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Old 03-31-2011, 06:45 PM #43
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Old 03-31-2011, 09:24 PM #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMcC13 View Post
Wait...so a cheater is starting the movement to prevent anti-cheating? How shocking!

Bobby, not all paintball players are scumbags. Just because your coach tells you to cheat, and you feel like you have to cheat, doesn't mean its okay. May I suggest improving your skills for the next tournament, instead of acting like a five your old and refusing to leave the game because you lost?

The only reason to cheat is to win. Why else would you do it? Don't try to justify your actions by saying that it's part of the sport, because its not. You're the cheater Bobby, the paintball community isn't. I know hundreds of people that would never dream of cheating in their life. I'd venture to say that you have no business being on a paintball field, and should probably pursue a non-competitive hobby where you're low capacity for sportsmanship can thrive.

The whole reason this chip needs to be installed is because of people like you. If cheating wasn't a big problem, this chip wouldn't have to exist. But since too many people are stupid enough to think that occasional cheating is okay, this thing needs to be stuck in guns.

With that being said, the players still shouldn't have to pay for this. At least, the innocent players shouldn't have to. Teams who have been caught cheating in the past should be forced to pay for these chips. A team such as yours Bobby. Teams that don't care about the integrity of the sport, and just want the undeserved limelight for being the best team.

It's plain and simple. If you don't want the chip forced upon you, stop cheating.
feel you man , but you miss understood me. i only consider myself a cheater because ive done it before. kinda the same mentality 'once a cheater , always a cheater. but i dont cheat 99 % of my playing time man. and never said coach says to cheat during game lol , just said i do what he tells me.and you are making it sound like wiping,playing on, overshooting, stepping outta bounds. the chip doesnt prevent that.coach cant tell me during a game to put my gun on cheat mode! chip prevents gun stuff. i dont cheat with board aspects especially.
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Old 03-31-2011, 09:34 PM #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOBBYTUCSON@DP View Post
feel you man , but you miss understood me. i only consider myself a cheater because ive done it before. kinda the same mentality 'once a cheater , always a cheater. but i dont cheat 99 % of my playing time man. and never said coach says to cheat during game lol , just said i do what he tells me.and you are making it sound like wiping,playing on, overshooting, stepping outta bounds. the chip doesnt prevent that.coach cant tell me during a game to put my gun on cheat mode! chip prevents gun stuff. i dont cheat with board aspects especially.
But it gets rid of 1 form of cheating. Which is where I stand and I believe BMcC stands as well. You get rid of cheating, even at a slow rate, and you will see this game getting bigger, better and a lot more popular. End of story.
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Old 03-31-2011, 09:49 PM #46
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My Concerns...

Here are the issues that concern me with the technology itself:

- Requires radical modification (soldering and dremmeling) near delicate parts of the gun such as the circuit board
- seems like it's crappy quality (range of 10 feet... how is this feasible on the paintball field that is 130x200?)
- How much is this going to cost? What benefits will it bring for said cost?

This whole operation seems really expensive. This technology ins't breakthrough NASA stuff, it's just soldering a new electrical part in, it might solve the problem for one event, but eventually people are going to learn how to modify them and make it just as bad as it is now (I honestly didn't know illegal markers were that big of a deal in the pro nppl division until I read this). Bottom line, the operation simply isn't worth the money. We just simply have to trust that our pro players will lead the way and set the example for the rest of us, which I think most of them do. I think the nppl should rethink which operations it wants to invest its money in order to expand.

just my 2 cents
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Old 03-31-2011, 09:50 PM #47
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Do you think the average electronically inept paint ball player is the one who invented and installed cheat codes? NOPE.

It was the board manufacturers and the programmers. Now they get to make more money by inventing gadgets designed and marketed to prevent what it is that THEY have created.

So let me guess. So and so firing board company gets NPPL to implement this so called "rule" across all divisions. At an extra cost to THE PLAYERS.

Then sometime in the future, all of a sudden at an NPPL tournament Mr. superstar pro and this elite team gets to rip faces off with their newest cheating guns designed to subvert the new device in question. Designed and programmed by who? YET ANOTHER BOARD MANUFACTURER!!!

This battle has been fought for the last decade and a half. If you think this latest HASSLE is the "end all, be all" of cheating, you need to pull your head out of your butthole.


And to the guys posted before me talking about how added power drain on the guns solenoid has zero ill effect on the guns operation is simply talking out his *** to try to make a point. Shame on you for spreading ignorance.
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Old 04-01-2011, 01:15 AM #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidwithagun View Post
Here are the issues that concern me with the technology itself:

- Requires radical modification (soldering and dremmeling) near delicate parts of the gun such as the circuit board
- seems like it's crappy quality (range of 10 feet... how is this feasible on the paintball field that is 130x200?)
- How much is this going to cost? What benefits will it bring for said cost?

