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Old 05-23-2011, 08:40 PM #43
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Trying to keep up with these and pack for the trip back to Texas at the same time, so forgive me if I miss some.

The Nerfs I will sum up with a simple, straightforward statement; These are paintball games. The Nerfs are intended to be the spice, not the entree. I have been to events where the rules on them were more lax than mine, allowing them to be launched into groups and fired from ridiculous distances. I feel it takes away from the paintball, and I can tell you that every player using only a launcher is a point of contention between producers and fields. Fields need to sell paint to make a profit and stay in business. The use of something that uses reusable rounds and takes out masses is not what fields like.

With all of this being considered this is why we dropped the velocity to 140fps, and why they are limited as they are. To the best of my knowledge, in a real battle you don't have a bunch of soldiers walking through firing grenade launchers at everything that moves. They are a situational weapon used when the situation arises. They also don't have a bag with 50 grenades in it, nor is it their primary weapon.

So the Nerfs in my events are situation-specific. You can't just roll through speedball sending players off by the dozen from downrange but, in the right situation, you can definitely save the day by eliminating a tank or taking out a half-down guys behind a wall...but you need infantry support to get into position (ie SOMEBODY is going to have to fire some paintballs.)

With regard to the pavilions along the temporary netline I have already mentioned that, next year, you will be able to play through them. They won't have netting around them. This should take care of all the issues with them. That field has NEVER had play there. The pavilions were NOT designed to be in play. The whole temporary netline was an experiment and, all in all, it seemed to rally help. However, like many things with a big event, it takes time to tweak it and get it as good as possible.

I HAVE seen the survey tape. It's not what I would call a bad option, but I've never been crazy about it. I'd be interested in hearing what other players think of it. Thank you for the suggestion.

Let me add this. Keep in mind that this was only the fourth year of Living Legends. This is the second year that a major tournament and a major scenario have been done on this scale. CPX was definitely NOT designed to be played as one big field. CPX only has ONE scenario event per year. When you consider all of these hurdles and more, I'm proud of what we've accomplished, and by "we" I mean Viper Paintball, CPX, and the Living Legends PLAYERS. Hard work and lots of reasonable, useful feedback has resulted in an event that the whole country talks about, and that is up there with the other few major recreational events in the country. Most of them have had many, many years to nail down their event and format, and tweak their playing area. Some have had a decade or more. We've done what we have in four short years. We will continue to work hard to improve each and every year. All we ask is that you try and offer SOLUTIONS along with the complaints, and that you keep in mind that we are not out to piss people off or show them a bad time. Why on Earth would we? Sure, part of the reward from this is that we get to pay the bills. But one of teh greatest rewards is that we get to make so many people so happy. Know that we will stay focused on that goal and continue to try our best to make Living Legends better and better.
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Old 05-23-2011, 08:41 PM #44
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Man, I wish I knew you guys needed tape. I had a couple cases of tape sitting in my warehouse. I had guys coming up on Friday, so I could have had them bring it up with them.
*facepalm*

No matter. It won't be an issue in the future...one way or another.
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Old 05-23-2011, 08:49 PM #45
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okay I understand that, and I did buy a case of paint and use it...

what about the trees tho... I mean just because it wasn't manmade doesn't mean I shouldn't be able to blow it up... If someone is pinning a group of guys down from behind a tree, wouldn't it only make sense to blow it up?


And the tanks should probably have 1 dedicated ref, unless they were supposed to and I just caught the tank at a bad time sometimes.
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Old 05-23-2011, 09:01 PM #46
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Again...using the trees as targets makes your Nerf virtually basic antipersonnel. I just don't see that being good for the game. I commanded at a game where the Nersf were antipersonnel. It just seemed silly and the players (that didn't have Nerfs) hated it as they walked off in droves from a paintball game without any paint on them.

And the tanks are supposed to have a dedicated tank walker to watch for hits, as well as the regular refs. The tank walkers weren't as diligent this year as I would like. This will be addressed next year at LL5 and we will provide a bit more...."motivation.".
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Old 05-23-2011, 09:17 PM #47
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I used my Metadyne launcher for the majority of the event as well and found that the 140 FPS was barely a limitation at all for me and, having been a 203 gunner in the Marine Corps in Iraq, can attest that you don't carry around 50 grenades with you at all times. My vest held 12 and they are HEAVY, especially on top of all the rest of your gear.

I, personally, don't like the anti-personnel idea for launchers. I like the rules that were laid out prior to the event. My only complaint about the LAW (which, can I remind you, stands for "Light Anti-tank Weapon") rules is that each ref I (and many of my team, reportedly) encountered seemed to have a different set of rules for what constituted an elimination with the rockets.
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Old 05-23-2011, 09:29 PM #48
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okay i guess that's so. and I only carry 6 Nerf rounds with me at any time.( I only had 12 total... )
I think the tank walkers thought they were only there to enforce the 20 foot rule... but you seem to be on it. Thumbs UP
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Old 05-23-2011, 09:35 PM #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SPECTRE Fox View Post
LAW (which, can I remind you, stands for "Light Anti-tank Weapon")
Hence the fact that I tend to just say "Nerf" as they tend to represent LAWs, M203s, and even FIM92 Stingers when we have a game with helicopters.

