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Old 04-15-2011, 02:14 PM #1
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Thread of the Week: What should today's pros pay for?

I'm super busy, so this'll have to be fast.

Given all that's given in today's paintball world, what should a pro team be expected to cover for its players?

The Russians get paid. Probably a few other teams, too (i know of 2 myself).
Impact flies people in.
Should a pro team pay for airfare to events or in today's world should the pro player expect to pay for that? I know a few pro teams that make the players pay.
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Old 04-15-2011, 02:27 PM #2
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depends. the real question is, can the owner make money of the pro team to afford to pay for all costs, plane tickets, and players?
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Old 04-15-2011, 02:38 PM #3
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owners do not make money off of pro teams.
they do it for the love of the game or the love of competition at its highest level.
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Old 04-15-2011, 03:15 PM #4
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If someone's funding a team for love of the game then it's really up to them and their philosophy of ownership. Do they want to buy the best players and pay for everything to ensure that the players are focused solely on doing what they're paid to do, or do they want to make the players pay for at least some of the costs themselves in order to instill a sense of personal responsibility (and perhaps avoid creating prima donnas)?
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Old 04-15-2011, 05:04 PM #5
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When looking at the big picture of mainstreaming it more, yes. The Pro teams should pay their players and pay all their expenses. Every other sports Pro leagues do, except may be golf, but thats not so much a team sport. Plus the whole funding behind these other pro teams is ticket sales. People, even players at the same tournament, should have to pay to watch the pro teams play, such as paying $5 or something to watch the live telecast of it.
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Old 04-18-2011, 08:14 AM #6
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When looking at the big picture of mainstreaming it more, yes. The Pro teams should pay their players and pay all their expenses. Every other sports Pro leagues do, except may be golf, but thats not so much a team sport. Plus the whole funding behind these other pro teams is ticket sales. People, even players at the same tournament, should have to pay to watch the pro teams play, such as paying $5 or something to watch the live telecast of it.
yea but then psp would take the money, it have to be a circle the psp would have to give out certain % to the owners of the pro teams to put that into the players.. which will never happen in paintball.
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Old 04-18-2011, 08:42 AM #7
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When looking at the big picture of mainstreaming it more, yes. The Pro teams should pay their players and pay all their expenses. Every other sports Pro leagues do....
They pay Pros because Pros make them money. Off tickets to see them play and off Shirts, Jerseys, Bobble Heads and anything else with their face on it that the team sells. Paintball really doesnt do any of that....maybe a some jerseys or tshirts and some team guns. Not nearly enough to be profitable just sustainable.

Edit:
Yea like Dan is pointing out our games are held at the League. Rather than other pro sports where games are held at the a teams home field so ticket sales aren't even going to the Pro teams they go the league to help offset the cost of the event.

Slightly off topic: Would a league where teams traveled to each other be cheaper overall than having the psp/nppl traveling circus? Then just leave Regional leagues to handle divisional paintball?
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Old 04-18-2011, 09:02 AM #8
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Paintball will never be a mainstream sport.
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Old 04-18-2011, 09:05 AM #9
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The short answer is “the basics”. The longer, more complex, answer involves some discussion around how other pro sports can afford to pay for their player’s services. Even in the beginning of “pro” football they had home and away games – sold tickets to events – sold refreshments – maybe even charged for parking. All those things brought in revenue and then that revenue was used to cover expenses – some of those expenses where the player salaries – others included things such as use of (rental) or ownership of a place to play, staff to run the parking and concession stands, staff to run the day to day operations such as marketing the organization, scheduling matches, arranging transportation, etc.. I’m confident I’m missing a whole ton of things that go on in a professional sports organization, but I think you get the idea.

The main point of all that: They have a revenue stream (ticket sales, food sales, parking and merchandise). In today’s world they also have a share of the league revenue generated from larger TV contracts, etc. They also have their own local TV contracts that generate revenue for the team too.

Without a steady and predictable source of revenue being generated from the actual games themselves, it’s hard to justify paying the players to pay. I think the best you should get in today’s environment as a player is the offset of expenses that might be covered by sponsorship from various companies within the industry. Things such as low cost or no cost equipment (markers, masks, tanks, pants, jerseys, etc) and paint could possibly be covered by sponsorships. Then comes the items that actually cost teams money – things such as entry fees, practice time, practice paint, travel expenses – whether thats for practice or events and all the little things from water to batteries to food at events. This is where I feel the team needs to “earn” their keep. As a player I believe you should not be expecting to get any of these items covered for you without having to work for the sponsor who’s paying those bills. This work can be in the form of reffing local events, helping out at the field you practice at, running clinics, etc..

In the early days of professional football most/all the players held “regular” jobs in order to make a living – football was not their main source of income. We should not expect to go from zero to 60 in 3.3 seconds – it takes time to build up to what people see as professional pay today. Starting with getting free stuff (gear, playing time, etc..) maybe in exchange for some work around the field to getting paid a small (and I mean small) salary for your services to one day being able to actually make a living off of it to the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow and making millions in only a few years if you’re the best of the best. I’m not confident we’ll ever make it past the 1st phase. If we can somehow drive revenue from spectators then we’ll stand a chance of growing into the 2nd phase (small salaries) and beyond.

