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View Poll Results: Should Coaches Be Allowed On The Field?
Yeah, player need someone out there. 73 54.07%
No, it should be their responsibility to know their surroundings. 58 42.96%
Other (Explain in your post) 4 2.96%
Voters: 135. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-18-2011, 02:32 PM #1
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Question Coaches or No Coaches

Having watched the entire event I was very pleased with the format, the webcast, and the entire thing was awesome. The format ran smoothly and at time caused great games of high tension. The only thing I didn't so much liek were the on field-coaches. I understand their place, but I feel when the players get on the field it's their own responsibility to figure out what's going on. There was one particular instance In which (Penn State I think) one player ran the highway and would have bunkered 2 snake players making his risky move a huge payout, but the coach told the front snake player who put up a lane right into where he was running, which I didn't think was fair. I wanted to know what the Nation thought about their presence whether it was a good or bad thing.

So, what do you think?
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Old 04-18-2011, 02:38 PM #2
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The format is a more traditional X-ball with full halves and on field coaching. I think that it should stay the way it is. As any coach can attest too, I can't make my team win/lose, they still need to play the game. I also feel that it allows you to develop inexperienced players and give them confidence. Of course, you could just joystick the players, but then they never learn and get any better. That's just bad coaching.
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Old 04-18-2011, 02:41 PM #3
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There are leagues with coaches, and leagues without coaches. If don't like coaching, go play the leagues without it. There are other options.

I for one have no problem with coaches, hence why I play in leagues that allow coaching.
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Old 04-18-2011, 02:57 PM #4
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I absolutely understand the place of coaches and how the do help the game. Personally however, i prefer to play without coaches, not so much that i would change leagues over it or anything but i think it is more fun without coaching. It allows for players to do some really sneaky things that would get them killed with coaching.
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Old 04-18-2011, 02:59 PM #5
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I just felt like it took away from the player will to make the big move or something that is one of the better points in the game. I can't find the game film but the front snake player reactively jerked up and laned across where he was about to run by because of his coach, not because of anything the bunkering player did wrong.
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Old 04-18-2011, 03:13 PM #6
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I just don't like the way you worded the answers. Yes, xball should have coaches but thats because it's the format. It's always the players' responsibility to know their surroundings. Coaches are only supposed to feed the player information, it's up to the player too do something with that information.
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Old 04-18-2011, 03:41 PM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiTownBaller716 View Post
I just don't like the way you worded the answers. Yes, xball should have coaches but thats because it's the format. It's always the players' responsibility to know their surroundings. Coaches are only supposed to feed the player information, it's up to the player too do something with that information.
Its more than feeding a player information and letting them respond to it how they wish...

Coaches should stay.
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Old 04-18-2011, 05:59 PM #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoktFonix View Post
Its more than feeding a player information and letting them respond to it how they wish...

Coaches should stay.
but the player shouldn't rely on just a good coach, he should know how to respond and when.

but i agree. coaches stay. i <3 my snake coach
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Old 04-19-2011, 02:59 PM #9
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As a coach, I am biased. I feel like the sixth member of the team. I think the game would slow down a bit without the coaching and games would have much lower scores. I know I have warned my snake players in the past someone was coming, but they still missed the dude. In the end it is up to the player to do the deed.
Additional question: If the coaching went away, would all sideline participation be removed as well?
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Old 04-19-2011, 03:01 PM #10
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Eliminating sideline participation (you mean audience/bleacher goers, right?) seems like it would be ite difficult, especially when it comes down to semis and finals
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Old 04-19-2011, 08:25 PM #11
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i think counter-coaching is the only real issue. it's cheap and unnecessary imo. make spectators keep their mouth's closed and allow coaches/players to do their jobs... other than that coaching is great
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Old 04-19-2011, 08:27 PM #12
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Yeah. Football games, soccer games, basketball games, hockey games, etc are more fun if you're quiet.
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Old 04-19-2011, 08:56 PM #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P E R P View Post
i think counter-coaching is the only real issue. it's cheap and unnecessary imo. make spectators keep their mouth's closed and allow coaches/players to do their jobs... other than that coaching is great
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Old 04-19-2011, 09:58 PM #14
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just something to think about
even though it seems like it, it is impossible for a coach to perfectly "joystick" a player. At some point, the person playing will have to make his own decisions. The better player still wins nearly all of the time.
A coach is just another member of the team, just helping in a different way.
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Old 04-19-2011, 10:48 PM #15
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Quote:
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Yeah. Football games, soccer games, basketball games, hockey games, etc are more fun if you're quiet.
i guess i should be less vague... they shouldn't be allowed to interfere with coaches and players on the field. be as loud as you want, just don't **** with players/coaches.

someone on one of these threads who was coaching in this tournament said people starting jocking him physically. if someone hopped down the stands and started pushing bill bellicheck they would be tazed and sent to jail and you'd see it on the top 10. i've seen jack nicholas kicked out of lakers games for being too much of a distraction as a spectator.

be as vocal as you want as a spectator just don't (vocally or physically) interfere with the game being played by counter-coaching.

but nonetheless coaching is a flawed system that has pros and cons just like any other topic of discussion. i think it belongs in paintball, but if it becomes enough of a problem i would imagine ncpa/psp/etc. would consider changing the rules of sideline coaching, if they haven't already. but we'll see...

but than again, it makes for interesting paintball.
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Old 04-20-2011, 01:35 AM #16
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Coaches is why players like ollie aren't as great players in this format of the game. Look at ollie's moves in the nppl back in the day. thats not possible in the coaching format.

Maybe coaching up till sunday then no coaches. that would be interesting to see. And maybe a certain division and up.

