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Old 05-02-2011, 01:16 PM #1
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MWXL Event #2 D3, What Do You Want?

What's Up Everybody,

So with the first MWXL event behind us without an X-ball event (AGAIN!!!), we would like to get some feedback….

We here at the MWXL strive to put out a great product (tournament series) driven by the wants/needs of our customers (YOU MOFO’s). However, after taking prior feedback into consideration and to the best of our ability making those wants/needs a reality while, still remaining somewhat profitable… the turnout is still minimal. In my opinion, this could be for quite a few reasons however, we think the main reason is $$$$$$$$$$$$$!!!!!

With the first MWXL event just ending, here comes NPPL Chicago and right after PSP Chicago. So we think there’s a struggle with teams wanting a local series but, sacrifice not playing them to focus their finances on Nationals… we get it. Besides the cost of entry, the next major expense for an X-Ball team is Paint! So we understand it’s hard coming up with those same expenses back, to back to back…. not to mention for some, the cost of travel, food etc… Again, We Get It.

With that said, we always seem to have a pretty decent turnout for 5-Man. Is it because the entry is just low enough for teams to want to play while walking away with a decent prize if you win… along with the fact that you shoot a lot less paint? So we would like to throw this out to see what you think…

D3 5-Man (race to 2)
$400 Entry
(2) D2 Players Allowed on a roster

1st Place $850
2nd Place $475
3rd Place $350
4th TBD (This means “To Be Determined” for the slow folks)

There would be a minimum of 12 teams required for this prize package BUT, at 16 teams the prizes ramp up!!!

1st Place $1,000
2nd Place $600
3rd Place $400
4th TBD (This means “To Be Determined” for the slow folks)


Please Post Up With Your Thoughts And Or Ideas
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Old 05-02-2011, 01:40 PM #2
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i definitely think that the ideas you're coming up with are great. Now i can only speak for my own experience but i've realized its difficult to get a solid line of 5 reliable players consistently throughout a series event. with that said the jump up to d3 xball would be even more difficult as you would need to find at least another 3 more reliable players (both on the field and financially) so i would definitely love to see some d3 5 man as i plan on moving up to that division. again... speaking for myself.
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Old 05-02-2011, 03:47 PM #3
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Janssen and crew always working hard to satisfy the players!!

Would really like to see some D3 teams get in on this event. 20 teams for D4 is the strongest turn-out now for 1 or 2 seasons. I think that D4 alone this event had more teams than any combined D3 and D4 single event turnouts at the CTS/MWXL all season last year. That says a lot for this league and the decisions made during the winter to modify certain aspects.

See you all at Pekin on June 5th!! Get your **** together D3!!!
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Old 05-02-2011, 09:10 PM #4
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I know I personally dont have any problem playing D3x or D3 5 man,I just want to play some of the other d3 teams that are in the midwest, which I know are quite a few...even with PSP chitown shortly after MWXL event 2, i hope we see a fair amount of D3 teams
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Old 05-02-2011, 09:21 PM #5
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not a bad idea
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Old 05-02-2011, 09:59 PM #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BudoBujitsu View Post
I know I personally dont have any problem playing D3x or D3 5 man,I just want to play some of the other d3 teams that are in the midwest, which I know are quite a few...even with PSP chitown shortly after MWXL event 2, i hope we see a fair amount of D3 teams

You and I both baby


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not a bad idea
Thanks, I'm glad you think so. You mind running it up the flag pole at Camp Savage? We would love to see you guys there.
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Old 05-02-2011, 10:22 PM #7
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I know nothing is final yet, and I don't know what good it would do to ask for more prize money... but I'll try anyways.

Okay, so... D3 is $100 more for entry than D4. And there's a minimum of 12 teams for both events to happen. That means that is both divisions have 12 teams, the league would be getting $1200 more from D3.

With that being said, I think the prizes should be proportional to the entry paid. D3 should have an even bigger price gap than D4 to pursuade the D4 teams to bump up and reduce sandbagging D4 (not that it's a problem now).

