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Old 05-23-2011, 04:31 PM #22
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Great event, thanks CPX and Viper. We can't wait for next year.
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Old 05-23-2011, 04:49 PM #23
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The tape issue was an oversight on two issues.

1) I contacted CPX well before the event and asked if they had the red and blue tape. Paul had been told there was plenty, so I didn't pack any. That was my bad. I should have packed it anyway. When I asked for it Friday we found they had almost none. CPX sent out people to scour Joliet for it. They bought what they could find. However, with a thousand players it takes a LOT of tape.I told them to use half strips so it would last since there was no real last minute option that seemed reasonable. On Sunday I still had to send a ref outside Joliet to find TWO more Menards locations and buy all THEY had. Next year I will simply order it and bring them the invoice, along with enough tape, and everyone will be wearing a two inch strip on their LEFT arm.

2) The secondary tape was a new thing. Considering I needed TEN colors I ordered what is available, so some colors are going to be similar. A GREAT suggestion was made by a player that, if we do this format again, we should have the SIDE tape on the left arm and the GANG tape on the right. It makes great sense, and I wish I had thought of it. But we will use that suggestion if we have dual tape again.

As far as water goes, that was CPX's department, and they had girls on golf carts driving all over the site selling ice cold water. I saw them MANY times. Hard to complain about water delivered to you by pretty girls.
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Old 05-23-2011, 04:58 PM #24
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I wasn't there for living legends, but I was there for nppl and thats what impressed me. You guys ran both event amazingly from what I saw. I honestly cant think of another field in the midwest that can run 2 massive events like these simultaneously. So good job Paul and Mike along with the rest of the cpx crew.
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Old 05-23-2011, 05:00 PM #25
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The water girls were not on the play field. Something great would be "water tickets" similar to paint tickets. Each gets you a bottle of water at a resertion point.

Other than that, fantastic event yet again. Thank you Paul and Viper
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Old 05-23-2011, 05:04 PM #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IntenseImage View Post
The water girls were not on the play field. Something great would be "water tickets" similar to paint tickets. Each gets you a bottle of water at a resertion point.
Interesting...

On an unrelated note, the pavilions on the temporary netline will be set up next year so that you can play through them instead of around them.
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Old 05-23-2011, 05:08 PM #27
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I never once saw water available on the field, if it was I am sorry I must have just not been lucky enough to find some. It is just something that would help to prevent dehydration and to ensure happy and repeat customers.

As far as the tape, I heard a completely different story... but I guess that is how those things go. Regardless of the blame game, I just have to ask, is there a particular reason that Viper Scenario's cannot use a better method than tape? I understand tape has been a prominent marker for many years, and that it is still a preferred method for local fields, but for such a well known (kudos to you for making it so) scenario event - why not have a more improved method for distinguishing teams? Am I incorrect to say that other scenarios, even larger than Legends have done so quite successfully?
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Old 05-23-2011, 05:10 PM #28
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To expand on the water tickets ... a laminated punch tag to go along w/ your player ID. $5 gives you a card for 5 bottles as the card is punched as you get bottles.
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Old 05-23-2011, 05:13 PM #29
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I'll start with what I liked:

EVERYTHING except one very specific issue!

What I didn't like:

Registration was closed from 1pm - 4pm with no advance notice prior to the event. The only way to know it would be closed during these hours was from reading the signs posted at the registration windows.

I could not be there due to work prior to 1pm. I drove 1.5 hours to be there, and then had to wait several hours to play (there was no sympathy from the people in the pro-shop). Had I known in advance, I could have planned accordingly.

My suggestion is to publicise in advance if there are going to be hours during the event that any services (registration, rentals, air, paint, etc.) are going to be unavialble so players can plan accodringly.

My work schedule is unpredictable and often times I'm showing up well after the event has started. Why would I come if I have to take my chances and hope that I don't have to sit around for several hours waiting to play. Making the registration hours (or lack there of) known in advance mitigates this issue. Otherwise it's a show stopper for me.
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Old 05-23-2011, 05:30 PM #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LU_aDaK View Post
I understand tape has been a prominent marker for many years, and that it is still a preferred method for local fields, but for such a well known (kudos to you for making it so) scenario event - why not have a more improved method for distinguishing teams?
2" tape has been used by Wayne Dollack (the world's first professional scenario producer) for twenty years. When I started in 1996 as the second professional scenario producer I used it. I was followed by MXS, and Black Cat, who used it. Most scenarios I have played used it.

However, while you have made some vague references I haven't heard any concrete ideas from you. I have seen a lot of things tried in my twenty-plus year of playing. It was usually to save a few pennies (that tape is over seven bucks a role plus shipping) Most seemed to fail from what I saw. 2" duct tape fits ALL sizes, it stays flat (if you are using the entire 2" width) and (for the most part) stays put.