I love the race to format with the halves and the ramping. Would like to see the mix of nppl rules and psp!!
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Old 04-20-2011, 12:15 PM #17
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One thing that I didn't like was in AA there was no pit side coaching but there was spectator coaching. Ok, fine already knew that rule and we were playing that all season. Too bad they had the field backwards and we could only coach d-side and it had to be a non-rostered player.
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Old 04-21-2011, 07:47 AM #18
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I have put a lot of thought into the coaching question actually and here is what I have found.

Coaches in Xball (Class A to keep the NCPA's legal staff happy), are a very useful, powerful and needed tool.

Coaches as how most teams use them though, are a waste.

What do I mean by that? At the moment most teams just use their coach as a body that is closer to them on the field and calling out the locations of the opponents. Effectively they are just doing the same screaming and yelling that the audience does and they tend to get either drowned out or just ignored if the player already knows what is going on.

The real power of the coach is supposed to be, well coaching. The ability for him to see the overall picture, change something, and solve the issue.

Let me give an example. Alex Elliot is not well known as a Class A coach but I got a chance to watch his coaching style during the Rutgers/PSU game. PSU got up 5-1 in the first half, Alex was able to notice a critical flaw in PSU's breakout and rearranged his players, on the fly, to fix this issue. Now swing points not withstanding Rutgers still was able to earn back 4 points because of this and stopped PSU's advance and Rutgers took the win.

Another example, when I played with PSU we had Dan "Snack" from All Americans coaching us. This was where I learned the true power of a good coach. I remember sliding into the snake and Dan crouching down beside me.

Dan: "Rob, can you hear me?"
I shake my head
Dan: "Rob, We are Fox 3 (Meaning two PSU players left). When I tell you to I want you to jump the snake and run cross to the X"
Me: "What?!?!"
Dan: "When you get there look inside and stay posted"
Pause
Dan: "Go"

Now from a snake players point of view this was suicide, jumping the snake (still allowed then), crossing the largest lane, and going to a bunker I did not see as useful was a good way to get lit up. But I listened, and to my shock not a single shot was fired toward me till I was already in the X.

Now what had Dan seen that I had not? Well for one that I was not going to move from that snake, at least not in a short time frame due to a corner that was posted inside on me. Dan also knew that my dorritto player was battling on his tape line with the other corner. So he was not going to be much help. But if I ran on the inside of the field, both corners were looking down their tape, they would miss me. Yet from the X I could see both of them.

Now could I have solved this on my own? Probably, but not likely. Dan had the advantage of not just hearing my dorrito player communicate, but seeing that they were battling tape side. He was able to see the big picture at that minute and make a change that won us he game. Had I stayed in the snake, battling a snakeside corner I likely would have been shot.

So the point to this long post is that, I would like to see more proper Class A coaching, and when you do you will see the value of the position. For now though, many teams just use them as a spotter.
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Old 04-22-2011, 10:07 AM #19
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Coaches inside a field act as extra eyes making them a 6th player. A good sideline coach can impact the game if he knows what he is doing. That can take away from the hard work and preparation from a snake player that has trained to play the game in a competitive setting. The reality is that the element of surprise in the game has been minimized over the years as the game transitioned from the woods to inflatables to adding crowd participation and sideline coaches.

I myself am a former pro-player and I took an active roll in coaching 3 different teams in the 2008 PSP Season. All 3 teams won a PSP event including winning World Cup with a put together. I did it from the pits by running plays. I hardly never bothered with the sideline coaching and always left it to the players on the team to loose their voice, however, on critical matches I did step to the plate to ensure that I provided the extra eyes for my snake player. I can tell you that I impacted the game as well when I played that role.

Listen, Snake players need to learn how to play the game. To rely in a sideline coach is ridiculous and unnecessary if you know what you are doing. I close by saying, get rid of the coaching in the sidelines. Players need to learn how to play on their own rather than depending on someone telling them where and when to shoot. Fundamentals my friend, that's what the game needs to be. Win it in your own merits.
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Old 04-22-2011, 11:45 AM #20
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First of all, I think we should split coaching out into:

1. Snake coaching on the field
2. Coaching the game.

It's worth pointing out that REALLY good snake coaching involves having a dedicated snake coach who practices coaching snake players at practice. You can always tell when a player in the snake doesn't trust his snake coach and/or they haven't practiced together.

When it works, snake coaching is making one player as effective as two or even three players. Personally, as a coach myself, I happen to think that's awesome in the same way that people who have practice laning think that's awesome. In other words, it's a skill that reams need to practice in order do it effectively.

Now, that being said, snake players still need to know how to:
-get to the snake
-dodge lanes
-put people in and go
-shoot at people in the doritos while getting shot at from back center etc

The best way to say it is that while, yes, snake coaching takes away some skill, it requires a lot more skill and practice to make snake coaching effective.

As for #2, I would compare it to other college sports e.g. football or basketball. The general idea of these sports is that you take college aged athletes that already have a high level of athletic talent and experience. You then couple that with 25 - 85 year old coaching staffs that use their years of game experience to add a whole other dimension to the game. Again, to me having that coaching experience applied to games (like with myself and Ryan Haggerty vs PSU in the game Rob mentioned) make for much more interesting games.

I think that #2 is also kind of lacking because real college Class A coaching is still pretty new/ I've only been coaching Class A since 2003 and I still learn new things all the time e.g. new drills, how to manage people in games, train assistant coaches etc etc

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Old 04-22-2011, 07:58 PM #21
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Alex. I disagree with your post although I appreciate your participation as an acting coach. Listen, one day, you may want to fly me up there and I will give you 20 years of playing and teaching this game in one day. When I am all done with you and your guys, you will see paintball in a different way. I guarantee that.
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