The bottom line – without a steady source of revenue it is tough to justify paying players.
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Old 04-18-2011, 09:07 AM #10
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Gabe,

Why do you say that?

20 years ago I would have never thought Lacrosse would be "main stream", but there is now a "Professional" league for lacrosse.
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Old 04-18-2011, 09:19 AM #11
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heck - 20 years ago I would have never thought there would be quidditch teams at major universities around the country - but there are. The point being - anythng can happen - you just need to work at it.
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Old 04-18-2011, 03:41 PM #12
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heck - 20 years ago I would have never thought there would be quidditch teams at major universities around the country - but there are. The point being - anythng can happen - you just need to work at it.
please tell me that's a joke...
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Old 04-18-2011, 04:53 PM #13
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Gabe,

Why do you say that?

20 years ago I would have never thought Lacrosse would be "main stream", but there is now a "Professional" league for lacrosse.
Guns. Plain and simple. There is an acceptable level of violence in most mainstream sports these days (brute force athletics in football, fights breaking out in hockey, etc.). In paintball, we run around and shoot each other. That is far more violent than "regular" sports. Since there's a significant public backlash towards gun violence, I don't think paintball will ever be able to overcome that stigma and go mainstream.

There are other reasons as well. You can't just go to a sporting goods store, pick up some gear and then go play in your back yard or park. Well, you could, but it's entirely unsafe and playing in public would likely get you arrested.
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Old 04-18-2011, 06:33 PM #14
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Thats what I meant about owners of the teams paying the players, we need to make some sort of way to make revenue so that the owners can pay players, or give them a "free ride". It is some what sickening to see even the "pro" level players having to pay so much to play these tournaments, and even when they do take a 1st place they get chump change that has to be slip up between 10+ guys.

Has anyone tried to get Foxball, NEPL, or any other local leagues filmed and air on local television?
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Old 04-18-2011, 08:26 PM #15
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please tell me that's a joke...
Sorry - not a joke. Both URI and UMASS Amherst have Quidditch teams.

Google it.
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Old 04-18-2011, 08:27 PM #16
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Guns. Plain and simple. There is an acceptable level of violence in most mainstream sports these days (brute force athletics in football, fights breaking out in hockey, etc.). In paintball, we run around and shoot each other. That is far more violent than "regular" sports. Since there's a significant public backlash towards gun violence, I don't think paintball will ever be able to overcome that stigma and go mainstream.

There are other reasons as well. You can't just go to a sporting goods store, pick up some gear and then go play in your back yard or park. Well, you could, but it's entirely unsafe and playing in public would likely get you arrested.
Topshot? Teams with guns and other weapons...hum...ok - they're not shooting each other - hold on - they did get shot at by paintball guns one event....

Try again.
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Old 04-18-2011, 09:39 PM #17
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Gabe,

Why do you say that?

20 years ago I would have never thought Lacrosse would be "main stream", but there is now a "Professional" league for lacrosse.
pro lax players barely get paid anything. d1 is basically the top level.
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Has anyone tried to get Foxball, NEPL, or any other local leagues filmed and air on local television?
problem is paintball isnt good televised. you can't really tell what's going on.
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Sorry - not a joke. Both URI and UMASS Amherst have Quidditch teams.

Google it.
quidditch teams are just clubs i'm pretty sure. all the kids who i see play it are all really lame too lol


but back on topic, i think pro players deserve to have entry/paint/equipment given to them but airfare and lodging needs to come out of their pockets. there just isnt any revenue for the pros so they can't expect to have everything paid for them.
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Old 04-19-2011, 06:53 AM #18
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Well NPPL did a great job of telecasting on the web. They had instant replay and everything. Even my fiancée could keep up with it, she was wondering why it wasn't on normal television.
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Old 04-19-2011, 07:40 AM #19
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Same with the NCPA National Championships last week.
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Old 04-19-2011, 07:57 AM #20
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[quote=p8ntballoc11;71162214]pro lax players barely get paid anything. d1 is basically the top level.

quidditch teams are just clubs i'm pretty sure. all the kids who i see play it are all really lame too lol

[quote]


We can't expect to go from zero to 60 in 3.3 seconds - Professional LAX is our next logical step..

Pro Lax league had 6 pro teams last season - the avg attendance for the Boston Cannons was 8000+ per home game - they had 6 home games. They have a roster of 40+ players and who knows how many coaches and support staff. They traveled to 6 away matches - and I'm guessing the players didn't pay for anything.

Pro Lax is the next step in the evolution - meaning we (paintball) are at the stage were our "pro" players pay for some stuff - there are only a few "group" matches each year - there really isn't a season - it's a year. I would think a logical next step for paintball is where LAX is today. And I'm sure LAX is looking at moving up the ladder and becoming bigger - getting more teams in the league - breaking it up into divisions - earning more revenue - maybe MLS is their next target model - then the NBA/NFL/MLB.

As for the Quidditch comments - my point was not that I thought they were division 1 teams, but more that anything can happen if you work at it. I do believe that some of the Quidditch teams travel to other universities to play.
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Old 04-19-2011, 08:22 AM #21
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paintball is a hobby not a sport, people do it for the love of the game and being with friends. other than that it is a money pit with no return.
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