "real" scenario, but instead of making rules that you have to do this kind of thing at a field, or non in plain view of the public, they decide to just ban the guns. which I think is stupid.
do they not have the colored barrel tip?
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Old 06-01-2011, 03:20 PM #53
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Old 06-01-2011, 04:15 PM #54
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someone better figure out how to create transparent aluminum. the body has to be transparent so that the internals can be seen. this could be major for the paintball world since california is the "center" of paintball.
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Old 06-01-2011, 04:25 PM #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raehl View Post
16250. As used in this part, "BB device" means any instrument that
expels a projectile, such as a BB or a pellet, not exceeding 6mm
caliber
, through the force of air pressure, gas pressure, or spring
action, or any spot marker gun.

If this bill passes, and you have a black paintball gun, you risk a $10,000 fine if you do pretty much anything with it other than go to the hardware store, buy some orange spray paint, and paint the thing.


- Chris
Does that not rule out paintball markers?

I dont even know what to think of this... I've been paintballing for 12 years, majority of the guns I've owned were black, so now because all this realistic looking milsim stuff is around.. I may run into trouble for owning a black G6R!? **** that ****.
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Old 06-01-2011, 04:37 PM #56
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Originally Posted by RyanR View Post
Does that not rule out paintball markers?
I made EXACTLY the same mistake you did; even sent out a couple (now a bit embarrassing) emails to some industry folks based on that very idea. But, no, it doesn't rule out paintball markers. The important part is at the end, or spot markers.

The way the definition breaks down is this:

16250. As used in this part, "BB device" means

- any instrument that expels a projectile, such as a BB or a pellet,
- - not exceeding 6mm caliber,
- - through the force of
- - - air pressure,
- - - gas pressure,
- - - or spring action,
- or any spot marker gun.


The 6 mm limit only applies to the first part; it doesn't apply to the spot marker part. So BB device includes any paintball gun, and any BB gun shooting < 6mm projectiles, but no gun that shoots solid projectiles over 6 mm.


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Old 06-01-2011, 05:05 PM #57
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Originally Posted by Element Paintball View Post
I don't see the point of this.
What is to stop criminals from just painting their real guns bright pink, so that when an officer sees one, hes just like "oh its a bb gun, no biggy. *bang!* wow that bb really hurts."
exactly...if you pull a bright orange/pink/whatever anything on a cop he is probably gunna waste you
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Old 06-01-2011, 05:36 PM #58
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"substantially similar in coloration and overall appearance to an existing firearm as to lead a reasonable person to perceive that the device is a firearm"

Okay, so this affects milsim guys?
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Old 06-01-2011, 05:46 PM #59
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Originally Posted by rocky6987 View Post
do they not have the colored barrel tip?
I know a lot of kids painted over them, because lets face it, most kids think the orange part is lame.


And, if you have what you believe to be a firearm pointed at you do you really think that an orange tip will save your life? I'm sorry, but it's FAR to easy for me to mask off an area of my pistol and paint it neon orange for for me to not pull the trigger.
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Old 06-01-2011, 05:58 PM #60
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Our country is falling apart! This is stupid! I love my guns plain and simple and no one is gonna take them from me! Rise aginist this tyrant goverment!

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Old 06-01-2011, 06:06 PM #61
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Originally Posted by nevekd128 View Post
"substantially similar in coloration and overall appearance to an existing firearm as to lead a reasonable person to perceive that the device is a firearm"

Okay, so this affects milsim guys?
It potentially affects everyone, because that language doesn't state the conditions. Depending on the person and conditions, many things can be mistaken for firearms.

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Old 06-01-2011, 06:54 PM #62
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See below:

This page was developed to help amend or reject bill SB 798 which could affect the sport of paintball.

Description The California Legislative is trying to pass SB Bill 798 which calls for imitation firearms, a classification which would include paintball markers, to be brightly colored (i.e., orange) in order to distinguish them from real firearms. This is a serious concern to the paintball industry which could require all paintball markers in speedball and scenario play to be painted a bright color.

BILL INFO:
SB 798 (DE LEON) BB DEVICES: IMITATION FIREARMS - OPPOSE

STATE LEGISLATOR CONTACT INFORMATION:
1. Author of SB 798: Senator Kevin De Leon, State Capitol, Room 5108, Sacramento, CA 95814; (916) 651-4022; Fax916) 327-8817; Email: senator.deleon@sen.ca.gov

2. Senators and Assembly Members:
WEBSITE FOR ASSEMBLY MEMBER’S CONTACT INFORMATION:
www.leginfo.ca.gov/asm-addresses.html

WEBSITE FOR SENATOR’S CONTACT INFORMATION: www.leginfo.ca.gov/sen-addresses.html

TO LOCATE YOUR SPECIFIC SENATOR/ASSEMBLY MEMBER:
Go to 192.234.213.69/amapsearch/framepage.asp.
(read less)
The California Legislative is trying to pass SB Bill 798 which calls for imitation firearms, a classification which would include paintball markers, to be brightly colored (i.e., orange) in order to distinguish them from real firearms. This is a serious concern to the paintball industry which could require all paintball markers in speedball and scenario play to be painted a bright color.

BILL INFO:
SB 798 (DE LEON) BB DEVICES: IMITATION FIREARMS - OPPOSE

STATE LEGISLATOR CONTACT... (read more)
Mission We encourage all players in and out of California to help amend or reject this legislation by writing to Kevin De Leon, the sponsor of this bill. If you live in California, write to your senator or assembly member as well.
Website www.facebook.com/SavePaintballinCalifornia...
Please note, although no boardcode and smiley buttons are shown, they are still useable
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Old 06-01-2011, 07:00 PM #63
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soo the bill states that any imitation firearm or bb device that could be mistaken for a real one must be brightly colored or clear soo that you can see its internal workings? that basically means no more black, silver or grey paintball guns? tournament guys shouldbt be too upset by this but the milsim crowd will deffinatley take a hit.... swear u guys should just go play airsoft though
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