Fabric bands would fall off, roll up and become a hard-to-see rope, or come untied and get lost. "Stretchy fabric sleeves" would be difficult as we have little kids and girls with tiny arms and buff or rotund guys with twenty four inch biceps.

But if you have seen something that works better I am always open to suggestions. I'm all ears. What do you have in mind? You come up with something that you guarantee will work better, and that is reasonable and affordable, and I will personally pay for your registration to LL5. How's that?
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Old 05-23-2011, 05:30 PM #31
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I really cant see CPX being at any fault for not selling water at the feild entrances. The PLAYERS know they are going to be running around, sweating, and burning calories. The PLAYERS need to take some personal responsability and take care of thier personal needs. I dont mean to come off as uncaring, but if you dont take the time to hydrate or eat, the it sucks to be you. If playing the game means more than your personal well being and health then you have some serious issues. ITS ONLY A GAME!!!! (all be it a great one)
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Old 05-23-2011, 05:36 PM #32
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Friday night "Pump event" was where I had the most fun the entire weekend, not to mention one of my team-mates won the CCM pump so that was an added bonus. It is nice to see them have an "event" for only the pump guys, and everyone that was playing had a great attitude. after matches guys were finding the people who long balled them and congratulating them on their nice shot.
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Old 05-23-2011, 05:38 PM #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IntenseImage View Post
To expand on the water tickets ... a laminated punch tag to go along w/ your player ID. $5 gives you a card for 5 bottles as the card is punched as you get bottles.
That's a really good idea. I find myself walking back to the staging area for water sometimes even when I want to play longer.
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Old 05-23-2011, 05:46 PM #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snoograss View Post
Friday night "Pump event" was where I had the most fun the entire weekend, not to mention one of my team-mates won the CCM pump so that was an added bonus. It is nice to see them have an "event" for only the pump guys, and everyone that was playing had a great attitude. after matches guys were finding the people who long balled them and congratulating them on their nice shot.
I really (RREEEEAAALLLYYYY) wanted to jump on the field and play that part!

Rest assured that it will be a staple of LL in the future. I already got CCM to agree to sponsor it again at LL5. This year we had nearly 70 pump players. Next year let's break a hundred!
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Old 05-23-2011, 06:45 PM #35
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LAW issues

1. my first complaint was that at times it seemed that I couldn't find a Ref when using my LAW against the tank. The very first time I saw the Tiyanak, I couldn't find a ref anywhere, so I couldn't eliminate it, because I shot them, hit them, but they couldn't apparently hear or see the hit. I called myself out and informed them of the hit, to no avail.At the time there were no refs with the tank. When the refs were with the tank, sometimes they were behind the tank. This means that to get a ref i would need to call attention to my position before firing the LAW, making it much more difficult to fire without being eliminated. After that I just shot the Tiyanak 2 times, once to make the refs aware of my presence, and then once again to take it out.

2. I understand that the rules say that a direct hit is necesary to eliminate bunkers and such But I think that if I drop a LAW right next to a bunker it probably should be dead. I'm not asking for a nebulous ruling, but a solid line, say within 5 ft of the bunker?

3. Why is a netted pavilion that enemies are hiding behind safe from elimination by LAW?

4. Any way you could designate some NERF rounds as Antipersonel rounds. I don't want to shoot at people, but the 20 ft rule seems pretty short. AP rounds blow with a 30 ft radius on a frag device, and a 40 ft radius in a Thermobaric device.(Thermobaric also take out small structures using overpressure waves.)


Sorry about all the LAW questions, but that was my primary weapon for the weekend so it is kinda important to me.


Other than these(mostly not complaints, just suggestions/questions)
I found this to be a very awesome event, and I had tons of fun at it.

Also why can I not blow up trees?
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Old 05-23-2011, 07:00 PM #36
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Old 05-23-2011, 07:11 PM #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ViperScenarios View Post
But if you have seen something that works better I am always open to suggestions. I'm all ears. What do you have in mind? You come up with something that you guarantee will work better, and that is reasonable and affordable, and I will personally pay for your registration to LL5. How's that?
What about surveyors tape on the front and the back of the mask?
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Old 05-23-2011, 07:11 PM #38
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I didn't attend this year.

Players don't like standing in line. Actually I don't know anybody that does. So minimize those as best you can.

Walk around with a megaphone and TELL people to get chronoed EARLY to avoid the RUSH and get in on the START of the game.

You wouldn't think you wouldn't have to teach players how to chrono for a scenario game, but MANY players go to the chrono line without already getting the velocity set.

