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Old 07-06-2012, 12:05 PM #1093
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch View Post
Treghc I know you don't actually believe populism is a valid source for truth. If you did, you'd be religious. Slso you'd know that lil Wayne and nickelback are better than rush and that Omar Rodriguez guy.

I picked park or housing track because they were radically different to a forest. Which is what these nations would be without islam. None of it was intended to be analogous to living people.
No, I don't believe populism is a valid source for truth. I believe verification of education and knowledge is very important to consider. Perhaps I worded it incorrectly (writing is not my area of study), but I meant that by allowing anyone to voice an opinion, you have more options to choose from, thus a better chance of providing a more appropriate option. When options are viewed, critiqued, and compared to one another, we are able to conjure up a formidable plan to implement a proper policy. You're also using an analogy of subjective material (music) to compare to a field that can be largely objective (improving the health of people, boosting economic strength, lessening crime rates, etc).

Your second paragraph is a little misrepresentative of what I'm communicating. I'm not asking for the eradication of Islam. I would never wish for such a thing. I'm asking for a critical view of which laws have what effects on individuals. I think we've seen, far too many times throughout history, what happens when a country is ruled by religion. Separating church from state is a fundamental advantage for more equal representation among men and women alike.



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Originally Posted by Vit Beeyer View Post
More than anything mocking this view of religion as totalitarianism. That's just silly and you've done nothing to show that it isn't trolling.
I don't understand. I never said the people were viewed as forms of totalitarianism. I'm saying the Gods presented to us through Abrahamic texts are beings of ultimate, unquestionable authority. The same thing that happens within totalitarian societies; rules without anyone else's say.
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Last edited by Treghc : 07-06-2012 at 12:08 PM.
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Old 07-06-2012, 12:12 PM #1094
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Treghc View Post
No, I don't believe populism is a valid source for truth. I believe verification of education and knowledge is very important to consider. Perhaps I worded it incorrectly (writing is not my area of study), but I meant that by allowing anyone to voice an opinion, you have more options to choose from, thus a better chance of providing a more appropriate option. When options are viewed, critiqued, and compared to one another, we are able to conjure up a formidable plan to implement a proper policy.
Fine and well, but you know this all had nothing to do religion as totalitarianism right?

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Originally Posted by Treghc View Post
Your second paragraph is a little misrepresentative of what I'm communicating. I'm not asking for the eradication of Islam. I would never wish for such a thing. I'm asking for a critical view of which laws have what effects on individuals. I think we've seen, far too many times throughout history, what happens when a country is ruled by religion. Separating church from state is a fundamental advantage for more equal representation among men and women alike.
Is it possible for you to talk about something without injecting your incessant rhetoric? Things grow and change. Islam isn't what is was (by practice) a century ago. Christianity has changed as well (by practice). You said it yourself, they are becoming more tolerant of homosexuals. If none of them want to change and the nation is theocratic, they don't have to. Nothing more needs to be said on this topic. I think we've beaten it to death.
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Old 07-06-2012, 12:38 PM #1095
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Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch View Post
they are becoming more tolerant of homosexuals...
Yea, gona have to step in here and say...BS. No religion is becoming more tolerant of the LGBT community. They are just getting better at hiding their motives and hate behind a flag of "tradition"
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Old 07-06-2012, 12:49 PM #1096
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Yea, gona have to step in here and say...BS. No religion is becoming more tolerant of the LGBT community. They are just getting better at hiding their motives and hate behind a flag of "tradition"
I see you completely ignored the studies I provided for you in another thread...
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Old 07-06-2012, 01:05 PM #1097
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Treghc

I see you completely ignored the studies I provided for you in another thread...
Studies are studies... You can choose to put your apples in that basket, but that doesn't make them any more true.
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Old 07-06-2012, 01:10 PM #1098
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Studies are studies... You can choose to put your apples in that basket, but that doesn't make them any more true.
It provides credibility to a claim. More credibility than a claim backed by no formal evidential critique.
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Old 07-06-2012, 01:58 PM #1099
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Originally Posted by Treghc View Post
It provides credibility to a claim. More credibility than a claim backed by no formal evidential critique.
http://www.philly.com/philly/health/132456883.html

So by that logic, then the new study now PROVES that religion is just fiction, made up by mentaly ill people.
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Old 07-06-2012, 02:21 PM #1100
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Originally Posted by Overbear View Post
http://www.philly.com/philly/health/132456883.html

So by that logic, then the new study now PROVES that religion is just fiction, made up by mentaly ill people.
No it doesn't. That study doesn't even have to do with the origin of religion at all. You continue to be stranger and stranger with your misfiring of synapses.

It also doesn't discredit the fact that I said studies provide support and/or credibility for a claim. I never said it makes the claim absolute.
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Old 07-06-2012, 02:23 PM #1101
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Originally Posted by Umami View Post
When I refer to religion, I am referring to religious institutions. There absolutely are connections between the bureaucratic agencies of religious institutions and authoritarian governments.
And of those in democratic governments, in social democratic governments, in federal republics, in theocracies, in neoliberal governments, and every other form.

Like I said, a meaningless sensationalist statement.
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Old 07-06-2012, 02:24 PM #1102
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Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch View Post
Fine and well, but you know this all had nothing to do religion as totalitarianism right?