Therefore, since D3 brings in $1200 more than D4, I think the extra $1200 should be spread around the prize package. I noticed the D3 prizes are a little bigger than the D4 prizes, but why pay an extra $100, just to play for a prize that's $100 more than D4's (comparing 1st place in each division)? See what I mean?

Just brainstorming, but if you want a good turnout in D3, more of a reason to move up the divisions, and make an overall more attractive series/event, I feel like adding money to the prize package would only attract more teams (especially from states outside of Illinois) and pay for itself with the extra teams.

Also, to further clarify... I realize that if D4 has 20 teams, the league would be getting more $$ from D4. Obviously D4 should then get more prize money if D3 only had 12 teams. But the way it is now, D3 is less financially smart than D4 becase of the way the entry matches up with the prizes.

Just my 2 cents. Anyone else agree/disagree? I've tried to say this in the past, but I didn't fully say what I meant.

Obviously the players wont argue with more money to play for, but this post is directed more towards the league as a way to attract more teams to the weak D3 turnouts.
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Old 05-03-2011, 03:58 PM #8
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Originally Posted by jacapbinc View Post
Thanks, I'm glad you think so. You mind running it up the flag pole at Camp Savage? We would love to see you guys there.
haha will do
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Old 05-03-2011, 09:05 PM #9
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I vote NOT getting rid of xball. How can midwest Xball teams grow in numbers if there is no tournaments to play?

You cant give up on it just that easy. I dont know why you didnt host it with only 3 teams in the first place. Its a low turnout, but you have to start somewhere. I mean why not keep entry fee the same as 5man? It doesnt hurt the league, you dont have to pay more refs and youre arnt losing much money.

Its money thats keeping teams from signing up, but its also the fact that there are no tournaments to play in.

You gotta start somewhere, getting rid of the only midwest xball raceto4 division isnt the way to get more xball teams.
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Old 05-03-2011, 10:03 PM #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MWplayer View Post
I know nothing is final yet, and I don't know what good it would do to ask for more prize money... but I'll try anyways.

Okay, so... D3 is $100 more for entry than D4. And there's a minimum of 12 teams for both events to happen. That means that is both divisions have 12 teams, the league would be getting $1200 more from D3.

With that being said, I think the prizes should be proportional to the entry paid. D3 should have an even bigger price gap than D4 to pursuade the D4 teams to bump up and reduce sandbagging D4 (not that it's a problem now).

Therefore, since D3 brings in $1200 more than D4, I think the extra $1200 should be spread around the prize package. I noticed the D3 prizes are a little bigger than the D4 prizes, but why pay an extra $100, just to play for a prize that's $100 more than D4's (comparing 1st place in each division)? See what I mean?

Just brainstorming, but if you want a good turnout in D3, more of a reason to move up the divisions, and make an overall more attractive series/event, I feel like adding money to the prize package would only attract more teams (especially from states outside of Illinois) and pay for itself with the extra teams.

Also, to further clarify... I realize that if D4 has 20 teams, the league would be getting more $$ from D4. Obviously D4 should then get more prize money if D3 only had 12 teams. But the way it is now, D3 is less financially smart than D4 becase of the way the entry matches up with the prizes.

Just my 2 cents. Anyone else agree/disagree? I've tried to say this in the past, but I didn't fully say what I meant.

Obviously the players wont argue with more money to play for, but this post is directed more towards the league as a way to attract more teams to the weak D3 turnouts.
Although it took me reading this quite a few times... I see where you're coming from. However, the prize package ramps up to $1,000 if just for more teams sign up over the minimum... Here is where your incentive lies for bumping up to D3. Although if a team is content with sanbaging a division, no incentive will get them out (my thoughts).

The whole object of this is, to bring about a GREAT series that people want to play, while at the same time remaining somewhat profitable. If we give away all of the entry as prizes, who covers the overhead? Where is the ROI?


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I vote NOT getting rid of xball. How can midwest Xball teams grow in numbers if there is no tournaments to play?