This whole operation seems really expensive. This technology ins't breakthrough NASA stuff, it's just soldering a new electrical part in, it might solve the problem for one event, but eventually people are going to learn how to modify them and make it just as bad as it is now (I honestly didn't know illegal markers were that big of a deal in the pro nppl division until I read this). Bottom line, the operation simply isn't worth the money. We just simply have to trust that our pro players will lead the way and set the example for the rest of us, which I think most of them do. I think the nppl should rethink which operations it wants to invest its money in order to expand.

just my 2 cents
exactly. hence why i think its best to make a board in the whole sense of this all. it would be more practical to achieve this instead of the risk of soldering and another piont of failure.


Quote:
Originally Posted by =DaveP= View Post
Do you think the average electronically inept paint ball player is the one who invented and installed cheat codes? NOPE.

It was the board manufacturers and the programmers. Now they get to make more money by inventing gadgets designed and marketed to prevent what it is that THEY have created.

So let me guess. So and so firing board company gets NPPL to implement this so called "rule" across all divisions. At an extra cost to THE PLAYERS.

Then sometime in the future, all of a sudden at an NPPL tournament Mr. superstar pro and this elite team gets to rip faces off with their newest cheating guns designed to subvert the new device in question. Designed and programmed by who? YET ANOTHER BOARD MANUFACTURER!!!

This battle has been fought for the last decade and a half. If you think this latest HASSLE is the "end all, be all" of cheating, you need to pull your head out of your butthole.


And to the guys posted before me talking about how added power drain on the guns solenoid has zero ill effect on the guns operation is simply talking out his *** to try to make a point. Shame on you for spreading ignorance.
boom. its the board manufactures fault for makin cheat-wear all these years. and yah we the players have the choice to buy and utilize it , but the blame is still on the dealer for the kids overdose. then they wanna come up with a half *** way to fix the problem they created with a chip via soldering? lol come on. make a dam board so i can go home and see all my stats when i want at my convienience on my pc , not were i have to log into a player database like appa for example so manufacturers can see whats best for business. its only awesome to compare your stats with other teams and players at that point.
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Last edited by BOBBYTUCSON@DP : 04-01-2011 at 01:24 AM.
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Old 04-01-2011, 09:15 AM #49
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This thing is for TV, its a stat collector. And yes it will keep players honest in regards to the 15BPS cap.
The Edwards brothers had there NT's for sale , might still be there with the shot counter chips.


Check out this thread....

Damage shooting stats from 2 games in Chicago
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3416807
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Old 04-01-2011, 12:42 PM #50
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Ok, so the other purpose of the project is to keep stats. I honestly think that paintball is too complex and different of a sport to keep appropriate stats that will actually depict how good a player is. Things that determine good players are kills per game, amount of games alive, kills off the break, 2 on 1's, 3 on 1's, 3 on 2's... These are just some of the things that can measure player skill. Bottom line there are just too many ways to measure how good a player actually is. If you're trying to keep stats on these things then that would require 4 people per player keeping stats... dumb, I know.

I think keeping stats on players is a dumb idea specifically because paintball is just too different of a sport, and it's a very complex process to do so. By watching our players play and observing them from a players perspective, we know who is good and who isn't.

I really think the nppl is trying to move paintball towards the mainstream with stats and espn3 live casts. This is excellent!!!!! In order to take bigger steps towards the main stream, we need to focus on ways we can make our leagues cheaper so that more people can play. The more people that play, the larger your fan and player base. The larger your base gets, the more mainstream you become. Implementing useless technology is expensive and isn't utilizing the budget to its fullest.
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Old 04-01-2011, 02:49 PM #51
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thats stupid
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Old 04-01-2011, 11:35 PM #52
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Actually saw this demo'd at galveston at the virtue tent...I was kind of impressed with it, not because of the "anticheat" mentality, but really for the stat and training purposes.

For example let's say team A has these and they can see the uptime of the players shooting and see that their back line is only up and shooting 40% of the time where the front is up and goin 60% or more....

Plus also its goin to be plug and play from what I understand, just unplug ur noid plug in the transmitter and replug ur noid back in, plus the rf range is about 200-300 ft more than enough to cover a standard Pb field...

And that is JMHO
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Old 04-02-2011, 10:51 PM #53
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According to an NPPL official, who will later clear this up. Today I asked if lower divisions will require this chip in their markers.. the answer..

The chip is to enforce the rate of fire in PRO divisions only and is also to show how much a player is shooting in a match. The chip is television friendly and will soon be added to a site like ESPN3 so people outside of the sport can look in and see statistics of a certain player and allow players and spectators alike to enjoy the game more. In other words, this chip is kinda like a baseball card pic on front and stats on back.. So if you ARENT in the PRO level, there is no need to worry. It WONT affect you.
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Old 04-02-2011, 11:11 PM #54
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Stats should be about how many players you tagged per match, or about how many successful bunker runs you have made. Your kill/death ratio, 2 on 1 comebacks, How many penalties you've aquired, etc.