Next year I will make a laminated rule card with key points for the CPX staff refs. Perhaps that will help a bit. A lot of the inconsistencies had to do with the netted pavilions as we dealt with the new factors involved, but I know the CPX refs have a hard time as this is the only scenario event they see, with the only time they see Nerfs and such, and it's only once a year.

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...having been a 203 gunner in the Marine Corps in Iraq
Oh...and thank you for your service.
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Old 05-23-2011, 10:16 PM #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ViperScenarios View Post
It just seemed silly and the players (that didn't have Nerfs) hated it as they walked off in droves from a paintball game without any paint on them..
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I, personally, don't like the anti-personnel idea for launchers.rules is that each ref I (and many of my team, reportedly) encountered seemed to have a different set of rules for what constituted an elimination with the rockets.
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Next year I will make a laminated rule card with key points for the CPX staff refs. Perhaps that will help a bit.
I only have two complaints:

The Nerf launchers. One time it kills the whole building in Bedlam, the next time it's just 10 feet outside and inside the walls. So a rocket to each building by the entrance nearest staging area wiped out 50+ players, no paint on them. One ref says you're alive, the next says the whole building is dead. Sketchy at best. The pocket sized rule cards sound like a great idea.

The armband tape. No, not that there wasn't enough or that it isn't a good system, but the fact that it confused me and a lot of others that I talked to. I was Red Team, Green Gang. Cool. Then I'd see Red Team, Blue Gang, er wait are they Blue Team, Red Gang? I LOVED the gang battles. In the future, I suggest not making GANG tape the same color as either TEAM tape.

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Old 05-23-2011, 10:18 PM #51
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Hence the fact that I tend to just say "Nerf" as they tend to represent LAWs, M203s, and even FIM92 Stingers when we have a game with helicopters.
Roger that. I was backing you in the anti-AP thing, but I know where you're coming from.
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Old 05-23-2011, 10:30 PM #52
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Quote:
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I only have two complaints:

The Nerf launchers. One time it kills the whole building in Bedlam, the next time it's just 10 feet outside and inside the walls. So a rocket to each building by the entrance nearest staging area wiped out 50+ players, no paint on them. One ref says you're alive, the next says the whole building is dead. Sketchy at best. The pocket sized rule cards sound like a great idea.

The armband tape. No, not that there wasn't enough or that it isn't a good system, but the fact that it confused me and a lot of others that I talked to. I was Red Team, Green Gang. Cool. Then I'd see Red Team, Blue Gang, er wait are they Blue Team, Red Gang? I LOVED the gang battles. In the future, I suggest not making GANG tape the same color as either TEAM tape.

Jay
Both of these issues that have been addressed, and solutions already in the works. We appreciate the input, but I would ask that everyone read the entire thread before posting and, if it's already been addressed, and you have no new suggestions, please refrain from adding any "me too's." I am going to go through this entire thread when I get back home so the less repeats the better I will be able to work on a good list of issues and all of their possible solutions.

Please don't take offense at this...I'm just trying to keep things concise and efficient so we can be as productive as possible with the input and not miss anything.
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Old 05-23-2011, 11:02 PM #53
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Please don't take offense at this...I'm just trying to keep things concise and efficient so we can be as productive as possible with the input and not miss anything.
I'm so offended.

Viper, next year you just need to jump in the CCM Pump Night games. If anyone asks, just say you went out to buy more armband tape.

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Old 05-24-2011, 12:30 AM #54
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I'm so offended.

Viper, next year you just need to jump in the CCM Pump Night games. If anyone asks, just say you went out to buy more armband tape.

Jay
But if they switch to a different armband material hes screwed!
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Old 05-24-2011, 02:16 AM #55
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*facepalm*

No matter. It won't be an issue in the future...one way or another.
You might give the surveyor tape a go at the September game at Cousins. It is enough smaller that a test run would be more feasible than at a much larger game such as LL.

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Old 05-24-2011, 02:19 AM #56
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It would save a lot of frustration for everyone and make it a Better Game if you went to marking the Nerf hits on Tank, Building, etc. It is very OLD technology way back when we first started using Nerf instead of sabot rounds of paintballs in a cup.



Hunter's Orange works much better than Blue.

The controversy back then was that it was too easy to kill a tank from a distance using the Nerf Rockets. Wasn't fair to the tanks. Sound familiar? I've heard it a LOT on the forums lately from TOO MANY RPGs showing up at game and the tanks spending the day in the dead zone and not having fun. 'Taint fair to the tanks.' They have a point you've tried to address in your games.

Way back then, we had to mark a 2 foot square target to kill a tank. We got POINTS for killing tanks so it was important we register our tank kills. We did it largely without refs and tank walkers too. Mark the hits and the honor system between the tanks and anti tank players worked.