You cant give up on it just that easy. I dont know why you didnt host it with only 3 teams in the first place. Its a low turnout, but you have to start somewhere. I mean why not keep entry fee the same as 5man? It doesnt hurt the league, you dont have to pay more refs and youre arnt losing much money.

Its money thats keeping teams from signing up, but its also the fact that there are no tournaments to play in.

You gotta start somewhere, getting rid of the only midwest xball raceto4 division isnt the way to get more xball teams.
This is by no means an attack on you so; please don't take it as such...

Is it safe to assume that you are part of one of the three teams that paid to play? Not sure what you mean by giving up easy... this has been an ongoing battle for some time now. Every year, you (The Player) calls for this and or that, we initiate it and guess what, SOS (Same Old ****!). No teams sign up, or we get the usual suspects…. the ones that actually want a Midwest X-Ball League (i.e. BOOM, Wise Guys, Distortion, Fury etc.).

Also, running a X-Ball event with 3 teams is not even an option. Again, you have to consider our overhead. While you see it as just having enough refs and what not, you have to consider the overhead, including behind the scene. Like the people that have to be paid to set up and breakdown the field we would need to put up for those 3 teams. And please don't suggest we run those games on one field in between D4 games... we had 20 teams turn out for D4!

Not pissed and again, I apologize if I come off as such. Wait! Yes, Yes I am pissed, just not with you. I get sick of MOFO'S waving the flag for an X-Ball series and being to CAT (aka *****) to sign up! Then when **** gets canceled... here comes the "Boo Woo, we don't have any tourney scene in the MW!
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Old 05-03-2011, 11:56 PM #11
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I have been involved in the industry from playing, to operating a store; to helping promoting tournaments myself so I can understand the frustration with trying to promote a series. I as a player appreciate the effort that’s being given.

Siege didn’t play the first of the series but, we have signed up/paid/played in them in the past. We unfortunately were unable to come to the last on due to scheduling but, would be willing to make an effort to play the future xball events.

Overall, I think the tournament package that you had put together for the last MWXL was great, we would’ve played it. It was easy to register, cost effective, a moderate distance within the region and at a nice facility. Honestly, not much to change. A small increase in prizes is obviously not going to make the difference. The difference needs to come deeper than that.

Another option is to force teams to try the new format. Change D4 5-man to D4 Raceto4 forcing teams to get experience and make the jump. I can understand how teams in D4 would find a hard time jumping blindly into a format that they have never tried. Yes, I understand that playing local tournaments is partially about jumping into things you haven’t tried. But, with the high expense of xball and not a lot of experience with actually playing matches, a local team’s ability to compete diminishes. No one wants to play a tournament they don’t think they can win. Teams need the confidence that they can be prepared to win, to sign up for tournaments. This confidence could be boosted by having more xball practice matches. This is hard for a large field that has so many teams who come out but, could be very effective. I ran xball scrimmages several years ago and could easily find 6-8 teams willing to participate, and help ref. I ran them in a round robin system and it was a lot of fun and good experience for everyone.

Anyways those were just my thoughts. I think what you guys are trying is great and we will make an effort to attend the rest of the xball ones.

Thanks.
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Old 05-04-2011, 01:16 AM #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaimkorean View Post
I have been involved in the industry from playing, to operating a store; to helping promoting tournaments myself so I can understand the frustration with trying to promote a series. I as a player appreciate the effort that’s being given.

Siege didn’t play the first of the series but, we have signed up/paid/played in them in the past. We unfortunately were unable to come to the last on due to scheduling but, would be willing to make an effort to play the future xball events.

Overall, I think the tournament package that you had put together for the last MWXL was great, we would’ve played it. It was easy to register, cost effective, a moderate distance within the region and at a nice facility. Honestly, not much to change. A small increase in prizes is obviously not going to make the difference. The difference needs to come deeper than that.

