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View Poll Results: Is Ramping a handicap??
yes i can one ball kids 18 72.00%
no some people need it 7 28.00%
Voters: 25. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-07-2011, 06:19 PM #64
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Seems to me that paintball is simply accuracy by volumn now. I can consistantly keep up in semi with my cap at 20.5. Aside from the "professionals", ramping is just somebodies way of thinking that the faster they shoot, the easier they can keep somebody from coming out of a bunker.


Whatever though, obviously the paint companies are loving it.
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Old 04-07-2011, 06:48 PM #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AoSpades View Post
Seems to me that paintball is simply accuracy by volumn now. I can consistantly keep up in semi with my cap at 20.5. Aside from the "professionals", ramping is just somebodies way of thinking that the faster they shoot, the easier they can keep somebody from coming out of a bunker.


Whatever though, obviously the paint companies are loving it.
Well technically that's true. If someone only shot at you with 8bps , you'd snap out a hell of alot more often that you would with someone shooting 20.
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Old 04-07-2011, 07:14 PM #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o5pr3y View Post
Well technically that's true. If someone only shot at you with 8bps , you'd snap out a hell of alot more often that you would with someone shooting 20.
Rarely do you see someone shoot at every side of a bunker. typically they shoot at the last place you popped out, leaving the opposite and upper part of the bunker playable.
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Old 04-07-2011, 08:29 PM #67
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ramping is important in tournament play but not in rec play

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Old 04-08-2011, 07:12 AM #68
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Originally Posted by AoSpades View Post
Rarely do you see someone shoot at every side of a bunker. typically they shoot at the last place you popped out, leaving the opposite and upper part of the bunker playable.

Truth. And in such cases, I'd actually prefer that they shoot a lot down one side of my bunker. That way, I can tell by hearing it/seeing it out of my peripheral vision that I am free to calmly pop up over the top of my bunker or the other side and blast them. The look on someone's face who has just been one-balled whilst laning one side of your bunker is priceless...

Which brings me back to a point I made in my last post - shooting less can be an effective strategy. When I gun-battle, I make it as unpredictable as possible. I mean, if they keep coming out the same side of their bunker, I'll continue to sweetspot that location. But I won't just keep shooting. I'll take pauses for a few seconds - maybe put a few over the top of their bunker, a few around the other side, then back to the same side, etc. You can catch even the more talented players off guard this way.
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Old 04-08-2011, 08:50 AM #69
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I think the original question was "Is ramping a handicap" which is a rather ambiguously worded question, which is why we are getting all the responses about "is it fair in rec". It could also mean "is it a "crutch" for those who can't walk the trigger", or "Does is handicap the player by not developing a skill". I am interpreting it to mean "Is it a handicap to developing the individual player".

For the personal development of the player, I think it can be if it is used all the time. I play on semi when I use an electro, and while my fingers have never been blazing fast, I got the job done. About two years ago I sold my electro and have played pump almost exclusively. On rare occasions, I use an electro, and I have noticed that since I don't work on walking the trigger in my normal, day to day play anymore, my fingers have gotten slower.

So I would say that using ramping exclusively is a handicap to the development of a player as a whole, well-rounded paintball player. I would use ramping in tourney practice and semi in rec JUST to keep developing myself. But thats me.
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Old 04-08-2011, 10:04 AM #70
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i like the intelligent responses i've seen in here

my thoughts:

ramping IS NOT A HANDICAP. it is not a crutch, or any other negative thing except a potentially greater waste of paint

it is the individual player that makes it a crutch, and loses touch with their real ability to play, not the the firing mode itself. the gun w/o the player is a paperweight- the player is the one selecting the mode and pulling the trigger..... hopefully while pointing it at the other team.
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Old 04-08-2011, 01:26 PM #71
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As I previously stated, some people make shots count, and others prefer accuracy by volume.
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Old 04-08-2011, 03:43 PM #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AoSpades View Post
As I previously stated, some people make shots count, and others prefer accuracy by volume.
Tournament players don't shoot that much paint so that they can hit people. Most of us are just as accurate as anyone else, when we need to make a shot count, we can hit it in 1 or 2 shots. Its not accuracy by volume, the military term is called suppressing fire. You are very rarely shoot AT someone, but rather you are shooting around them to make them act in the way that you want so that you can move for a better position. And we also do laning, which is shooting where someone is going to go to either kill them or just scare them from moving.

