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Old 11-07-2010, 01:04 AM #1
yodamann
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Any News on HOPPER/loader RESTRICTIONS for 2011

My opinion on the UWL on HOPPER/loader RESTRICTIONS

I would like to see a new design Hopper made for the UWL to make it fair and safe for all paintball players for this league. I would to see KEE Action Sports make a hopper/Loader like a (VL: Revolution 9v & 12v NON force fed) feeds up 12 balls sec. (I really think every player should use the same loader)


what is your opinion/thoughts on the hopper/loader Restrictions for the UWL?

HOPPER RESTRICTIONS for 2009, 2010
For all Class C markers a 9 volt or non electronic loader must be used. A 9 volt loader may not exceed a 15bps feed rate. An approved list of loaders is below.
Tippmann: SSL 200, Cyclone, AL 200, A5 200, A5 Stovepipe
Empire: Reloader & Reloader II
Spyder: Fast 9volt
VL: Revolution 9v & 12v NON force fed, Quantum
Turbo: All
Extreme Rage: Overdrive
Ricochet: AK, 2K, 2KY, Rhino
Q-Loader: Q-Loader
BT: Rip Clip
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Old 11-07-2010, 09:45 AM #2
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empire = KAS (Kee)

reloader/reloader 2 = revvy 9v/18v

The hopper rule is really a moot point, and everyone will always have their preference on what they want to use so limiting it to one hopper I think would create other issues. But on the topic of hoppers for the UWL, the best for the money are the Kingman Fasta 9v and the Revvy/Reloader. The fasta is more like the pinokio (force feed), where the revvy/reloader are agitating loaders. Each has their advantage (fasta = more consistent and higher ROF // Revvy = great for extremely brittle paint) and each has their downside (fasta = no force settings = will shred some types of ultra brittle shell b/c of the impeller spinning into the ball stack // revvy = slower ROF ~11-12 bps, less consistent (feeds with gravity power)).

my .02 on the "modded" hoppers topic though, is that they shouldn't be allowed unless it can be proven to stay within the 15bps range (meaning the modded rotors and pinokio's etc should be tested on an uncapped gun (with a board that can measure peak ROF) to see exactly what they feed. B/c if they feed 18-20, obviously this would create a significant playing difference as you basically end up with a field full of heavy gunners (as I believe most HG set their markers to somewhere in the 17-20 bps range, although a difference in that they mostly play in 3 shot or full auto).

I believe someone was working on a hopper (don't quote me on that) that allows you to switch and "tourney lock" between how fast the hopper feeds. This I think would be a great way to go, and something that is much more reliable/testable/proven. Each hopper has a board in it, and, well if you could take like a prophecy, and switch between a low/high output setting in your settings (low=15bps // high=30+bps-- or maybe even adjustable bps settings) and throw a tourney lock on it so you can't change on the fly... you'd have a real winner.

that turned into a lot more than I thought I was going to type, but hope some of it helps.




hopefully someday it will go the way of the NPPL and then no more worries.

Open
open players = semi uncapped no loader restriction
open heavy gunner = any mode of fire uncapped
sniper = pump/pistol/etc. (same as original)
captain = same as before (regarding 2 man respawn etc)
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Old 11-07-2010, 10:17 AM #3
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Yeah I think eventually when a pro division is instituted that division will likely be uncapped semi auto. With no hopper restrictions. Then that will slowly filter down into the other divisions. Except maybe the tactical division.
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Old 11-07-2010, 08:02 PM #4
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Yeah I think eventually when a pro division is instituted that division will likely be uncapped semi auto. With no hopper restrictions. Then that will slowly filter down into the other divisions. Except maybe the tactical division.
If it does....the league will turn into speedball in the woods.
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Old 11-07-2010, 08:37 PM #5
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Hoot what do you think the open division is? It would only be 2 or 3 bps faster then what it is now.
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Old 11-07-2010, 08:38 PM #6
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If it does....the league will turn into speedball in the woods.
the open division is already shooting 12-15 bps semi.

removing the hopper restriction isn't going to change much of anything.
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Old 11-07-2010, 09:27 PM #7
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Nope I listened to DE vs assasins in the finals and sounded just like an airball match to me.
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Old 11-07-2010, 09:30 PM #8
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I like it how it is... It is a simple fix that requires small amount of monitoring... or none... cuz the players will/can do it.
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Old 11-07-2010, 09:41 PM #9
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yeah thats true. but I still think eventually you will see that rule die once the pro division is in place and it will still slowly filter down. but not until the league has grown alot more then it currently is.

Plus we are realistically talking about the difference between topping out at 15 or topping out at 17bps.
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Old 11-07-2010, 11:54 PM #10
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Quote:
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I listened to DE vs assasins in the finals and sounded just like an airball match to me.
that's a beautiful sound

death to the hopper restriction!
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Old 11-08-2010, 09:06 AM #11
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I like it how it is
<
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Old 11-08-2010, 09:06 AM #12
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I guess I just don't care.

I like having the ability to mod my Rotor so I can use the hopper I like.

I do think that the hopper rule is more complicated that it looks from the outside.

It is not that big a deal to you a 15bps or less stock hopper it just sucks with the durability issues and inconsistent feed rate.

I would like to see it go to something more like the following.

If you have an electronic marker that can have the ROF capped, you cap your gun and have it cleared by a reff as you go on to the field (Same as in speedball) and you can use any hopper you want.

If your gun can not be capped you must use a UWL approved hopper limiting you to under 15 BPS a second.


