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Old 04-12-2014, 07:56 AM #1
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why 12 bps?

coming back to the paintball scene after some years away, and was wondering why it seems like just about everything is 12 bps ramping. Why the change from semi and 15 bps ramping?
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Old 04-12-2014, 09:12 AM #2
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It's the evolution of a constantly changing sport. They had to change from semi, because of predator and speedy boards. Then xball happened, and then formats changed again.

It's a system of trying to put more focus on player skill over paint consumption. Ramping was good because it put more focus on player skill over leaning. That failed and people were getting annihilated, so they changed it.

The argument will always be put more emphasis on the player and less on the gear. Experimenting is happening and they are trying to figure out what is a good balance of player skill and equipment.
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Old 04-12-2014, 10:02 AM #3
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12 BPS limit semi
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Old 04-12-2014, 10:49 AM #4
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the pros are now limited to 10.2 or .4 for psp
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Old 04-12-2014, 06:19 PM #5
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do you really need more bps? anything above 12 bps is just going to lead to excessive bonus balling imo.
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Old 04-12-2014, 06:57 PM #6
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Your average machine gun (uzi) shoots 10 per sec

Still a lot of balls in the air.
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Old 04-12-2014, 11:27 PM #7
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I was cool with 15 lol, but hey times change I guess
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Old 04-14-2014, 07:07 AM #8
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less bps= more movement= more interesting and more fun games
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Old 04-14-2014, 05:28 PM #9
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10.2 BPS allows for a little more gambling to take aggression on the field. It is harder to lane or shoot a moving target at 10.2, but no where near impossible. The field layouts this year are rewarding players to take realistate off the break, with wide open lanes to give a chance to teams to counter it.

Overall, the BPS changes is not a huge factor but has increased the speed a tad.
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Old 04-14-2014, 09:53 PM #10
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10.2 BPS allows for a little more gambling to take aggression on the field. It is harder to lane or shoot a moving target at 10.2, but no where near impossible. The field layouts this year are rewarding players to take realistate off the break, with wide open lanes to give a chance to teams to counter it.

Overall, the BPS changes is not a huge factor but has increased the speed a tad.
ok, now thats a reason that makes sense to me, now i don't hate the new rule, but it still won't be the same.
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Old 04-15-2014, 08:31 AM #11
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10.2 BPS allows for a little more gambling to take aggression on the field. It is harder to lane or shoot a moving target at 10.2, but no where near impossible. The field layouts this year are rewarding players to take realistate off the break, with wide open lanes to give a chance to teams to counter it.

Overall, the BPS changes is not a huge factor but has increased the speed a tad.
But would it increase speed though? Most games are extremely conservative, teams try to make their spots and maybe advance, taking advantage of the holes left by people getting shot off the break. All a slower rate of fire does is initially insure more people make it off the break, meaning even more conservative play because if everyone makes it to their spot, guys are going to be more reluctant to advance because chances are someone is covering you directly. But games will take longer insuring that at the lower levels people use more paint, so I suppose somebody profits.
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Old 04-15-2014, 03:06 PM #12
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But would it increase speed though? Most games are extremely conservative, teams try to make their spots and maybe advance, taking advantage of the holes left by people getting shot off the break. All a slower rate of fire does is initially insure more people make it off the break, meaning even more conservative play because if everyone makes it to their spot, guys are going to be more reluctant to advance because chances are someone is covering you directly. But games will take longer insuring that at the lower levels people use more paint, so I suppose somebody profits.
Dallas layout played extremely fast. I don't have the stats on the event but I don't believe any match went to time. MAO will play fast as well, even playing 5v5 if you take realistate off the break you can get some quick kills.