So in your pre registration/registration packet/website/megaphone Friday night, Sat morning, etc. Tell them to set their marker velocity before they go for the official chono Check on game day.

They have to be Taught that and BOOT anyone out of the chrono area that has to work on their marker to get the velocity set. Go work on your marker and go to the end of the line. Sorry if you didn't bring your velocity tool that came with the marker. Go see a vendor or the pro shop....

Working on markers CLOGS the chrono lines.... Boot them out.

They will LEARN to BE READY to PLAY...... Maybe add a new scenario players checklist to the website. I know, they don't bother to read the rules either but a FEW will....

Ditto WATER on the Field. Problematic. Some players are inexperienced and get dehydrated out of stupidity but it happens. I went to one brutally hot game where you would think the DAD who dropped from dehydration would have checked his two boys. All three dropped and had to be carried off the field and to the hospital for IVs . The field has some responsibility to make players aware of this factor and especially on HOT game days. I have been at games where they STOPPED the game for an hour just to get everyone off the field and rehydrated.

Again players have to learn to stay hydrated but the field needs to try and teach them. Give them the information. Bring your own in a book bag at the insertion station. Want it cool? Freeze three or four of them SOLID. ONE frozen bottle will keep 8 regular bottles cool all day in a bag wrapped in a beach towel.

Otherwise, SELL water and Gatoraide WITH STRAWS so you can drink it mask down if the insertion point is a mask on area....... If they didn't bring money onto the field, it will remind them that they need to be hydrated if they remember they are thirsty.... Charge them well as payment for the tuition lesson to bring your own.... You will have to pay staff to collect money and control inventory...or Let your favorite Scout troop staff the watering holes and keep the profits.....

Did Viper go with the 150 fps Nerf rule change at this game? I would like to hear if that change accomplished what Viper hoped it would. Namely allowing more RPG players to be in the game while improving the survivability of the tanks by having infantry within marker range of the RPG player.

Did it work more or less? How?
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Old 05-23-2011, 07:13 PM #39
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Only complaint was at the pavillion. get rid of it all together or net off on the right side so there isnt a narrow corridor right there. other than that reffing was amazing
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Old 05-23-2011, 07:48 PM #40
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Great weekend overall but everything can be improved.

The biggest problem i noticed all weekend was not all the refs were on the same page concerning the rules. Mostly the LAW rules to be getting mixed up. Also before the dinner battle we were told we could go 20 ft into the woods. a few people were kicked out saying no going into the woods at all. i was told on the field by 4 different refs that you could go in. it just caused some confusion.

and don't get me wrong. i'm not saying reffing was bad. overall that was some of the best reffing i've seen for these types of events. nearly all the refs with the exception of a handful RAN to every call. anytime someone called for a paintcheck, there was no debating with the player they just checked it and made the call. also i saw a few players trying to change a refs mind about a call and they stook with their call. which is the way it should be. yeah, sometimes a ref makes a bad call but deal with it, not the end of the world.

like everyone else that was there, i loved the pump game. some of the most fun i've had in a game. the only thing that i didn't understand was... why no arm tape? i got shot a few times by team mates and i understand that does happen sometimes. but with only 30 on 30 on the bedlam field? happened a little too often. arm tape could help with that.

the water thing... didn't think it was a problem. many people have the right idea and throw a water bottle in their harness. you could do the same. but i did not however know the girls driving in the golf carts were selling water. i saw a sign on one of them that said "booze cart" so i assumed that's what they were all selling. also i never saw them drive around the staging area at all. i only saw them in the trade show for nppl.

oh last thing. the medic rule. i saw too many people waiting WAY longer than a minute for a medic. 1. either people didn't know you only had a minute to wait, or it wasn't being enforced. i thought it was in the rules you only had about a minute to get healed. and 2. there were not enough medics. i only saw one once that was anywhere near me the handful of times i got shot. and it just so happened that time i got shot in the mask... so he couldn't help lol.

Overall it was a great weekend and i hope our team goes again. thanks viper and cpx!
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Old 05-23-2011, 08:00 PM #41
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as viper said during the orientation, the medic wait is flexible, if you are not in some dangerous position and it's just waiting on the medic to make the rounds its ok to wait a little longer. if say 4 people were hit and the medic can't hear the guy on the far left, he heals the other three, then realizes that other people are calling for a medic too, runs over there and heals the 4th guy.
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Old 05-23-2011, 08:13 PM #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ViperScenarios View Post
The tape issue was an oversight on two issues.
Man, I wish I knew you guys needed tape. I had a couple cases of tape sitting in my warehouse. I had guys coming up on Friday, so I could have had them bring it up with them.
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