Our armed forces in the middle east right now have been using about 250,000 shots for every insurgent killed. And yet they are some of the best marksmen in the world. Does that mean that they miss that many shots? No, they are supressing. The same thing applies in paintball. I am very accurate with my gun (in fact, I shot a flying bumble bee out of the air in one shot last practice) and yet i still shoot 3-4 pods a game (in a tournament setting). It isn't accuracy by volume.
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Old 04-08-2011, 04:41 PM #73
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Originally Posted by keeperdude View Post
Tournament players don't shoot that much paint so that they can hit people. Most of us are just as accurate as anyone else, when we need to make a shot count, we can hit it in 1 or 2 shots. Its not accuracy by volume, the military term is called suppressing fire. You are very rarely shoot AT someone, but rather you are shooting around them to make them act in the way that you want so that you can move for a better position. And we also do laning, which is shooting where someone is going to go to either kill them or just scare them from moving.

Our armed forces in the middle east right now have been using about 250,000 shots for every insurgent killed. And yet they are some of the best marksmen in the world. Does that mean that they miss that many shots? No, they are supressing. The same thing applies in paintball. I am very accurate with my gun (in fact, I shot a flying bumble bee out of the air in one shot last practice) and yet i still shoot 3-4 pods a game (in a tournament setting). It isn't accuracy by volume.
you are one of the only people who make sense in this thread.
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If I didn't have ramping Id only be able to shoot 2 balls a minute.. I have very retarded hands..

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Old 04-08-2011, 04:56 PM #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keeperdude View Post
Our armed forces in the middle east right now have been using about 250,000 shots for every insurgent killed.
And the rest of those bullets are used to do this:

Sorry. I had to do it.

I definitely agree with you... for tournament play. This forum is meant for discussion about recreational play, aka recball. I want to have fun when I go play recball. That means playing against people of varied skill levels and equipment. High rates of fire have no place in this style of play. If you are shooting a hopper+2 pods in a rec airball game, you are doing it wrong.
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Old 04-08-2011, 05:23 PM #75
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What Do You Think should it be in the sport at all??
To me it seems that you dont need as much fundementals when using ramping it makes games slower harder to bump up resticts big plays it makes the sport way to easy and not about TALENT.
agree..all these kids should have played paintball before ramping..theyd know the difference
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Old 04-08-2011, 05:25 PM #76
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none the less..this is a great conversation piece!!
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Old 04-09-2011, 04:45 AM #77
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Originally Posted by ooo itz nasty View Post
agree..all these kids should have played paintball before ramping..theyd know the difference
ramping doesnt make games slower. If capped properly it speeds games up.
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Posted by tHe tw3rkeR:
If I didn't have ramping Id only be able to shoot 2 balls a minute.. I have very retarded hands..

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Karma Police 12 - "OMG IT has the worlds first ever SLPR (super-low pressure lpr) cause its gonna run at negative psi. worlds first ever anti-matter marker."
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Old 04-11-2011, 07:53 AM #78
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Originally Posted by JohnSherman View Post

I definitely agree with you... for tournament play. This forum is meant for discussion about recreational play, aka recball. I want to have fun when I go play recball. That means playing against people of varied skill levels and equipment. High rates of fire have no place in this style of play. If you are shooting a hopper+2 pods in a rec airball game, you are doing it wrong.
That, I'll have to kindly disagree on, well, to a certain extent.

It depends on the situation and scenario you're playing. If you're playing 3-Man on an average-sized field, then yeah, a hopper+2 pods is a bit extreme.

However, when playing upwards of 5-man and 7-man, those games can take awhile and involve a lot of suppression and gun battling with opposing players to open up parts of the field to bump up. Even playing conservatively, it'd still take a decent amount of paint, again, depending on what position you're playing.

I normally play back or mid, and in 5 or 7-man formats during rec-play, even taking it easy with one-balling and the occasional suppressive burst, I use a hopper and 1-2 pods. I'm getting on average 2-4 eliminations a game, depending on if it's 5 or 7 man, but I spend most of my time calling out opposing bunkers and keeping them tucked in so my team can push up and get on them.

Still, back to the topic, I think I adequately covered it already, ramping is one of those things that until it is better regulated in rec-play, it's going to be there and has to be tolerated. I know in my experience, we usually ask all the other players before we start playing if they're alright with ramping and it's usually PSP 12.5 and sometimes 10. I have all semi-auto guns, but my teammates have ramp settings because they play more tournaments than I do.

If everyone's alright with it, then I don't see a problem, but if it's that jackass that's running around with uncapped ramp and using half a case a game, then yeah, that's a problem.
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Old 04-19-2011, 03:13 PM #79
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i have nothing against ramping. i shoot ~19 bps with my right had and ~8 bps with my left in semi. so ramping is good in my opinion
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Old 04-19-2011, 10:59 PM #80
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Ramping is all about keeping a steady stream of paint. In tournament, it balances everyone out and lets people focus more on snapping and speed.