But in reality it is up to each team to come up with their own gameplan to the layout. Some will of course play conservative and make the points drag out longer, while others will try and set the tempo high and push the envelope.
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Old 04-15-2014, 03:08 PM #13
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But would it increase speed though? Most games are extremely conservative, teams try to make their spots and maybe advance, taking advantage of the holes left by people getting shot off the break. All a slower rate of fire does is initially insure more people make it off the break, meaning even more conservative play because if everyone makes it to their spot, guys are going to be more reluctant to advance because chances are someone is covering you directly. But games will take longer insuring that at the lower levels people use more paint, so I suppose somebody profits.
But at 10.2 I'd take the risk 8/10 to make a spot compared to 6/10 on 12.5.
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Old 04-15-2014, 07:07 PM #14
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Quote:
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Dallas layout played extremely fast. I don't have the stats on the event but I don't believe any match went to time. MAO will play fast as well, even playing 5v5 if you take realistate off the break you can get some quick kills.

But in reality it is up to each team to come up with their own gameplan to the layout. Some will of course play conservative and make the points drag out longer, while others will try and set the tempo high and push the envelope.
Keyword: Dallas layout played extremely fast. There were just as many 45 second games in divisional (12.5) games as there were in pro. The rate of fire was negligible.

If you want to speed up the game, you manipulate the pace through your layouts. Adjusting the rate of fire is more relevant to paint consumption than anything else. I've played tournament paintball through the various incarnations of PSP limits (15.4, 13.3, 10.5, 12.5) and the only one that truly sucked was 10.5. At that rate of fire, the paint comes out so slow that better players can snapshoot while another guy is shooting at them in full ramp. I can only hope that the PSP will make the right decision in leaving the ROF at 12.5 across the board in future seasons.
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Old 04-15-2014, 08:50 PM #15
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^^^ Totally agree with this man right here
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Old 04-15-2014, 10:28 PM #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyskidmore3 View Post
10.2 BPS allows for a little more gambling to take aggression on the field. It is harder to lane or shoot a moving target at 10.2, but no where near impossible. The field layouts this year are rewarding players to take realistate off the break, with wide open lanes to give a chance to teams to counter it.

Overall, the BPS changes is not a huge factor but has increased the speed a tad.
I also disagree on BPS changes increasing speed. The layouts for Dallas where the real factor for the speed increase. Also, if we want players to make big moves, we should point the finger at the thing that makes those big moves really hard now, sideline coaching. Making the big move doesn't mean squat when their coach yells it out and you trade instead of taking out a few guys.
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Old 04-15-2014, 11:35 PM #17
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If you want games to go faster and force people to play aggressively then encourage people to play faster and more aggressively. Incentivize it. Especially if they want to grow the sport and make it more interesting for casual viewers and get some tv revenue. The NFL learned that, teams would run the ball 90% of the time back in the day! but fans wanted excitement, big plays, big hits. So they changed the rules to encourage passing the ball downfield, made it easier for receivers, started protecting precious quarterbacks, reducing the risk in relation to the reward. The UFC pays huge bonuses to guys for submission of the night, knockout of the night, fight of the night. More interesting fighters get more fights and get more money.
Paintball teams have none of that incentive, it's a game of attrition, wait for the other guy to make a mistake. Make conservative moves, rely on coaching ( when they could). What are ways paintball could incentivize aggression?
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Old 04-18-2014, 11:10 PM #18
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Keyword: Dallas layout played extremely fast. There were just as many 45 second games in divisional (12.5) games as there were in pro. The rate of fire was negligible.

If you want to speed up the game, you manipulate the pace through your layouts. Adjusting the rate of fire is more relevant to paint consumption than anything else. I've played tournament paintball through the various incarnations of PSP limits (15.4, 13.3, 10.5, 12.5) and the only one that truly sucked was 10.5. At that rate of fire, the paint comes out so slow that better players can snapshoot while another guy is shooting at them in full ramp. I can only hope that the PSP will make the right decision in leaving the ROF at 12.5 across the board in future seasons.
But isn't this why they dropped the BPS? To encourage the snap shooters to snap shoot and make it more interesting from a viewer standpoint?10.2 balls a second is still faster than a player snap shooting maybe three balls per second per snap. Also, it can get really boring to watch a player just hug his bunker because he is being laned at 12.5 BPS. The only way paintball will become a large sport is if we push to make it more enjoyable for spectators, and slowing down the BPS will allow for more courageous moves and a lot of good snap shooting. Yes, I am aware that the courageous moves are still based on the willingness of each player to attempt them, but at least this increases their odds, and helps push them to make moves that we see less often in a 12.5 BPS setting.
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Old 04-21-2014, 11:23 AM #19
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There are a few things at play with the speed changes.