Is it possible for you to talk about something without injecting your incessant rhetoric? Things grow and change. Islam isn't what is was (by practice) a century ago. Christianity has changed as well (by practice). You said it yourself, they are becoming more tolerant of homosexuals. If none of them want to change and the nation is theocratic, they don't have to. Nothing more needs to be said on this topic. I think we've beaten it to death.
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Old 07-06-2012, 02:27 PM #1103
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Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch View Post
Is it possible for you to talk about something without injecting your incessant rhetoric? Things grow and change. Islam isn't what is was (by practice) a century ago. Christianity has changed as well (by practice). You said it yourself, they are becoming more tolerant of homosexuals. If none of them want to change and the nation is theocratic, they don't have to. Nothing more needs to be said on this topic. I think we've beaten it to death.
Then why is it wrong for me to suggest a push in a certain direction, as I've been advocating?
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Old 07-06-2012, 02:30 PM #1104
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Because your pushing historically leads to more violence and seclusion.
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Old 07-06-2012, 02:32 PM #1105
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That, and you never recommend anything specific. You simply criticize those of faith with a dose of your rhetoric.
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Old 07-06-2012, 03:04 PM #1106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Treghc

It provides credibility to a claim. More credibility than a claim backed by no formal evidential critique.
I'm not disagreeing with you... But maybe broaden your perspective. What makes a study true? 3rd party perspectives of respected peer's?

Essentially, why does 2+2=4? Because we all say it is? Sound's similar to religion if you ask me.


There is a study, that all studies aren't accurate.
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Old 07-06-2012, 03:40 PM #1107
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Originally Posted by NastE-imp View Post
I'm not disagreeing with you... But maybe broaden your perspective. What makes a study true? 3rd party perspectives of respected peer's?

Essentially, why does 2+2=4? Because we all say it is? Sound's similar to religion if you ask me.


There is a study, that all studies aren't accurate.
Studies are open to critique. Studies can be made to counter previous ones. Never did I say that studies are simply "true" though. I'm simply saying that they lend credibility.

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Because your pushing historically leads to more violence and seclusion.
This seems cyclical... What about women's rights? Black's rights? The progression towards equal rights for gays?

How is pushing for women's rights in an Islamic nation any more detrimental (or any less positive) than the pushing for women's rights in any other country?

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Originally Posted by Vit Beeyer View Post
That, and you never recommend anything specific. You simply criticize those of faith with a dose of your rhetoric.
I'm criticizing those who use faith as their source of validation for governance of others.
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Old 07-06-2012, 03:57 PM #1108
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I see you completely ignored the studies I provided for you in another thread...
He is a lemming impervious to logic, despite the fact that he occasionally holds correct opinions. Leave it alone.
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Old 07-06-2012, 04:04 PM #1109
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Originally Posted by NastE-imp View Post
I'm not disagreeing with you... But maybe broaden your perspective. What makes a study true? 3rd party perspectives of respected peer's?

Essentially, why does 2+2=4? Because we all say it is? Sound's similar to religion if you ask me.


There is a study, that all studies aren't accurate.
2+2=4 because if you add two marbles to two marbles you get four marbles. Pretty self evident, no need for peer review.
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Old 07-06-2012, 04:07 PM #1110
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Then why is it wrong for me to suggest a push in a certain direction, as I've been advocating?

Your rhetoric is off topic. For some reason you feel compelled to push this agenda in every post where it might vaguely apply. Vaguely is not to be taken lightly. We've known how you feel since the get go here. You can stop repeating yourself.

What's wrong with your ad vocations? Nothing

What's wrong with Saudi Arabian theocracy and culture? Nothing.

Now be a good little atheist and accept both of those as true.
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Old 07-06-2012, 04:43 PM #1111
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Originally Posted by NastE-imp View Post
Essentially, why does 2+2=4? Because we all say it is? Sound's similar to religion if you ask me.
2+2 = 4 because of the well-ordering property of natural numbers combined with the second of the definitions in the following subsection:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addition#Natural_numbers

Or any other such definition.

The axioms of mathematics are universal and apparent across cultures, perhaps even species. There is no analogy to religion. Your ignorance on a subject doesn't make it faith-based.
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Old 07-06-2012, 06:03 PM #1112
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Wow... Very close-minded people we have here. No respect on pbnation ever. We should all embrace each other's perspective, instead of hastily critique it.

It's evident religion is kind of a joke. But we need religion, for the inferior-minded to believe in doing good. Could you imagine a world without religion? The crime-rate's, the recklessness, YOLO. So in that regard religion is good. Fictitious or not, we all need something to believe in!

2+2=4 is a cliche argument, sorry if you have no previous knowledge of this. And just see this as a simple math problem

Sorry if you're of the engineering field and see 2+2=4, and can't see out of the box
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Old 07-06-2012, 06:42 PM #1113
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Wow... Very close-minded people we have here. No respect on pbnation ever. We should all embrace each other's perspective, instead of hastily critique it.
Called people closed minded because they called you out on being dumb is a huge cop out. You don't get respect unless you earn it, it's not just implied that you can say whatever "your perspective" is and people will respect it without critique.

Closed minded is a stupider defense than saying, "well thats just like... your opinion man." Make a better argument to defend yourself or get used to being abused. Until then you are just some 8 year old with keyboard for all that we know.
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