In rec ball, it has absolutely no place. I see no point in having a 20bps lane off the break and dumping three hoppers off the break, when I can control my shots. Another problem in rec with ramping is overshooting in NXL/PSP3

If you only pull the trigger once in PSP3, you've shot someone 3 times. So 4 trigger pulls at them will take 12 shots. It really hurts to see those little kids with the GEO's and EGO's bonus balling me because they don't know how to take their gun out of ramp, or if they're just being mean.
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Old 04-20-2011, 08:40 AM #81
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Originally Posted by Alex4108 View Post

If you only pull the trigger once in PSP3, you've shot someone 3 times. So 4 trigger pulls at them will take 12 shots. It really hurts to see those little kids with the GEO's and EGO's bonus balling me because they don't know how to take their gun out of ramp, or if they're just being mean.
Which is again, why it has no place in RECREATIONAL play - unless everyone on the field has the ability to do so and agrees to use ramping.

But it's just like you said, in a typical rec setting, there are kids (and some adults) who use ramping or full auto and light people up all day long - whether they intend to be mean or not. It's just something that happens when people can't control their rof. And not knowing how to snap their way out of those situations, noobs with rental 98's are forced to just cower in their bunkers and wait for the paint stream to eventually come around to tag them out. If all players stuck with semi, there would not be this huge disparity on rec fields.

Another aspect of this that I don't think anyone has mentioned is that rec players who rely on ramp or full-auto never get any better. Their skillset remains limited to spraying paint downfield 100% of the time. Getting better field positioning and one-balling are almost unheard of.

There's a little bit of a disconnect between a lot of rec players and tourney players. The rec "wannabes" think that tourney guys use ramp just so they can spray paint all over the field, that being the primary plan for success. They don't realize that the tourney guys are using ramp just because it's allowed, and can still hit people in 1-2 shots if that player provides an exposed target. If you give an experienced tourney team 50 balls apiece and set them up against a bunch of noobs with unlimited paint and ramping guns, I guarantee the tourney guys will still win every game.
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Old 04-20-2011, 01:14 PM #82
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But it's just like you said, in a typical rec setting, there are kids (and some adults) who use ramping or full auto and light people up all day long - whether they intend to be mean or not. It's just something that happens when people can't control their rof. And not knowing how to snap their way out of those situations, noobs with rental 98's are forced to just cower in their bunkers and wait for the paint stream to eventually come around to tag them out. If all players stuck with semi, there would not be this huge disparity on rec fields.
There's still a fairly good disparity from my angle, as most of the guys I know and play with can roll their guns faster than PSP at 13 or even 15. Maybe not with their off hands, but certainly with their main hands.

I think PSP ramp just takes away the left/right problem. Keeps it even on a mirrored speedball field so that you can play both sides of your bunker on both sides of the field.
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Old 04-20-2011, 05:50 PM #83
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There's still a fairly good disparity from my angle, as most of the guys I know and play with can roll their guns faster than PSP at 13 or even 15. Maybe not with their off hands, but certainly with their main hands.

I think PSP ramp just takes away the left/right problem. Keeps it even on a mirrored speedball field so that you can play both sides of your bunker on both sides of the field.
Yes, definitely. But the fact is, the kind of people that are taking their full-autos and ramping guns onto rec fields against noobs are not the type that can typically outshoot ramp mode on semi. Certainly, I can outshoot PSP 12.5 without even thinking about it. I could outshoot (and still can) outshoot PSP 15 as well, with a legal gun setup for 1 pull, 1 shot.

The big difference is this: If I want to shoot a rope on semi, I have to MEAN to shoot a rope. If I don't walk the trigger, the most that's going to come out of my gun is 10-11 bps, and even then, I have to be twitching that one finger pretty fast intentionally. There are no real "accidents" when everyone is shooting semi like there can be with ramp or full-auto. And I believe that would save a lot of players....

That said, I regularly play rec with my electro. Though I can shoot damn fast if I want to, nobody gets unneccessarily lit-up by me. If they take more than 5 hits, it was probably from a huge distance (and I hardly ever bother taking long shots - I'd rather get close and one-ball people), so it doesn't hurt. Maybe that's too much to ask of other players...
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Old 04-21-2011, 08:51 AM #84
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Ramping definitely holds me back, I throw down far more paint when using semi.
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