First, the RPG player wouldn't have to announce that he was about to shoot a tank or something and get everyone's attention EXCEPT the Ref. If you are into realistic simulations, no anti tank player would ever disclose his position to the other side before firing. Marking hits would solve that problem. You take your shot and the ref looks for the mark. Even if a ref is not available, or attending to something else at the time, an honorable tank crew will see and honor a mark.

Spice as you say.... Makes it a whole lot BETTER... We can go play plain old vanilla paintball at our local rec field for a lot less money..... Spice is why we drive hundreds of miles to a scenario game. For a unique paintball experience. Tanks, bazooka, helicopters, All Spice.
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Old 05-24-2011, 02:29 AM #57
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Way back then, we had to mark a 2 foot square target to kill a tank. We got POINTS for killing tanks so it was important we register our tank kills. We did it largely without refs and tank walkers too. Mark the hits and the honor system between the tanks and anti tank players worked.
we do this at my homefield, Fox. Works really well, makes it fun for tanks and the nerf launcher players to have something sweet to shoot for. Pyroman gives out shirts to anyone who has a confirmed tank kill.

Also for the players who don't have a law, we have little boxes on the hoods facing towards the front that have a hole just a little bit bigger then a paintball. This is called a killbox. If you shoot the kill box dead on, it will flip a switch. Thusly an alarm would go off in the box, now signaling it is dead.
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Old 05-24-2011, 02:54 AM #58
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An idea I've seen work on large structures that you want to require MORE than one RPG hit to destroy. Like in Bedlam.

Played another game where they spray painted a O to mark each section that had to be destroyed with a number inside the circle to indicate how many sections had to be hit for the objective to be destroyed. That worked well.

Also played a game with mobile homes to play in. If we hit the outside, we got that half. Problematic as some of the players would run into the other half before the ref got there. Pretty much had to have refs IN the building. BUT if we put the Nerf THROUGH a Window or Doorway, we got the whole building.....
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Old 05-24-2011, 04:42 AM #59
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It seems the use of nerfs is big issue, both on the pro and con side. Why not limit how many a player can carry? As JOESPUD27 said, any vet can tell you who has used them, real granades are Heavy. Limit the number of nerfs a grenadier can carry, or limit the ammo available to a side. You wont see them used like jelly beans if your side only has 50- 75 to use in a day. Also you have engineers on the feild, why not let the commanders have a certain number of 'Hardened bunker' cards that an engineer can make the building immune to nerfs? It stays that way until another engineer can blow it up with explosives. This way a key spot in thier plans can not be negated by a 3 dollar piece of foam.
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Old 05-24-2011, 07:32 AM #60
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It seems the use of nerfs is big issue, both on the pro and con side. Why not limit how many a player can carry? As JOESPUD27 said, any vet can tell you who has used them, real granades are Heavy.
I agree with your post, but I wanted to clarify that I'm not a Veteran and I've never carried real grenades before. The ONE grenade I was intrusted with at LL4 I tossed wrong and almost took out our side of the ATF van in Bedlam.

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Old 05-24-2011, 08:30 AM #61
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The only complaint that I had at the event was with refs when I was taking out buildings with my LAW in bedlam. Got my but lit up but I ran into a building before I saw the ref come out (My fault)

Overall I had a blast even though all I ran with was my Havoc. I had no problem finding guys that would lay cover fire to get me into an area where I could do some damage.

I do like one of the suggestions on here to have water at the hospital or base. It is pro-active in keeping guys on the field hydrated. I would gladly pay $5 extra to get a laminated card to hang with my ID card so that I would be able to grab a drink in the hospital and get out and play.
It is not that I don't like walking back to the staging area but sometimes it is a pain when you want to play and you know that you NEED a drink and some food NOW!
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Old 05-24-2011, 09:41 AM #62
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It seems the use of nerfs is big issue, both on the pro and con side. Why not limit how many a player can carry? As JOESPUD27 said, any vet can tell you who has used them, real granades are Heavy. Limit the number of nerfs a grenadier can carry, or limit the ammo available to a side. You wont see them used like jelly beans if your side only has 50- 75 to use in a day. Also you have engineers on the feild, why not let the commanders have a certain number of 'Hardened bunker' cards that an engineer can make the building immune to nerfs? It stays that way until another engineer can blow it up with explosives. This way a key spot in thier plans can not be negated by a 3 dollar piece of foam.
I've played games where you have to get a card from your commander that has a limited number of shots on the card and a ref punches the card when you take a shot. You can only carry one card at a time and don't know if your command is going to have any more when you get back to base, so you play more conservatively with your rockets.
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Old 05-24-2011, 09:48 AM #63
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The amount of Nerfs/Rockets a player could carry should be limited. At some events we have been to, the Generals are given a limited number of cards, say six (6) each day, which allows them to make use of rockets, when these cards are depleted, that's it, no more rockets for that side. The amount of Nerfs/rockets for tanks however is different but can also be limited, like in a real tank, it can only carry so many.
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