People want to use the gear they like and will always complain if they cant. If they want to play in the UWL they will use what they have to.

Yes people will do what ever is legal and look for an edge. I think the Rotor/Pinocchio/etc mods give people an edge. ya it is only 1-3 bps edge but still an edge. capping fixes that.
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Old 11-08-2010, 10:34 AM #13
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that's a beautiful sound

death to the hopper restriction!
I guess it's just a difference of opinions. If I wanted to play speedball I would. I prefer woodsball, crawling through the brush, lower rates of fire,etc.

I don't care what anyone says, it's harder to eliminate an opponent if you are shooting 7 bps as opposed to 15 bps. When a player is in thick brush, you shoot a duration of paint into that brush for a fixed amount of time, you double your chance of hitting that player from 7 bps to 15 bps. It's simple math. I enjoy the challenge of lower speeds, but it makes the challenge even greater and almost a handicap when playing against a team that almost exclusively shoots 15 bps (plus Heavy). Guys with the mechs are at a serious disadvantage. With the Skills Division gone, and if hopper restrictions are removed...mechs in this league are going to start disappearing, in which case you've created speedball in the woods. You just replaced balloons for trees.

Again, just a difference in opinions....but to me that would be sad.
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Old 11-08-2010, 11:20 AM #14
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I agree.

I like both and I hope as the league grows Skills will be back.
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Old 11-08-2010, 11:27 AM #15
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I guess I get a little annoyed with the "speedball in the woods" complaints for a couple reasons;
1- I play both genres, and love both.
2- But also, EVERY team I have played against, or watched who claims to be an only woods/scenario team shoots just as much, but usually more paint than me and my team does. The difference is when and how we shoot it.

I understand the whole "challenge" part you refer to, but the challenge you are talking about is only placed on the shooter, not the guy dodging the shots. If anything, a higher ROF makes the game more challenging. Unless you are talking about drastically reducing the ROF by requiring pump only. But that's a different topic.

I suppose I don't really care, I'll support the league with whatever is decided. I'll use a rotor or a revvy.
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Old 11-08-2010, 11:33 AM #16
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And yeah, I'm sad about the skills level gone too. I hope it comes back, you are right about that for sure. I wanted to support it as competitively as I did open, but it's hard to do two divisions at 100%.
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Old 11-08-2010, 11:40 AM #17
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Reading that over again, I sound like an @$$. Sorry for that. I guess that is what I have liked best about the UWL. It has seemed like a great place that has helped bridge the gap between speedball and woodsball. A gap I think should have never existed. It's all paintball.
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Old 11-08-2010, 12:00 PM #18
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I played with a UWL legal loader all day yesterday. The one 9 volt lasted all day but I could tell that is was starting to lose some juice by the end.

To be honest my gun seemed to shoot really fast but that is due to the fact we play at 12.5 BPS 98% of the time.

I think it will be fun to have to tweek some of your gear again. With playing at 12.5 BPS all the time we just drop stock gear on and go. With the way the loader rule is now in the UWL it makes it where the player can keep trying mods to see if they can get a little more out of the gear.
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Old 11-08-2010, 12:04 PM #19
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I guess I get a little annoyed with the "speedball in the woods" complaints for a couple reasons;
1- I play both genres, and love both.
2- But also, EVERY team I have played against, or watched who claims to be an only woods/scenario team shoots just as much, but usually more paint than me and my team does. The difference is when and how we shoot it.

I understand the whole "challenge" part you refer to, but the challenge you are talking about is only placed on the shooter, not the guy dodging the shots. If anything, a higher ROF makes the game more challenging. Unless you are talking about drastically reducing the ROF by requiring pump only. But that's a different topic.

I suppose I don't really care, I'll support the league with whatever is decided. I'll use a rotor or a revvy.
The majority of our team is shooting in the 7-8 bps range (excluding Heavy). At Nationals, we shot 12 cases total for the whole tournie I think. I'm curious how many cases your Open Division team shoots at a tournie?

And as far as the challenge being only on the shooter...that's false. If I'm behind a bush for cover and I take a burst from a guy shooting 7 bps, and then a guy shooting 15 bps...I'm twice as likely to get hit from a ball making its way through the brush with the 15 bps burst. More paint is in the air coming at the bush.
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Old 11-08-2010, 12:21 PM #20
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That's what I mean, so it's more of a challenge for you to dodge the paint from the heavy shooter. But yeah, there's a challenge on both sides of the gun for both sides of the argument. Whatever is decided is fine though. This is not the first time the argument has hit the forums.

Dan will post our paint usage I'm sure. Cause I forget. We did use WAY more than we usually use at finals though.
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Old 11-08-2010, 12:41 PM #21
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I don't have much to say other than I have never liked the term "Speedball in the woods".. Mainly because the history of our "Speedball" is just a generic name for tournament paintball IMO.. Tournaments started in the woods and are returning with the UWL leading the charge. To me speedball just implies that you need to be quick at everything you do ie running, walking the trigger, sliding into your bunkers, crawling in the brush ect...

But as far as the hopper rule.. Honestly I don't see it going anywhere anytime soon... There is a number of hoppers out there still in production that people can buy and most are crazy cheap. The biggest equalizer IMO is that the league is Semi only... I know a lot of people even if they had a rotor couldn't maintain or get their guns going 15bps or much higher.. Yes you will have some but that is part of the tournament.. If you can't walk a trigger get out there and practice.

As far as mech's yes you will never see the rates of fire the elctro's get BUT imo a good mech shoots straighter and with more authority than most electros. That and I don't see skills being gone for more than a season.
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