Another option is to force teams to try the new format. Change D4 5-man to D4 Raceto4 forcing teams to get experience and make the jump. I can understand how teams in D4 would find a hard time jumping blindly into a format that they have never tried. Yes, I understand that playing local tournaments is partially about jumping into things you haven’t tried. But, with the high expense of xball and not a lot of experience with actually playing matches, a local team’s ability to compete diminishes. No one wants to play a tournament they don’t think they can win. Teams need the confidence that they can be prepared to win, to sign up for tournaments. This confidence could be boosted by having more xball practice matches. This is hard for a large field that has so many teams who come out but, could be very effective. I ran xball scrimmages several years ago and could easily find 6-8 teams willing to participate, and help ref. I ran them in a round robin system and it was a lot of fun and good experience for everyone.

Anyways those were just my thoughts. I think what you guys are trying is great and we will make an effort to attend the rest of the xball ones.

Thanks.
I think that would be a smart idea, however the time between points would have to be increased and it should be lowed to raceto2. A lot of the D4 teams that play dont have enough players to field multiple lines because its just a few guys getting together to play. I think if they did something like 4 min. between matches they could pull it off. Plus a lot of new teams dont have a good paint sponsorship if any at all, so it will cost almost as much for paint as the prize itself.

I like where your head is at.
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Old 05-04-2011, 08:21 AM #13
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THIS IS JUST MY OPINION.

Having played for 23 years and have seen many changes throughout the industry i feel we may need to look at this a different way.

It was great to see all the D4 teams show up and play the event. 20 teams was alot. I think it sucks we couldn't get enough D3 teams to come out.

I think the teams that have made it to the D3 level are looking to a grander scale than say msxl or mwxl. Their focus is now on playing the national level and not so much the regional / local stuff. As we all know it takes alot of money to play at the national level, so certain scarifies need to be made. That comes in the form of playing less events and again the first to cross off are the local / regional ones. Now, Iknow of many new 5man teams that have formed over the last year or two. They play small local 5man events, but would like to move up to the regional events. Many of these temas will not though because they cannot come in and compete with the D4 teams that have been playing the events. Since D4 is the lowest level division currently being used.
I would suggest that a Beginner/D5 division be added to the mwxl, drop the D3 division (just for now). Each beginner/D5 team can roster one D4 player and the rest of regular PSP rules apply. Many of these teams are not looking or big payouts, just a chance to play a large tourney, get some experience in doing so, and get their teams name out there.
The MWXL wants to be know as a feeder league for the PSP, well if that is the case then we need to start with the most basic of teams we have and start building from their. I would rather see 16-18 D4 teams, and 16-18 D5/beginner teams at an event than only 3-4 D3 teams. I also feel it would be more profitable for the league in the long run.

4 D3 teams paying $400 entry = $1600
16 D5 teams paying $250 entry = $4000
16 D4 teams $300 entry = $4800

D5 awards/ prizes of either medal or trophies for 1st-3rd place cost =$300

Again this is just my opinion, and I talk to alot of the smaller, newer 5man teams around the state. This is what I hear from them why they don't enter into an event like the MWXL.
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Old 05-08-2011, 05:47 PM #14
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I feel that it may be worth giving xball another shot due to the fact that PSP Chicago is a few weeks after the event. More teams might be willing to play to get that extra practice/experience in. This could go the other way as well, meaning teams don't play so that they can save up their funds. So either way I guess it's still a wager.

I know one of biggest factors that affected my teams decision to not play the first event was the fact that only 2 prelim games were guaranteed. This has been brought up before, but I really feel that it is something to consider, especially with the drive that some of the teams have to make. The teams that may be on the border of whether to play or not might be influenced to play if they know they will be getting more out of it.

I do like the D3 5 man idea though and would definately be supportive of it if xball ends up falling through. Sorry if any of this was already said I didn't read all of the other posts.
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Old 05-10-2011, 10:01 AM #15
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Quote:
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I feel that it may be worth giving xball another shot due to the fact that PSP Chicago is a few weeks after the event. More teams might be willing to play to get that extra practice/experience in. This could go the other way as well, meaning teams don't play so that they can save up their funds. So either way I guess it's still a wager.