1) Emphasis on the player rather than the marker.
The role the marker plays in the sport should be minimal. The focus should not be that the marker is shooting x balls per second and creating a 3 inch gap for a player to try and make a move through but rather the player is shooting a good lane of paint but the other player managed to move past his shot anyways. More paint makes player skill matter less. Don't get me wrong, it still matters, however the effect on the game a good player has is minimal at 15 bps.

2) Create a product suitable for mass media.
With paintball growing and the improved quality of the webcast, PSP and SMP wish to turn that into a unit of growth for the PSP. It has begun already with NCPA's continual efforts to televise the Class A finals game. CBS Sports is broadcasting the game after the fact and getting it into millions(or at least hundreds of thousands) of homes. By creating a format which is conducive to player movement and exciting/aggressive play, a format for TV evolves and hopefully in the future, will allow paintball to continually move into the public spotlight and become a "mainstream" sport.

There are certainly others, however that is my best guess for now and my top 2 reasons.

Also, Pro is now limited to 10.2 bps. Divisional remains 12.5 though I suspect that will not remain the same in the future.
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Old 05-01-2014, 09:51 AM #20
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IMO It creates an atmosphere where movement is rewarded and creates, along with the layout, an incentive to make more aggressive runs, mainly off the break. Like many other people have already stated this, I think that it has been the implementation of both the layout and the lower ROF that has created an atmosphere where the focus is put on gun skills, more aggressive movements, and more risk taking in sense of longer runs. I personally think creates a more spectator friendly sport as a whole because when more people make it off the break, spectators have more of an opportunity to watch the full game unfold. Now the opposite rational for this is that if everyone makes in off the break than the game might not be opened up as quickly, possibly slowing the pace of the game down a bit. Most people want to see two guys battle it out in the snake rather than someone sitting shooting lanes the whole game holding someone in an insert. It also creates a more exciting atmosphere as a whole, which I think is the point. I feel that PSP have been making these changes over the past few years with the thought of an intention to make xball more viewer friendly in an attempt to further publicize the sport in the future.

I have also played since semi (NPPL/7 man), 15 bps with the advent of xball, than lowered all the way too 12.5 bps (10.2 for the pros), which I personally feel (12.5) is a perfect ROF since it bridges the gap pretty nicely. It's not at a snails pace (10.2) but it keeps the game interesting by limiting the sitting at home, which I'm glad they haven't implemented a home the past few events, and dumping 10 pods on a single lane. It allows for more aggressive runs but also doesn't make it impossible to lane someone making a run to the snake or D1/2.

Capped ramping was implemented in order to keep the playing field even and level as far as equipment goes. Like many have already said, it emphasizes player skill rather than one person having a bouncy trigger shooting 20 bps while an opposing player has no bounce and is shooting at most between 12-15 bps. There was also an influx of cheater boards that had breakout modes (first trigger pull is full auto, than switches the ramp after the trigger is let go). I guess this just keeps everyone honest and sets a standard that everyone needs to abide by, instead of leaving anything up in the air for someone to take advantage of. This is all just my opinion of course
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Old 05-03-2014, 12:18 PM #21
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But isn't this why they dropped the BPS? To encourage the snap shooters to snap shoot and make it more interesting from a viewer standpoint?10.2 balls a second is still faster than a player snap shooting maybe three balls per second per snap. Also, it can get really boring to watch a player just hug his bunker because he is being laned at 12.5 BPS. The only way paintball will become a large sport is if we push to make it more enjoyable for spectators, and slowing down the BPS will allow for more courageous moves and a lot of good snap shooting. Yes, I am aware that the courageous moves are still based on the willingness of each player to attempt them, but at least this increases their odds, and helps push them to make moves that we see less often in a 12.5 BPS setting.
I don't know if you've watched the MAO webcast, although I can tell you it's anything but exciting. The rate of fire has no bearing on speed of play. It's all about the layout. Dallas was blazing fast and MAO is a borderline stalemate. Rate of fire hasn't changed.
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