If its for TV. Then why does it provide the most boring (to your average non-pball TV watcher) information? like how long did you NOT shoot your gun, or how fast you come off the net and what have you. Who cares who comes off the net faster. We all know who they are I'll give you a hint without the pain in the butt chip. They are usually the ones shooting lanes at the beginning of the game DUH!

Haha. I dont really care. Just everytime I read what the reasoning is for this, it seems full of holes or shady. Please someone prove me wrong.
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Old 04-03-2011, 10:48 AM #55
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There is no way to see who shoots who unless there are tracers in the paint to see who actually hit who.

As for run thrus and bunkers, go ahead.. watch the games and tally em up and submit it to the nppl. No ones gonna pay to have someone do it. Unless paintball goes mainstream on ESPN.
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Old 04-03-2011, 11:37 AM #56
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Example 1). Theres almost already one ref per player on the field. Compare the man hours it takes to have one ref, watch one player then report his stats to a "judges" table after a game.

Example 2). Compare that , to the amount of time its going to take us players to wait in some line, to hand our markers to some so called tech, only to have to come back and wait in that line again to pick up and pay to get our marker back. The time and effort, and equipment to set those techs up , their booth, their support crew, their tools.

The difference between the two is night and day. Example 1 involves more effort and possibly a little more money from the NPPL (boo fricken hoo, enforce your rules, NOT MAKE MORE!). Example 2 involves, more time, money, effort, and HASSLE on the players part. (as usual, yet, you guys wonder why less and less people are attending these tournies?).

Does it really make sense. Not really. So tell me again, this chip is for "interesting stats" ?? BS to say the least. But nice try, well, not really.

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Old 04-03-2011, 12:02 PM #57
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I dont say i like the chip. it doesnt affect my division. but for people watching on ESPN, the stats are spoken. but the chip is really for the reffs to police the pros. nothing more. Since before in Vegas and last HB, teams were yanked for shooting too fast. Some Ego teams and some BL teams.
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Old 04-04-2011, 01:06 AM #58
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I am going to say i am very impressed with the new hardware by virtue. It is ALOT more then a "anti-cheat hardware" and i would say it is more for some pretty sweet stats on pro players. I doubt divsional will ever see this chip in their guns. This chip opens many possiblities
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Old 04-04-2011, 11:33 AM #59
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I just wanted to clear some things up about this RF chip. There is NO soldering to install the chip it is connected through a 3 way splitter cable from the solenoid. The chip itself has been on the market for 2 years as our RF sync technology to have your gun talk to your loader. So as you can see the hardware is not new, what is new is the virtue ROF-Fi software that receives this information. Stat tracking and anti cheat steps like this is what will launch paintball onto a higher level. I know the coolest stats would be to get kill counts but that's not feasible.

The entire pro division was using these RF chips all weekend with no issues on the performance of the marker, axe, luxe, NT, g6r, vanguard. I with the help of two other virtue employees installed all the chips and monitored the ROF and stats for the weekend. We will compile the data this week and post it for you to see.

On the concern of someone else teching your gun there should be none you can install the chip yourself. And if this ever gets to a divisional rule you will probably be responseable for this.
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Old 04-04-2011, 12:13 PM #60
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The new chip is awesome. For those of you who complain so you cant cheat, stay playing recball. Tourny paintball should be on an even level. Shows true talent and skill. 15bps is fast enough for 7 man, and if your playing psp, your already capped at 12.5 ramping.. Get over it. And i hate to tell you, maybe 5% of paintball players can hit over 15bps truly with no bounce or help from the gun..
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Old 04-04-2011, 02:53 PM #61
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Logically think through why they will never put these chips in divisional guns.

1- No one really cares how much paint was shot over on the d3 field except the players, and they already know.
2-Because the divisional matches are not broadcast what would the NPPL do with the stats? Give them to the players and tell them things they already know?

Those are the 2 biggies.
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Old 04-04-2011, 03:43 PM #62
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Frank the stats will show divisional players how much they shot vs how much they loaded up with then spilled onto the ground or wasted as clearing shots. Every coach that has seen this software loves it.

And I do agree Dave that having stats on kills run through and come backs would be great for the announcers and the sport.
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Old 04-04-2011, 06:01 PM #63
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Its amazing that there is always that one guy that has to complain about something new. You have no idea what you are talking about. This doesn't affect you at all and even if it ends up making its way into the divisional players it would be a good thing. I watched probably 5 guns gets pulled for bouncing in the lower divisions and if they had that software then it never would've happened which would be good for the whole game, it would save the refs from hearing that your gun is legal and that you can shoot 20bps legally, and it would help keep your team from getting a penalty. So maybe you should just let it go. Incase you didn't notice aswell it didn't change the game either there were still teams sweet spotting multiples orb but now it's from actual talent rather than having an extra 7bps+ added on.
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