I know one of biggest factors that affected my teams decision to not play the first event was the fact that only 2 prelim games were guaranteed. This has been brought up before, but I really feel that it is something to consider, especially with the drive that some of the teams have to make. The teams that may be on the border of whether to play or not might be influenced to play if they know they will be getting more out of it.

I do like the D3 5 man idea though and would definately be supportive of it if xball ends up falling through. Sorry if any of this was already said I didn't read all of the other posts.
Not that it needs to be repeated, but I agree with this post haha.
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Old 05-10-2011, 11:50 AM #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRAGONIntimidator888 View Post
I feel that it may be worth giving xball another shot due to the fact that PSP Chicago is a few weeks after the event. More teams might be willing to play to get that extra practice/experience in. This could go the other way as well, meaning teams don't play so that they can save up their funds. So either way I guess it's still a wager.

I know one of biggest factors that affected my teams decision to not play the first event was the fact that only 2 prelim games were guaranteed. This has been brought up before, but I really feel that it is something to consider, especially with the drive that some of the teams have to make. The teams that may be on the border of whether to play or not might be influenced to play if they know they will be getting more out of it.

I do like the D3 5 man idea though and would definately be supportive of it if xball ends up falling through. Sorry if any of this was already said I didn't read all of the other posts.
I also didnt like the idea of only 2 prelim matches.
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Old 05-10-2011, 05:16 PM #17
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^^good point
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Old 05-10-2011, 09:41 PM #18
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You Guys Got More Excusess Than A Mutha ****er Going To Jail!

So now your saying that if we made an adjustment in how many prelim games you would play, that's it? That will get you guys signed up? Wait, **** SIGNING UP!... that's all you guys do! Are you saying this would get teams signed up an PAID? This is the deal breaker? GTFO!!!!

I'm going to run this up the flag pole but, I'm sure you guys will find some other reason not to nut up and play ball!
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Old 05-11-2011, 01:05 AM #19
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just my thoughts !
D-3
#1 issue - a series is hard to commit to when you are playing for a series prize that even if won would not do any good since world cup is out ! no incentive now to play !
#2 issue - playing an event that you are sure to lose money is out (D-3) !

solution - just say screw the series prize and just run every event with a decent payout for the D-3 div. and nice prizes or lower cash back for the D-4 !
you have 5 events on the schedule and after the 3rd you will see who is in the hunt and who is out and that's when the D-4 teams may start to drop also since there incentive is also gone !
maybe try something like this ! based off the 1st event 20 teams + 3 would haves in d-3 !
D-4 entry = $300 byop
1st - $1000
2nd - $600
3rd - $300
4th - $100

D-3 $500 entry also byop (3 teams that would have played)
1st - $2000
2nd - $1000
3rd - $500

teams will start to step up if they want to try for the bigger payout or just stay in d-4 because they can compete there better or just can't field 8-10 guys to compete plus you will get other teams that may of had to miss the 1st event and don't bother to play because the series is out of reach since they missed the first event.
also this would still have left $2000 unaccounted for !
hosting field gets $500
refs get $300 per field with 6 refs min. (2 fields max)
balance ($900) would go into a pool to be split at the end of the 5th event between the 4 fields !
this is only an example and would change based on the amount of teams entering but that would be very simple to figure out so every team would know what they are playing for as the teams sign up ! plus it would be a great incentive for the fields to really push the series and not just there event they host as there would be more money in the pool with more teams !
now this wouldn't be able to be done till 2012 but just a thought !
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Old 05-11-2011, 06:25 AM #20
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World Cup is out? Unless you're saying that the prize won't be offered I'm not following your meaning of that statement. PSP World Cup is still on the event schedule for the season.
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Old 05-11-2011, 08:06 AM #21
randy woodland
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
some teams/players can't make world cup so the series prize isn't any good to them is what i was getting at and i was using my own reference as an example !
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